Red teams function different than blue teams.
Every single red side AT has decent damage and decent survival. Because of this if a Brute tanks anything it's typically just the toughest mob in the group, and punchvoke is enough for that. Run in, take alpha, tackle the toughest thing, watch the spawn explode around you, finish off the toughest thing, next group.
Good blue side groups do this too... it just this play style comes built in to red side.
Now that GR is in play it's pretty much all steamroll, all the time. I expect in time even more tankers will start respeccing out of Taunt (already a fair number who skip it).
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Actually, I suspect that more Tanks and Brutes will take Taunt after the switch to inerrant Fitness. It's a really useful skill even with just the base slotting.
OP-- Taunt isn't required to be an effective Brute. It is, however, highly sought after in team settings and can basically ensure that your Brute stays peaked on Fury no matter what the team composition is. It's not required solo at all.
Well thank you for the insight with taunt, that definitely makes sense. Anyone have a comment on Elec/Fire and endurance management?
You should take a gander at the new Consume. It is more useful now than it has been in recent times. I never found /fa to be much trouble with consume in your arsenal.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
In addition to its teaming benefit, Taunt is a useful tool if you rely on PBAoE's. It's also useful if you have powers that are more powerful when you are crowded by baddies. And for Brutes, its useful for generating Fury very quickly and holding on to it.
I like to be flexible, counting when inherent fitness comes in, Brutes with taunt will be all rounders, able to cover many obvious problems with easy solutions.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Totally skipable... until I19 when you get 3 more power picks and can use it on things like taunt and other 1 slot powers.
Taunt is useful for certain encounters where you'll be facing multiple hard targets simultaneously (such as ITF, LRSF, STF, etc). For general play/teaming/steamrolling it can be skipped as long as you're good at grabbing aggro with your taunt aura and AoE attacks
I love to put a damage proc in Taunts. heh.
Brutes are not tanks and never were intended to be. With GR its a moot point because tanks can cross over now. I just hope I don't see any of the Timmy the Non Taunting Tanks over there. I know, I know everyone says having taunt is bad but its good for gathering aggro, pulling and getting that add off of your squishie.
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They may not have been intended to be, but they can be when built well. Scrappers can even tank when built well.|
Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
Brutes are not tanks and never were intended to be.
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It's not very common though.
I've considered picking up taunt on my Brutes (SS/Fire, Claws/DA) once fitness becomes inherent, but I still think there is not much need for it. Taunt aura works well enough, the only time I think taunt is actually really needed are for hami raids, in which I have a separate build for my Dark Armor for them.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Indeed, only good Brutes are capable of tanking.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
They may not have been intended to be, but they can be when built well. Scrappers can even tank when built well.
It's not very common though. |
Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm going to skip it. Any thought on the best epic pool for elec/fa
brutes for the time being?
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All Brutes have the taunt power listed in their primaries.|
Originally Posted by dmcfarland907
Brutes are not tanks and never were intended to be.
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Taunt adds certain flexibilities.
Brutes were clearly intended to have these certain flexibilities if the player so wished.
I would probably wager that alot of Tankers crossing to the dark side are well aware that Tankers aren't needed as much there as that side of the game was made without them in mind. Will they have taunt?
It doesn't matter what people decide a Brute should do. The AT is capable of certain things. People can only decide for their own Brutes.
I for one whether I will be on a Brute or Tanker will be relieved to see other Brutes without taunt as it means I have control. On STFs, LGTFs, LRSFs they will require certain team make ups and I won't give a toot. They'll be a small part of the reason why AVs or Heroes are dying quick and I'll be a big part of the reason why the team is surviving and able to kill them quick.
Not in all teams, but most teams, at best I shouldn't even need to design a team around me.
A Brute is not a Tanker but it does share more common abilities to a Tanker than a Scrapper. It is clear it is hoped that it is designed to fill both roles if wished without being so good it can always replace both ATs in any situation.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
My Brute has Taunt so he can six-slot it with Perfect Zinger and get 3% S/L defense.
But it's not even on my bars.
My Fire/Fire tank spends an awful lot of time solo, and I haven't regretted taking Taunt. It really is helpful for pulling, and helping clump up spawns to be incinerated. I can only imagine that PBAoE Brutes would find it just as useful, especially when there's no corner to hide behind. Still, each to their own. I'm sure Elec/Fire will make large numbers of things stop moving quickly with or without Taunt.
My brute took Taunt as his level 49 power (mostly because I needed a power that I didn't have to slot).
Since I only really use it on TFs (pulling the healing Nictus away on ITFs is one thing I've used it for), losing it below level 44 doesn't really hurt me, since I lose my softcap when I drop below 47 anyway.
It's skippable, but nice to have for the situations where you need to pull agro off squishies and can't run over there to punch 'em. (The enemy mobs, not the squishies 
)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Actually, I suspect that more Tanks and Brutes will take Taunt after the switch to inerrant Fitness. It's a really useful skill even with just the base slotting.
OP-- Taunt isn't required to be an effective Brute. It is, however, highly sought after in team settings and can basically ensure that your Brute stays peaked on Fury no matter what the team composition is. It's not required solo at all. |
This sums up my opinion on Taunt for Brutes.
It's a great skill but I wasn't able to fit it in on most builds, and was able to make due without it.
Brute taunt auras, and taunting through aggressive use of AoEs are generally sufficient with Brute damage output to handle most aggro control needs.
However, with fitness going inherent, and Taunt being good with just the base slot, I will be taking Taunt on nearly every Brute I have.
Only the few "solo-only" Brutes that have a particular concept I want to stick to will not be taking Taunt.
Taunt should only NOT be taken if you can't handle the aggro it brings you, IE: Mainly before SO's.
please...please....pleaqse....brute and tanks take taunt...how many times do I have to say it..
It makes a huge difference...
I see this difference as a tank (with /without taunt)...and as a squishy who has died (because the tank had no taunt) and who has lived because the tank could pull a mob off me from across the room...
TAKE TAUNT....Most tanks/brutes cannot do their jobs in team form without it...
My job on a team is to beat the everliving crap out of things, and be tough enough to survive doing so. Since I have good fury building chains as is, taunt is more of a detrement to the second than a boon to the first. The only brute I have Taunt on is my stone armor, because it's easier than chasing mobs around. I'll be adding Hasten, not Taunt, with I19... to beat the everliving crap out of things even faster.
Brutes are not Tankers.
As an aside, something's been bothering me since I18. Why don't Scrappers get in trouble for skipping Confront? They're just as tough as a non-buffed Brute and do more damage but nobody expects them to tank. Why?
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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My numerous IO'd lvl 50 brutes would like to have a talk with you.|
Originally Posted by gilbegger1
TAKE TAUNT....Most tanks/brutes cannot do their jobs in team form without it...
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When Fitness becomes inherent, I'll consider it. Until then, I can (and have been) "doing my job in team form without it" just fine... thanks.
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1) When I play my squishies, any aggro I draw is my fault and my problem to deal with.|
Originally Posted by gilbegger1
please...please....pleaqse....brute and tanks take taunt...how many times do I have to say it..
It makes a huge difference... I see this difference as a tank (with /without taunt)...and as a squishy who has died (because the tank had no taunt) and who has lived because the tank could pull a mob off me from across the room... TAKE TAUNT....Most tanks/brutes cannot do their jobs in team form without it... |
2) What are you doing across the room aggroing things that you obviously can't handle on your own?
3) When I play my Brutes, Dark Obliteration from across the room works nearly as well as a Taunt does.
I'll be taking taunt, but not because some squishies can't handle their aggro.
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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
My job on a team is to beat the everliving crap out of things, and be tough enough to survive doing so. Since I have good fury building chains as is, taunt is more of a detrement to the second than a boon to the first. The only brute I have Taunt on is my stone armor, because it's easier than chasing mobs around. I'll be adding Hasten, not Taunt, with I19... to beat the everliving crap out of things even faster.
Brutes are not Tankers. |
2) I think you should re-think about how to utilize taunt, and how it will allow you on a team with other Brutes and Tankers to maintain an even larger slice of the aggro=fury pie.
3) I agree, Brutes are not Tankers. That has nothing to do with generating and maintaining aggro, and the fact that a Brute that is capable of maintaining constant aggro at cap does more for a team than one that tries to play like a Scrapper.
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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
As an aside, something's been bothering me since I18. Why don't Scrappers get in trouble for skipping Confront? They're just as tough as a non-buffed Brute and do more damage but nobody expects them to tank. Why?
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More Brute secondaries get taunt auras than Scrapper secondaries do, even when they share the same secondaries.
Ex:
Brutes get TAUNT, a multitarget power. Scrappers get CONFRONT, a single target power.
- Firey Aura
- Electric Armor
- Dark Armor
- Super Reflexes
Brutes, even unbuffed, have more Hit Points, and higher resistance caps (which means more resistance to each resistance armor's particular strength - even unbuffed. See: Invuln, Firey Aura, Electric Armor, Dark Armor.)
Brutes are designed to generate massive amounts of aggro, and the role they often fill on teams is to take alpha strikes and hold aggro while pounding stuff.
If you're only goal is to "...beat the everliving crap out of things, and be tough enough to survive doing so..."
You can do exactly that while playing a Scrapper.
It's the combination of high damage dealing combined with threat generation that is particular to the Brute AT.
I'll be taking Taunt in i19 because it's basically free, does not require more than the basic slot, is useful for multi-AV fights on teams, useful for gathering ranged mobs into a tight pack when solo and because it means I will always be nearly guaranteed to have fury fuel regardless of team composition.
Hey peeps, so I have been away from the game for a very long time and now I want to make a brute! In reading forum posts and looking at power sets I have decided to give Elec/Fire a shot. In noticed that in most builds people post on the brute forums, nobody gets taunt! Is it not needed with the inherent taunt in powers that brutes have? Do brutes never tank anymore?
Any insight would be appreciated! Also, I was curious if physical perfection would be necessary or if consume would be up enough for it not to be needed.