I might WM/Invul- seems pretty brutish. Same basic theory but ss/wp works as well.
Has to be Super Strength.
Claws/Willpower.
all of those are wrong, especially stone/dark for tanking, seriously, that combo just makes it sound like you hate yourself.
I mean really. Since when has emp been the posterboy for defenders. Seriously, there are so many better choices than sonic like rad/, cold/, kin/. Not that sonic is bad, just not the overachiever you seem to be making it out to be.
seriously tho, there are no "ATest of the AT" or whatever the hell you stated it to be. It comes off almost as obnoxious as "whats the most survivable Tanker/Brute set".
The different powersets within each AT are just different flavors of a certain playstyle. You can be just as "Brutish" with any of the sets if you play them like a brute, the problems come when people try to play a brute like a tank. It's further exacerbated when people expect Brutes to be tanks.
Just roll a set you think looks fun, or looks challenging. If you learn to play it right, it will be the "ATest of the AT" all on its lonesome. Otherwise you are just trying to force yourself to play a toon you may despise, at which point you do everyone a disservice, and look like a tool to boot.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
all of those are wrong, especially stone/dark for tanking, seriously, that combo just makes it sound like you hate yourself.
I mean really. Since when has emp been the posterboy for defenders. Seriously, there are so many better choices than sonic like rad/, cold/, kin/. Not that sonic is bad, just not the overachiever you seem to be making it out to be. seriously tho, there are no "ATest of the AT" or whatever the hell you stated it to be. It comes off almost as obnoxious as "whats the most survivable Tanker/Brute set". The different powersets within each AT are just different flavors of a certain playstyle. You can be just as "Brutish" with any of the sets if you play them like a brute, the problems come when people try to play a brute like a tank. It's further exacerbated when people expect Brutes to be tanks. Just roll a set you think looks fun, or looks challenging. If you learn to play it right, it will be the "ATest of the AT" all on its lonesome. Otherwise you are just trying to force yourself to play a toon you may despise, at which point you do everyone a disservice, and look like a tool to boot. |
Well said.
SS/stone
Definately BA/WP
or WM/inuln
Stone Melee/Shields
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what is this i dont even
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Originally Posted by Trashman
Scrapper-BS/Regen-BS is a boss killer, which I believe that scrappers should specialize in, as they are supposed to be one on one killers. . |
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i must disagree with you here. every AT has a specific role on the team, and while you are correct in saying that every blaster can be a good blaster, there are some powersets that can be played in a very non-blaster fashion, and there are some that epitomize the idea of a blaster better then others. a blasters job is to throw out damage as fast as possible and for that a fire/fire is by far the best. every other powerset dishes out less damage for the sake of better survivability. |
Originally Posted by _Deth_
all of those are wrong, especially stone/dark for tanking, seriously, that combo just makes it sound like you hate yourself.
I mean really. Since when has emp been the posterboy for defenders. Seriously, there are so many better choices than sonic like rad/, cold/, kin/. Not that sonic is bad, just not the overachiever you seem to be making it out to be. seriously tho, there are no "ATest of the AT" or whatever the hell you stated it to be. It comes off almost as obnoxious as "whats the most survivable Tanker/Brute set". The different powersets within each AT are just different flavors of a certain playstyle. You can be just as "Brutish" with any of the sets if you play them like a brute, the problems come when people try to play a brute like a tank. It's further exacerbated when people expect Brutes to be tanks. Just roll a set you think looks fun, or looks challenging. If you learn to play it right, it will be the "ATest of the AT" all on its lonesome. Otherwise you are just trying to force yourself to play a toon you may despise, at which point you do everyone a disservice, and look like a tool to boot. |
that being said, i also agree that some of the choices of the OP might be a bit off, mostly in the area of the tank. while it is true that stone/ has the best potential for defense, defense alone isn't, IMHO, the only goal of a tank. a tanks job it to grab, hold, and survive as much agro as possible, and in that regard i don't think there is anything better then an ice/ tank. ice/ tanks get the best PBAoE debuff in the game as well as a damage aura to get and keep agro with some pretty decent defense to boot.
anyway, on to your brute question. a brutes goal is a cross between blasters and tanks, they're job is to kill things as fast as possible while staying alive for as long as possible in order to build up as much fury as they can. in that regard i'd have to say the brutiest brute would be fire/willpower. fire, again, is all about dealing the most possible damage, and willpower lets you heal faster the more enemies there are around you (up to 10) which, combined with lots of hit points, is more useful to a brute then anyone else.
I'll offer my ideas/thoughts of the poster children for the whole AT spectrum. Keep in mind, these are "poster children" not "most numerically superior" choices. These are the combos that come to mind when I think what exemplifies X AT, and why.
Scrapper - Claws/SR. Hits hard and fast, tough as nails
Blaster - Fire/Energy. Ranged AoE death, great melee and utility
Controller - Mind/Rad. Controls the battle and weakens the enemy in so many ways
Defender - Emp/Sonic. The buffs in Emp are simply amazing. Sonic adds damage with -res
Tank - Invuln/SS. Takes it in and dishes it out in spades. Works thematically and in practice
Stalker - Energy/Ninjitsu. Great burst, can scrap, tailor made secondary
Corruptor - Fire/Dark. Debuffs and controls the enemies, burns them wholesale.
Dominator - Plant/Fire. Tailor made (and awesome) primary, all damage secondary
Brute - SS/Fire. Burn, smash and wreck everything that comes near you. Damage, damage damage! No finesse, no technique. You're strong, you're angry, and you're ON FIRE! LITERALLY!
Mastermind - Bots/Traps. Construct mindless minions that do your every bidding without question and use insidious devices to control/debuff/blow up your enemy and buff your army.
With regards to tankers:
He said all defense and no offense; Stone Armor, Ice Armor, Dark Armor while being the best at survivability and aggro control, all have an offensive damage aura. You want to look at Invuln or WP or Shield for a set that is 'all defense and no offense'. That said, an Ice/SS tanker would be my vote for the tankiest tanker, with Dark/SS and Stone/SS coming in close behind.
As for brutes - anything really. The brutiest brute is the brute that brutes the in the brutiest fashion, powersets be damned.
my latest project might fit in the catergory of brutiest brute, I decided to try and make the toughest brute I could think of while also dishing out damage. I came up with an electrical melee/Stone brute.
With Granite running he is at 45% defense to S/L/E/N/F/C
85% Resistance to smashing/lethal
57-67% Resistance to all else but psi
can run at 20 miles an hour in granite
has only -5% recharge debuff (Granite - set bonuses)
outside of granite he is nearly capped for S/L and Psionic, with tons of +rech 
He is lvl 35 now, having a ton of fun with him 
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
Brutisch Style? All Combinations can perform well, but from a RP and Style point of view:
A Brute is a huge, brutal and agressive Warmachine.
A Brute doesn't pay too much Attention to his Health and Endurance and fights all the time.
A Brute hates downtimes btw. the Fights.
It doesn't matter for a Brute if he faces 1 or 10 Enemies, he goes straight in.
A Brute is not an agile and neat fighter as a Scrapper, more a Bam-Boom-Bam Machine.
1. WP will suit this well. You can fight all the Time.
2. SD thanks to Shield Charge and AAO for a more brutal Brute, but it needs some Setboni.
3. Invul? OK.
1. SS-BamBooomBam...YES
2. Stone Melee-Boom...Booom...Boooom...YES
3. War Mace-BadaBoom..YES
My personal View.
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You clearly don't understand Stone armor and Shield Defense if you rank Stone armor as offensive in nature and Shield Defense as no offense. Stone's damage armor is more than mitigated by Granite's damage debuff and Shield Defense is probably one of the most offensive defensive sets with AAO and Shield Charge.
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Originally Posted by Rockblood
With regards to tankers:
He said all defense and no offense; Stone Armor, Ice Armor, Dark Armor while being the best at survivability and aggro control, all have an offensive damage aura. You want to look at Invuln or WP or Shield for a set that is 'all defense and no offense'. That said, an Ice/SS tanker would be my vote for the tankiest tanker, with Dark/SS and Stone/SS coming in close behind. . |
@SBeaudway on Pinnacle, TaskForce Titans Supergroup.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I'll offer my ideas/thoughts of the poster children for the whole AT spectrum. Keep in mind, these are "poster children" not "most numerically superior" choices. These are the combos that come to mind when I think what exemplifies X AT, and why.
Scrapper - Claws/SR. Hits hard and fast, tough as nails Blaster - Fire/Energy. Ranged AoE death, great melee and utility Controller - Mind/Rad. Controls the battle and weakens the enemy in so many ways Defender - Emp/Sonic. The buffs in Emp are simply amazing. Sonic adds damage with -res Tank - Invuln/SS. Takes it in and dishes it out in spades. Works thematically and in practice Stalker - Energy/Ninjitsu. Great burst, can scrap, tailor made secondary Corruptor - Fire/Dark. Debuffs and controls the enemies, burns them wholesale. Dominator - Plant/Fire. Tailor made (and awesome) primary, all damage secondary Brute - SS/Fire. Burn, smash and wreck everything that comes near you. Damage, damage damage! No finesse, no technique. You're strong, you're angry, and you're ON FIRE! LITERALLY! Mastermind - Bots/Traps. Construct mindless minions that do your every bidding without question and use insidious devices to control/debuff/blow up your enemy and buff your army. |
im still laughing about that brute description
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They dont dish out less for the sake of survivability, fire dishes out more for the sake of survivability, i.e. you kill it before it kills you. This is why fire tanks are so "squishy".|
Originally Posted by Daystar_NA
i must disagree with you here. every AT has a specific role on the team, and while you are correct in saying that every blaster can be a good blaster, there are some powersets that can be played in a very non-blaster fashion, and there are some that epitomize the idea of a blaster better then others. a blasters job is to throw out damage as fast as possible and for that a fire/fire is by far the best. every other powerset dishes out less damage for the sake of better survivability.
that being said, i also agree that some of the choices of the OP might be a bit off, mostly in the area of the tank. while it is true that stone/ has the best potential for defense, defense alone isn't, IMHO, the only goal of a tank. a tanks job it to grab, hold, and survive as much agro as possible, and in that regard i don't think there is anything better then an ice/ tank. ice/ tanks get the best PBAoE debuff in the game as well as a damage aura to get and keep agro with some pretty decent defense to boot. anyway, on to your brute question. a brutes goal is a cross between blasters and tanks, they're job is to kill things as fast as possible while staying alive for as long as possible in order to build up as much fury as they can. in that regard i'd have to say the brutiest brute would be fire/willpower. fire, again, is all about dealing the most possible damage, and willpower lets you heal faster the more enemies there are around you (up to 10) which, combined with lots of hit points, is more useful to a brute then anyone else. |
Ice Armor? Really? Yeah, i like Ice Armor, it is a solid set, and very capable, but it is one of the few powersets in the game that really needs another look for it's purpose. It has great mitigation, and nice debuffs, but for pure survivability, compared to the other sets, it is kind of lacking. It is centered more on S/L defense, and is lacking in resistance. That is the tradeoff for all the soft control it gets.
and that goes back to my original point. before you take into account IOs, all of the sets are pretty balanced, if you learn them and learn to play them well. They all have weaknesses, and they all have tradeoffs. Too many people look at one stat, and that becomes the be all end all. It's like people that say they need specific ATs for certain encounters, when the fact is, this game was not centered around the holy trinity of MMOs. If it were, all controller, or even more to the point, all scrapper STFs wouldn't be possible.
oh yeah, and if you need tanker level survivability to build fury, you are doing it wrong.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
First off, thank you to all who responded. You have given me great ideas.
With regards to my critics, who I actually think have brought me alot of information and opinions that I wanted, I'm not trying to build the "best" of each AT. I am well aware there is no such thing. For example, my fire/fire blaster, which is the only one out of that list that I actually leveled and is the only one that is set in my decision (all the others of course can change, I'll probably ask that specific board when the time comes about what powerset they would recommend), isn't the best. Yes, in a vacuum he will outdamage most if not all other blasters in just pure numbers. But real life is no where close to a vacuum so when it all evens out I end up doing the same or even less damage than the blasters who have more utility or survivability. But the point is, that was the character concept I wanted to follow. I'm definitely not the best blaster. I just believe I fit the description the best, even if it is a detriment to me.
And yes, I appreciate all of the other who have commented on my selection for heroes, but as I don't want this thread to get derailed, don't worry about that list. Those were just examples to give you an idea of what I was talking about. I would be very surprised if any of them didn't change.
So back to the topic at hand, WP does seem the most brutey. I liked Atago's description of a brute and what he does. I prefer not to think of brutes as a cross between tanks and blasters but just as brutes, and what he described seemed to me to fit what a brute does. WP is probably going to be my choice but as far as primary goes I still am looking at SS but BA sounds very appealing. The thought of just some guy picking up an axe and going hog wild on everyone is too much to pass up.
Again, thank you everyone for helping me with this, admittedly, not very important decision. But I find it very interested just from reading this what people think brutes should be.
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You're right, I forgot that Shield has a +damage aura. That removes it from the 'all defense, no offense' camp.|
Originally Posted by SBeaudway
You clearly don't understand Stone armor and Shield Defense if you rank Stone armor as offensive in nature and Shield Defense as no offense. Stone's damage armor is more than mitigated by Granite's damage debuff and Shield Defense is probably one of the most offensive defensive sets with AAO and Shield Charge.
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Also, I never said that Stone is offensive in nature. I said that it has an offensive aura, which removes it from the 'all defense, no offense' camp. It doesn't matter that Granite would reduce the damage of the aura, the fact is that the aura still does damage and thus, Stone cannot be classified as 'purely defensive'.
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I'd go for WM and not BA. It has better weapon customization options and it works better when you think about the 'dude who grabs a pipe/bat/shovel and starts breaking faces'.
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Originally Posted by Trashman
WP is probably going to be my choice but as far as primary goes I still am looking at SS but BA sounds very appealing. The thought of just some guy picking up an axe and going hog wild on everyone is too much to pass up.
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I just wanted to say that I was reading the OP's lists and reasons and coming up with my own. You're list almost matches it perfectly.|
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I'll offer my ideas/thoughts of the poster children for the whole AT spectrum. Keep in mind, these are "poster children" not "most numerically superior" choices. These are the combos that come to mind when I think what exemplifies X AT, and why.
Scrapper - Claws/SR. Hits hard and fast, tough as nails Blaster - Fire/Energy. Ranged AoE death, great melee and utility Controller - Mind/Rad. Controls the battle and weakens the enemy in so many ways Defender - Emp/Sonic. The buffs in Emp are simply amazing. Sonic adds damage with -res Tank - Invuln/SS. Takes it in and dishes it out in spades. Works thematically and in practice Stalker - Energy/Ninjitsu. Great burst, can scrap, tailor made secondary Corruptor - Fire/Dark. Debuffs and controls the enemies, burns them wholesale. Dominator - Plant/Fire. Tailor made (and awesome) primary, all damage secondary Brute - SS/Fire. Burn, smash and wreck everything that comes near you. Damage, damage damage! No finesse, no technique. You're strong, you're angry, and you're ON FIRE! LITERALLY! Mastermind - Bots/Traps. Construct mindless minions that do your every bidding without question and use insidious devices to control/debuff/blow up your enemy and buff your army. |
I think the only difference was controller : Earth/Storm and Dominator : Mind/Fire. (Though Plant/Fire is so much more awesome)
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I'll agree with Earth/Storm being the quintessential controller controller. But I gotta go with Neogumbercules on Plant/Fire. It's just one of the most awesome Dominators out there. Fast, simple, blooms early and stays strong through the whole game. And Plant used to be a unique Dominator set.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I just wanted to say that I was reading the OP's lists and reasons and coming up with my own. You're list almost matches it perfectly.
I think the only difference was controller : Earth/Storm and Dominator : Mind/Fire. (Though Plant/Fire is so much more awesome) |
My main brute (and brutes are my favorite AT) is a SS/WP. As with any build, the enhancers can do a lot to change how the toon is played. Not knowing what I was doing, I threw on 4 sets of purples, along with some other expensive crap. Not the best build out, but has a good amount of global rech. Therefore I regularly run double rage. If I can survive the combat (generally yes, but we all know WP is not the tankiest set) I am usually one of the meanest toons on the team. Global rech also brings up footstomp and great attack chains very fast. When I do drop, WP lets me rise again. A very fun toon to play. Although the reason I am trolling the forums today is to come up with a different toon for Praetoria.
Tried Kin Melee, impressive, yet also problematic. (I am spoiled) The buff is only for 20 seconds (but you can stack it 5 times!) To my way of math that is all you are doing the entire game, even with enough rech to get 5 going. buff, buff, buff, buff, buff, wait the 1st one is wearing off, buff, buff, .....
I am seriously looking at Dark Melee, a late blooming set with a ton of power played right. Now just trying to pair it right.
When I think brutes I think claws. Ripping things apart with the brutal ferocity of a wild animal, spinning and thrashing about with total disregard of anyone else around you.
The Bacon Compels You.
Greetings I am a long time player who just recently reactivated, not because of Going Rogue, but because I felt like it. In fact I wasn't aware of Going Rogue until after I activated.
Anyway, so my quest in this game is to make the AT-est AT of each...AT. It's not necessarily the most efficient, for I find builds only built for efficiency to take the fun out of the game for me. I am pretty much set on what I want with heroes. I will give you an example of my heroside plans just to give you a general idea of what I want.
Blaster-Fire/Fire. Blasters in theory are supposed to be glass cannons who can destroy entire cities if they don't die. So in this respect I chose fire/fire, ignoring any defenses I may have and taking any sort of thing that might cause damage (ie: Hotfeet and Burning Aura, which in all regards are taunt auras) and slotting IOs Primarily for damage, Secondarily for Recharge, and avoiding defense.
Controller-Earth/TA-Simple, it offers a crazy amount of control. I also plan on getting presence so I can fear them.
Defender-Sonic/Sonic-Sonic/ seems to have the most to offer a team. While emps are considered the poster child of defenders, they don't offer debuffs, which I believe is what defenders should do as well.
Scrapper-BS/Regen-BS is a boss killer, which I believe that scrappers should specialize in, as they are supposed to be one on one killers.
Tanker-Stone/Dark-Stone of course is all defense no offense and dark for the recharging heal that it gets plus the -tohit.
As you can see, while some, like the scrapper, would be efficient, I plan on only strengthening my strengths and ignoring my weaknesses so they continue to be a problem, which in turn makes the game more fun to have that risk of death.
So now, I ask you, the bruting community, what the brutiest brute is. I was considering SS/WP since it seems that nothing is more brutish than some strong guy who is too dumb to know he is hit. If you have any other suggestions let me know. Also, if you could give an explanation of what you think a brute's role on a team should be (obviously not a true tank, but not a scrapper, but a brute). Finally, if you can suggest what to aim for slotting purposes (just general, I don't need actual builds) in IOs that would be wonderful.
Anyway, take care, and thank you for all your help.