Atago

Yes, thx Leo_G. If every Player would have this knowledge and way of thinking there would be no need for discussions about it or thoughts about changes. Too bad that it is not so.

If you were right then we wouldn't have these recurring discussions over and over again. That we have them is a proof that it is not only me (this is the first and only KB-Thread in that i've quoted) and that it is not enough to explain how KB is used correctly in teams. This is a fact that you forswear in a stubborn way for some inexplicable reason. As long as you do this a further discussion with you will lead to nothing. Whatever! I presented my idea and that was all i wanted.

Maybe Knockback itself is not a Problem. Maybe Knockback causes no Problems for a part of the Players, but in fact the form it is implemented as secondary effect of Damagepowers causes problems for enough other players so that it is not damnable to give thoughts about it. Denying this categorically is a bit unfair regarding these Players. More helpfull would be helping to find a solution for a compromise which would be O.K. for all.

In my suggestion the Suppressor works only for your own Powers......so no need for a suppressor suppressor:-)

I don't know much about programming so i'm not able to judge if something is makeable or not. I found the idea of the customizable Powers with a right click menu which has sliders also nice, but thought that this would be much more work. But Ideas are ideas and not more and if is too difficult to realize them, or the Devs don't have the time for it, or don't see any benefit from it for the Game, O.K.

I'm not a big fan of changing Knockback-Effects in general. In many Situations and many Powers they make sense and are an integral part of the game. But what i see is that a part of the Players seem to have a problem with it and even if we say that they should learn to use it in the right way they still will have it. It's a simple fact that some Players love it, some Players hate it and some Players love it when soloing but hate it when Teaming. Nothing that each side brings into the discussion will convince the other side. Preferences and personal Feeling seldom can be changed through arguments.

-If nothing is changed a good part of the players will still have problems with it and dislike it. No arguments and advices will change this point. That we can see cause it is discussed over and over again.
-If the Powers itself or the Effect are changed it will change the balancing and for many Players the whole game and i think nobody wants this.

My thought was that if it would be in the form of a Temporary power the effort for most players for buying the recipes, building them and that after each TF or every 2-3 Missions would be too great to use the Power 24/7. So it will be used only under certain conditions. And the other point that it only affects the Players who have issues with it and all other Players are not affected and can still play the game as before.


P.S.
Interesting that you brought Dual Pistols into the discussion, it has its own kind of Knockback Suppression already and from what i see it works.

It's your opinion that all is fine and we don't need such additional stuff and it's my opinion, that it would be an improvement and if i take a look in other Threads i see that there are several Players who think the same.

There are many 'Knockback' Threads out there where the Reasons for and Reasons against any kind of Changes or a Suppression were discussed before. In all these Threads i did not found an argument that convinced me that Suppressions/Changes/Improvements to knockbacks are rubbish and will ruin the game, so i don't know why this all should be repeated, it makes no sense and for me it's a waste of time. It's not necessary for me to convince you, cause it's not your decision if there should be changes or not. I think the Devs follow these threads too and will form their own opinion and will decide on their own if it is an issue or not and if they can afford the time or not. But if i see that f.E. in 95% of the Crab-Builds Frag Grenade is skipped cause it has Knockback than it is clear for me that it is an issue. You have to accept that it is a problem for a part of the players, even if it is no problem for you. And so do i accept that you think that the Devs should use their time for something, in your eyes, more important.

But O.K. if you have this new, up to now not stated and stringent argument that shows that those changes would hurt the game or imbalance it, feel free to post it and i will be quiet and will not longer pursue this specific idea. 'Learn to play with it' is for me no argument but a dumb quote.


P.S. Balancing and Improvements to the existing Content > new Content. That's what i think about that.

Knockback, one of the most discussed secondary effect. Some love and some hate it. Some take Powersets cause they have Knockbacks, some avoid these Powersets for that reason. In some situations it's usefull in others rather annoying. There are threads about using it in teams correctly and PPL who don't want to have Knockbackers in their team. There are situations where PPL are frustrated cause their Knockdowns turn in Knockbacks, some PPL want it to be changed and some PPL don't see the necessity of changes and think PPL should learn to live with it and Players only have the Problems cause they use their KB-Powers in the wrong way.........It seems to be a tricky Situation. No matter what is done one side will be unsatisfied. We don't have to discuss this all once more, it was discussed often enough and all Arguments for and against Changes are wrote many times.

Here is my Suggestion. To avoid a disadvantage for one side don't change the Powers or the Knockback itself, better add an additional Feature. So the PPL can decide on their own if they want to use it or not. We had some Ideas before like Toggles to turn KB off/reduce their Mag, customizable Secondary Effects, changing KB to Knockups/Knockdowns, here is my Idea:

Temporary Power - The Suppressor:
Build out of Recipes like Jet Packs, Recovery Serums etc.
Toggle Power, fast Recharge, lasts for 2h of activation time (you can create only 1 at a time so it has to last long enough for TFs, Trials etc.)

If you turn this device on it creates a field that suppresses(decreases) the Knockback effects of your Powers to a Magnitude of 0.1 (or 0.5 or 0.67? I'm not sure what would be better).

Or with complete KB-Suppression:

If you turn this device on it creates a field that suppresses the Knockback effects of your Powers.


Why as Temporary Power? No one has to create a Suppressor and use it if he doesn't like.
Is it needed? What is really needed? I don't know if it's really needed. If KB is changed someday i think such additional features will offer some advantages over Powerchanges cause they harm PPL who love KB not too much.

As promised here are all the Crab Costume Files:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-...tumes.rar.html

@Sinergy
This should be the 2. Costume. For the other one i will create+post a file tomorrow:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-...g.costume.html

Masterminds could be cool, 'could' cause i finde that the possibilities of the 'Army of One' Idea are unexhausted. That results in balancing-problems and limited tactical options.I know from other Games that it is possible to do so much more with Pets, seeing that the Pets of the only real Petclass in my favourite Game are so restricted makes me sad.
ATM Defensive/Follow is the only mode that gives the MM advantages, so you're forced to play the tank for your pets and other Playstyles are penalized. Sure you can command your Pet to go there or to wait here, wow. The following suggestions are supposed to give the aggressive and passive mode more sense, bypass the problems of the pet-ai and make this class more interesting, rounded and logical.

Part 1
1. Raise the HP and the Resistance of the Pets(exact amount has to be tested)
2. Add a taunt-Aura to the Tier 3 Pet and a taunt aspect to its attacks(maybe as Togglebutton, like the Ammotoggles in Pistols, so you can turn it off if you play in a team). Or add a special command to the standard-commands of the MM->Pet Taunt: Commands the targeted Pet to taunt/provoke the Enemies in his vicinity to attack him

For what these changes? As base for the following:

Stances:
Aggressive/Attackmode - No changes, Pets attack
->MM plays as pure supporter and keeps them with Buffs/Heals, Debuffs alive. The whole damage comes from the Pets. The above changes help to support this playstyle. Pets are no more oneshotted so a good player has the chance to direct them and keep them alive.

Defensive/Bodyguardmode - Pets get a Def-and Resdebuff(so they end ~with the stats they have atm), Pet-Taunt is supressed, Pets assist the MM they do not target the NPCs but the MM and attack his target, Damage is shared as now
->Pets and MMs attack together, the MM tanks for his Pets and they support him with Buffs, Heals and Damage, Damage comes from Pets and MM together

Passive/Watchmode - Pets get a Def-and Resdebuff(so they end ~with the stats they have atm), Pet-Taunt is supressed, Pets use only defensive Powers such as Buffs and Heals, MM gets a Damageboost while in this mode, Damage is shared
->MM stands alone in the frontline, he tanks and makes all the Damage, Pets support him with Buffs and uses their Healpowers if they take Damage

Additional suggestions:
Make the Petpowers selectable, like in other games. A simple right mouse button menu if you click on the pet in the Petmenu where you can select/deselect them. With that the MM is able to define the playstyle of the different pets

Follow/Stay-If the Pets get the Stay-Command the get immobilized, staying as the command says, thy will still use their attacks if they are in range. If they get the Follow-Command they stay at the MM(MM is the mark to move, and they get rooted if they are close to the MM) and only move if the MM moves




I think, this all together would give the MMs a much more tactical note, like an 'Army-Commander' should have. I know that some of the Points need a bit of fine-tuning to make them work properly. I don't expect that all of you like my ideas or find the changes necessary and. My only hope is that if the Devs decide one day to take a look at MMs the one or another Idea will help them.








P.S.
OK, you already know this: Some sets should be reworked. It can not be that some Primaries underperform compared to others, no matter which secondary you choose. Don't forget the balancing of things that are already IG over creating all the new content. Poison is a good example for a set which needs a bit love. Mercenaries also, come on we talk about MERCENARIES. The tough Guys that fight behind enemy lines. Really hard and tough guys who can resist lots of pain and trouble, with their bulletproofed Kevlar-vests on. It's easy: Add a defense-aura to all Tier 2 Pets (like the Thugs-Enforcers have already). Depending on Powerset a Def-or Res Aura. Change the Buffs of the Robots to Dispersion Bubbles. The Sets will have still enough differences so they will still not all be the same, but all sets will have a comparable survivability and will be combinable with more of the secondaries.

With my Crab "CRUEL CARNAGE" i went a Terminator/Cybernetic Way.

1. Costume...Killer-Robot:



2. Costume...Cyber-Soldier:


3. Costume...Black Terminator:

Hehe, my dream-MM. Softcapped to all + Aid Other/Self + Team Teleport/Recall Friend + Provoke + Permahasten + softcapped Pets

WTB the possibilty to use 6 Pools......:-)

Team Teleport, i thought about that before. I only don't know how to get it into my build. ATM i have the Speedpool/Hasten, Fighting Pool which gives me >10% DEF and Knockback Protection, Leadership/Maneuvers to softcap my Pets and Presence/Provoke. If i don't want to loose survivability the only Way would be to skip Hasten or Provoke, mmmmh, i'm not sure.
With the more than stupid Pet-AI...can't imagine that it works so well without Provoke.
Hasten? I don't like Hasten, but atm i don't have the Recharge to live without it. I think later when i start to use more IO-Sets skipping Hasten would be an option for me.

Overall i'm really satisfied with my Robots/Traps. I'm soloing at +2/x8 since lvl 27. Pets are softcapped and i'm close to. Only problem i have is to find the right tactic to hold the NPCs together. First tatic was placing my Traps and using Provoke to pull the enemies to me and my Bots. Then at lvl28 i switched to different tactic and now i use the Seeker Drones to take the Alpha and jump in to place my Traps in the middle of the Spawn. Then i provoke, provoke, resummon Traps, provoke, provoke, call that stupid Battle Drone back only to see it run away again a second later, provoke....most of the time it ends in a big chaos. What disturbs me is that i don't find a way to keep the Mobs together. They split in groups and i end using provoke in all directions. It's hard to keep the Aggro that way and to avoid that my Robots don't split up in all directions.

I'm very interested to hear what tactics you use if you fight large spawns. Maybe there are some tricks to make it all less chaotic, to keep the Mobs and the Pets closer together.

I agree to that what Seldom and Infini said. I started a Elec/Psi a good Week ago which is now lvl35 and he is more fun and seems more survivable than my Fire/Psi. Damagewise the Fire/PSI outperforms Elec, sure, but Elec gives me a more safety and easier, smoother feeling.

lol, was on now for 4 hours with a lvl12 char, 9 ppl < lvl 20 on and only 2 of them wanted to start a team, but only for half an hour. And this was not only this evening, yesterday i played one of my Scrappers lvl28 and had a team for 1 hour of ~4h, most of the time 3-4ppl and that was a good evening and an exception....so your experience is not mine...we can now discuss hour for hour how it's more easily to find a team, which channels you have to join, which side you have to play, if you have to run TFs instead of Missions etc.....but this doesn't change the fact that it is not easy to find bigger teams on all Servers and in all Levelranges.

For example the german server now atm(9 PM):
PPL online on Heroside atm 36:
22: lvl50
4: lvl40-49
10: lvl 1-39

Sure the real Problem is not the lack of enough Powers to solo well, the problem is that COX is a pure Teamgame and most of the time the Playernumbers on some servers are not high enough to play in full teams.

Sure, you're right. So let's say it was an Idea from a Player who found it necessary from his own subjective POV. If the majority of players and the Devs don't find this suggestion useful, OK can live with it.

I had a dream........and that dreams come true is very rare....:-))

Nowadays some of the Servers are so empty that you have to solo most of the time. Many Powersets are not designed for that and you have to reach lvl38-41 to have access to the Epic Pools to equalize their weaknesses. But there is the problem, in most cases it's the lvlrange from 1-40 that really sucks and where you need a team and can't find one and not >lvl40. For Example i would like to make a Ice-Troller but i know it would be a pain in the a** to level him up on my server, soloing most of the time.
Know with the inherent Fitness-Pool there should be room for a new Pool, maybe a Pool that helps the Players who want to play ATs that are not designed for soloing but have to. A Pool that has more benefits for Players <lvl40 than for Players above. Maybe an Assault-Pool....4 Attackpowers to bridge the time till you get some Attacks or are in a Levelrange where you can find more teams.
lvl6:
Singletarget Ranged Attack or Singletarget Melee Attack
lvl14:
Targeted AOE Attack
lvl20:
Damage Aura?

Maybe some sorts of Throwing Knives and Grenades using Lethal/Smashing Damage and not so powerfull like the Epic pool Attacks. So they are more usefull in lower levels where these Damagetypes are not so resisted and have not so much use for Players who have acces to Epic Pools and lvl38 Powers....only a little help for Powersets which lack Attacks to solo efficiently.

I find it still incredible what is possible with the incarnate system. Made a Testbuild quite after it's release, Softcap + Permahasten with only 1 Slot + real Perma Drain Psyche, of that i've dreamt a long time. Time to bring my Elec/Psy to lvl50 and start work on this new goal :-))