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Quote:Energy/Energy is fine solo. Those stuns really add up. Also, Energy Transfer's damage to self can be mitigated with Energy Drain (all the heal is good for). Frankly I'd say EM/EA isn't really any worse off than EM/SR... in fact, by my own personal preference scaled I'd rate it higher because EA has toggle mez protection. Not that either is a GOOD combo.
No, what you need to do is grab a lethal damage inflicting low mitigation primary and pair it with energy armor to watch the suck accumulate. Dual Blades comes to mind.
Were it ported I'd say spines/ea.
Hm? Dual Blades has a ST Knock-Up and two AE knockdowns. I wouldn't call it low mitigation by any means. The damage is all lethal, but the Attack Vitals combo is ridiculous DPS (and spammable out of the box). -
I think OP is saying that the free respec coming in i19 will allow you to respec into a Stamina-less build, so there's no reason not to start playing a new character now (just take Fitness, as usual and respec later).
But I'll have to echo the 'too-many-characters-to-respec-in-i19' problem. Respeccing is an annoying process and many people will have to do it several times, in a row. It will get tedious. -
Pretty much what the other guy said. I build for about 30% S/L defense to get into a comfortable zone and then go for recharge the rest of the way. How much recharge depends on the set combinations, but the defense is always the first order of business. I dislike dying and S/L defense is pretty easy to get these days.
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Quote:I agree with this assessment. However, if you have enough money to blow on IOs and get to the S/L defense softcap, the list changes from 'which is most durable', to 'which is cheapest'.DA has a few issues with taking burst damage from stuff like AV's. Yes, it has Psi resists, but people often forget that Dull Pain is essentially the equivalent of 40% Psi resists.
And Inv has End Drain resist these days. Not a ton, but still some. Inv's lower end costs compared to DA's end drain resist essentially cancel each other out.
Overall, for toughness and survability, here is where I would put the sets...
1. Stone. Easily the toughest of all sets, but sacrifices ALOT to get there, and is ugly as hell.
2. Inv. My personal favorite. Really starts shining when you invest in IO's, and becomes next to unkillable.
3. WP. The easiest set to level, but is *extremely* susceptible to regen debuffs and high burst damage.
4. DA. Weak to burst damage, but fantastic against swarms of minions. Best self rez in case things get really dicey.
Invuln and Stone don't require much. In-built defensive toggles and if you decide to dip into Weave, you can hit the 45% mark with only one or two Kinetic Combat sets.
Invuln has pretty decent debuff resists, but nothing spectacular. Most of it is found in the passive resist powers. Unstoppable will, for a time, make you feel like a God. However, I could never play an invuln brute, because I always found it to be better on a tanker (my opinion, pinch of salt). As a side note, I have an Inv/EM tanker at 50 (my 3rd 50).
Stone also has pretty good debuff resists. Defense debuff from Rock Armor and Crystal Armor (I think), and END drain from Rooted. Minerals gives you Psi defense and +perception (nifty against Arachnos). If I were to create a Stone Armor brute, I would build him to work without Granite. Pump up the defense numbers to soft-cap, get enough runspeed bonuses to negate Rooted's penalty and use Granite only as an 'oh-snap' toggle. IT might be easy to negate Granite's movespeed penalty, but you still can't jump or hover, you suffer a 65% recharge penalty (which is *really* expensive to negate) and a 30% damage penalty (mostly negated by Fury). On a side note, I have a Stone/SS tanker at 50 (my first), building towards the non-Granite playstyle.
WP will require 5 Kinetic Combat sets. I have a DB/WP brute at 47, created on GR launch. I have 4 Kinetic Combat sets, Weave and CJ. I basically stopped dying at around level 30, even when I'm at aggro-cap and have two elite bosses pounding on me (part of it is soft-mitigation from DB, though). With enough defense (I found 30% to be the majic number), your regen will keep you alive through seemingly impossible situations. You are, however, susceptible to debuffs that go through your defense (WP has negligible debuff resists). It does, however, have good psi defense and psi resists, along with +perception (again, nifty against Arachnos).
DA I don't have much experience with, although you can find many supporters on the forums. It has a pretty comprehensive list of non-damage resistances, which is always nice. I'll have to let someone else talk about DA. -
Fantastic song, btw.
I'd go with WP or Invuln. They mature early and only get better with IOs. I cannot stress enough how Stone's survivability can cripple you in other areas.
In keeping with the pace of the song, however, I'd go with WP and a fast-attacking primary. Claws, or Dual Blades, or Super Strength. -
I have to add my vote to DB/WP.
Although I'm also going to second the ANYTHING/WP suggestion. -
Quote:I've played a DM/EA brute to 32. I know how much Siphon Life can help you live longer. I just don't agree that it's an 'impressive' self-heal. Besides, as Invuln, you already have Dull Pain. Siphon Life will be just the icing that keeps your cake at full HP.Uhm...first off....DM's heal is actually VERY impressive, especially if you were to actually slot it FOR healing. If you don't call a 20% heal every 5.5 seconds (without Hasten!!!) from a PRIMARY set impressive....then I don't know what is.
Also...what on earth do you mean by Soul Drain and +Recharge?!? Soul Drain is NOT a +recharge enhancing power, it's a +dmg/+tohit buff, which is amazing for DM's total damage output, especially on large teams.
To the OP, just go with what you think you'd find more conceptually appealing. Both DM/WP and DM/Invln will be absolute powerhouses. Paired with DM, neither can go wrong. Personally, I lean more towards WP, simply because it gives you better endurance management to help you keep on chuggin without much pause, but Invuln can definitely reach insane levels of survivability, especially when paired with DM, and thanks to new Epic Pools such as Energy Mastery, endurance problems should be all but null, even without DC.
So go with what looks most fun to you and enjoy the ride
By Soul Drain and +recharge, I meant that having recharge boosting powers/IOs would allow you to use Soul Drain (and Dull Pain and Unstoppable) more often. -
Quote:I wouldn't say Stone is the worst tanking set. With IOs, you could easily counteract the penalties you'd get from being in Granite, which makes you tough as all hell. WP, however, has a really crappy aggro aura, but has very good all-round survivability.BS/Regen is a bad combo. Regen is a bad set period. Claws/regen, Dark/regen maybe. If you want a good blaster build try dp/mm. Trollers Grav/Rads, defenders Ice/Son as a debuffer. Empath for any healing and buffing. Stone tanking is the worst tanking set in the game. Your uber power lets you turn into a big piece of granite, your slow as hell, and your damage is gimped. My sg has a no stone tanker rule, but I am not sure about that. If you want a good tanking combo try wp/anything, SD/SS, I heard fire was good and now we get to brute.
SS isn't all that because its smashing and lethal and most anything has resist to smashing and lethal. Its a fun set though. I don't see brutes as stupid morons. Brutes generate rage when they fight but they could be translated in battle lust, or something else. SS/SD is a good combo, dark/sd has good synergy. Fire/fire is good etc. Play around with some of the other stuff is advisable. brute offense/wp is good because you can stack qr with stam and keep that rage full.
I'd go with Ice or Dark for 'best' tanking primary. Good survivability, great aggro control, which only gets emphasized with IOs.
SS is a favorite because of Rage and Footstomp (best PBAoE in the game, due to its ridiculously large range). It might do only S/L damage, but no one really cares, in the long run. But in any case WP is probably the 'brutiest' secondary, concept-wise. Something about being too stubborn/thickheaded/stupid to go down like a normal man is very brute-like. Also, the fire-and-forget nature of WP fits into the whole 'offense first, defense maybe later' approach of brutes. -
Quote:And I wouldn't call DM's self-heal capabilities 'impressive' by any means.Wait...what?
Willpower lacks a self heal.
Invulnerability has Dull Pain.
However, DM does have Soul Drain. WP does not benefit from +recharge at all, while Inv has Dull Pain and Unstoppable. There's more synergy between DM and Inv in terms of recharge.
On the other hand, DM's to-hit debuffs will stack up nicely with the to-hit debuff in RttC.
At the end, it all comes down to which playstyle you'd prefer. -
I just rolled an Elec/Fire myself a few days ago and me and my friend were tweaking the build to achieve basically everything you're asking for.
I'm in the office, so I don't have access to Mid's (yay, productivity!), but off the top of my head, the basic details are:
5-slot all your AoE powers (Thunderstrike, Burn, Blazing Aura, LR) with Obliteration. Add a 6th Obliteration to LR and Burn, drop a Force Feedback +Recharge IO into Thunderstrike, and an EndRdx Common into Blazing Aura.
You'll need to grab Hasten, Combat Jumping, Hover and the Fighting Pool. 4-slot all Resistance Armors with Reactive Armor and drop an LotG +Recharge IO into the three defensive powers you now have. One of your resist powers will have a 5th slot for the Steadfast Protection Unique (+3% defense). I'm using a Karma KB Protection IO, so I have an extra slot in Combat Jumping. Obviously, this slot can be shifted around, based on which of the KB Protection IOs you have.
I picked up every Elec Melee power except for Jacob's Ladder (I hate it) and Lightning Clap (useless). I skipped Fiery Embrace, Rise of the Phoenix and Temperature Protection from FA (I will pick them up in i19, however). As usual, all single-target attacks are 4-slotted with Kinetic Combat (except Boxing, so I only have 3 Kinetic Combats sets in the build). I picked up Mu Mastery, so Mu Lightning is 5-slotted with Decimation for more Recharge. The cone and the AoE are 5-slotted with Positron's Blast.
This post is getting a bit long, so I'll tell you the results:
32.9% S/L defense, 140% Recharge (15 seconds away from perma-hasten). No purples or PvP IOs in the build. Didn't really check the HP numbers (and the regen isn't much to write home about - about 175% I think). The END usage might be an issue, but I have my hands on a Numina Unique (yay, Hero Merits!) and the end drain from Elec might help.
I'll post the Mid's build later when I get home. -
What I tend to do with my attacks (assuming that I'm 4-slotting Kinetic Combats, as you are), is to fill a 5th slot with a Mocking Beratement Acc/Rech IO.
Recharge, for WP, is purely for DPS (WP has no powers that benefit from improved Recharge). That said, I would aim for the softcap first and worry about perma-hasten later. Bear in mind that perma-hasten will easily break your 100 million budget (like, by a lot).
I would suggest a different Epic power pool. One of the PPPs will give you access to more AoE attacks, which is always nice. Also, slotting Obliteration in said AoE powers will give you more S/L defense and recharge. I don't have much experience with the PPPs myself, but I'd suggest Mu or Soul Mastery (I'm sure most will suggest the same).
Other than that, the IO build Twilight_Snow suggested is a good starting point. -
Brute. You'll appreciate the higher damage output.
I rolled a WP/KM tanker the day GR rolled. Spent a day or two to get him to 24 and never touched him again. It kinda sucks when all you have is 3 single-target attacks, an unreliable cone (that knocks back, blegh) and no proper AoE until 28.
On the plus side, as a WP tanker, you'll literally never die.*
*The same could apply to a WP brute, depending on what difficulty level you solo at. -
Quote:Well, I would like to have fun with him and do TFs/SFs and other stuff. So a 'feeder of influence' wouldn't be the most accurate description. Also, I have never used a PPP before, so I'd like to take that opportunity with this character (leaning towards Soul Mastery for Darkest Night).Invuln is a good, and well documented secondary for brutes... There are any number of guides.
You need to define farmer... Is this guys' only job to feed inf to your other toons?
If so then any AE primary SS, Ele, Fire with WP. You're not gonna get a cheaper, easier, fotm brute farmer than willpower. Anything else will take inf, some thought, and some set IO's.
Kinda defeats the purpose of a "farmer toon" to heavily invest in it eh?
Also, my experience with Hero Merits tells me that difficult-to-obtain IOs are not that difficult to obtain anymore, which will ease the build process.
But I understand where you're coming from and /WP was my first instinct as well. However, I had just leveled a /WP brute and the experience would have been much too familiar for me to enjoy the character fully.
I'm leaning towards /Inv, as its something I'm comfortable with and I know what I can and cannot face (or need to face with insps). A friend suggested /fire because the potential for face-melting was great (in fact, he got really excited about the idea). Yet another suggested /stone, though he couldn't elaborate (he heard it was a popular combination with elec melee a while back).
Does anyone have any experience with an Elec/Fire brute or seen one in action? I've played FA tankers before (before the change to Burn and FE) and found it to be a relatively painful journey. I can only imagine that the relative squishiness of /Fire can be mitigated by a Brute's higher damage output.
Also, I hate being one of those posters who don't really know what they want and only come onto the forums for validation of their choices. -
Quote:The Hulk.When I think of a "Brute", I don't think of magical fire, or roiling clouds of
dark, underworld fumes, or a Mudslide Mountain come to life.
No sir.
I think of a mountain-like, biggest, baddest 400+ pound 6'8" NFL lineman
or a WWE wrestler, or humongous Russian Heavyweight Olympic Weightlifter,
hopped up on as many roids as he can eat, pounding you with a huge ham
fist into a thin gooey paste, all the while, laughing maniacially...
Something like Refrigerator Perry huge / Lawrence Taylor mean / James
Bond's - "Jaws" imposing, all rolled into one guy.
Yeah - I think of an SS/WP Brute... Now *that*, to me, is pure SMASH.
Cheers,
4
'Nuff said. -
So, I came back to the game after a year away to try out GR. All my friends came back and I've been having fun with the game since.
First, some basic play history. Skip this bit and scroll down to the end if you don't care.
My only 50s are a Stone tanker, an Invuln tanker and a Claws/WP scrapper. The tankers are hardcore survivability, aggro control, no damage characters. The scrapper is a pretty basic, common-IO type of character. So when I logged to Praetoria, the first character I rolled was a WP/KM tanker, unsurprising to any of my friends. I got him to about 24 or so in the first couple of days (perma-team of 5 guys). However, since GR rolled out, my undying love for tankers has died, just a bit. Why?
I created a DB/WP brute. My almost-exclusive playing of tankers was quickly replaced by an addiction to brutes (they're basically everything tankers are, but with more damage!). In a space of three weeks, that DB/WP brute got to 47, mostly solo-ing, and Hero Merits are providing me with all the expensive IOs I needed to softcap his S/L defense (she's at about 40% now, just need a couple more Kinetic Combats).
This is currently the highest-level brute I have. Before GR, I managed to get an SS/DA brute to 31 and a DM/EA brute to 27. However, I preferred Paragon City over Rogue Isles and would always prefer to play CoH over CoV, which limited my Brute play. All that changed with GR, which explains how my current DB brute has leveled so fast.
*Important Bit Here*
But meaningless backstory aside, I come to these boards to ask a question. In all my time in CoH, I have never had a 'farming' character. I figure this is probably a good time to create one. I've narrowed down my choice of primary - Elec. What I need is a suggestion for a secondary. I'd like something survivable, which prompted my decision to roll an Elec/Inv brute (currently level 18) and I also didn't want to roll another /WP brute so soon.
Is Inv any good for a 'farming' character? Or should I go with something that has more damage, like /Fire or /Elec? I'd rather not play /SD, for aesthetic reasons (I only play /SD with weapon sets).
tl;dr - What secondary goes well with Elec Melee for the purposes of farming (/SD and /WP are non-options)? Should I just stick with Invuln? -
My Brute has Taunt so he can six-slot it with Perfect Zinger and get 3% S/L defense.
But it's not even on my bars. -
I'd go for WM and not BA. It has better weapon customization options and it works better when you think about the 'dude who grabs a pipe/bat/shovel and starts breaking faces'.
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Quote:You're right, I forgot that Shield has a +damage aura. That removes it from the 'all defense, no offense' camp.You clearly don't understand Stone armor and Shield Defense if you rank Stone armor as offensive in nature and Shield Defense as no offense. Stone's damage armor is more than mitigated by Granite's damage debuff and Shield Defense is probably one of the most offensive defensive sets with AAO and Shield Charge.
Also, I never said that Stone is offensive in nature. I said that it has an offensive aura, which removes it from the 'all defense, no offense' camp. It doesn't matter that Granite would reduce the damage of the aura, the fact is that the aura still does damage and thus, Stone cannot be classified as 'purely defensive'. -
With regards to tankers:
He said all defense and no offense; Stone Armor, Ice Armor, Dark Armor while being the best at survivability and aggro control, all have an offensive damage aura. You want to look at Invuln or WP or Shield for a set that is 'all defense and no offense'. That said, an Ice/SS tanker would be my vote for the tankiest tanker, with Dark/SS and Stone/SS coming in close behind.
As for brutes - anything really. The brutiest brute is the brute that brutes the in the brutiest fashion, powersets be damned. -
I have two tankers at 50 - an Invuln/EM and a Stone/SS. Both of them have Weave. I take it to hit the soft cap and be relatively unkillable. Neither of them have self-rez powers, so it makes sense to not die as much as possible.
I have a DB/WP brute who took Weave as well. The self-rez power on WP is not nearly as impressive as DA or FA, so not dying makes sense too.
It's just a matter of playstyle. MY SS/DA brute doesn't have Weave, because dying is barely a speed bump with the self-rez. The other characters don't have the luxury of having exploding corpses, so staying alive is the more efficient choice. -
Quote:They could give them small values at level 1 and slowly increase it until it becomes the 'normal' values they are at level 20. That way, it makes pre-20 (especially pre-DO) levelling slightly easier and you still get that feeling of character growth.1. Award them at the levels they would normally be choosable, for the sake of retaining the same flow and feel to character growth.
2. Make the powers do very little or even nothing until and unless they are slotted with an Enhancement by doing something like the following (using Health as an example):
I play a lot of melee toons and most, if not all, of them take Stamina at 20. What this change means is that I can take other powers instead of having to save three 'mandatory' slots for the Fitness pool. -
Quick answer is any blaster/defender/corruptor with lots of AoE damage.
I'd like to throw in my two cents by suggesting an Elec dominator. -
Quote:Purples and priority targetting can solve most of these problems. Also, debuff resistances.Fighting psi cops with no defense and only resistance. Say bye to Recharge.
Fighting Circle Ghosts with no defense and only resistance. Say bye to tohit.
Fighting Blue Ink Tsoo with no defense and only resistance. Say bye to damage and speed.
Fighting a large number of Malta with no defense, only resistance. Say bye to Stamina and chain protection breaking through your passive immunities.
Vastly superior. There is a reason everyone D caps.
Besides, RNG can always hate you and no amount of defense can help. -
You don't chase Fury. Fury comes to you. No Brute player I know really pays attention to that bar - it's just there.
But in terms of Scrapper vs. Brute I feel that Brutes are far easier to level from 1-22, because of the increased damage from Fury. But once you hit 22 and the Scrappers drop a few SOs/IOs into their attacks, the two ATs even out.
At endgame, it all comes down to how your slot your characters and your powerset combinations. I prefer my Brutes because they feel like they hit harder, even though I know my Scrappers do more damage.
Also, Brutes feel like the perfect balance between Tankers and Scrappers, so they get my vote.
Also, Scrappers do feel really squishy before they hit 50, despite the fact that their defensive numbers are exactly the same as a Brutes. Its got something to do with the Scrapper's lower HP numbers (and there aren't any +HP accolades available pre-50 on Blueside to improve this). And even after they hit 50, they can still feel really squishy (depending on powerset). -
Shield/Fire.
My friend has one and he's pretty much a minion lawnmower. Easily capped defenses, 3 strong AoEs and a lot of damage. Lack of self-heal hurts, but nothing that can't be fixed by picking up Aid Self.
You might have END problems, but that's what Stamina and Physical Perfection is for.