Another discussion about names
Oh no. I got what you said. I don't just don't think people would see the misspelling of Phoenix any different than they do using a number in the name.
Gremlin, is taken! Sooo...a person goes with Grem1in. People say they hate it. So why would Fhenix be any different? |
However I've read books where authors spelled "witch" with a "y" and magic with a "k" or a "yk". So in cases like that I assume the player was trying to be creative and come up with a unique memorable name.
Oh no. I got what you said. I don't just don't think people would see the misspelling of Phoenix any different than they do using a number in the name.
Gremlin, is taken! Sooo...a person goes with Grem1in. People say they hate it. So why would Fhenix be any different? |
Honestly? IMO it depends on the misspelling. If I see someone with a name like Lronblade instead of Ironblade I assume they are abusing the similarity between the capital "L" and "I" ingame so they can use a name someone else got first. Same goes for names that have numbers substituted for letters. Although I do check their bio to see if they made an effort to explain why they are using leetspeak in their name.
However I've read books where authors spelled "witch" with a "y" and magic with a "k" or a "yk". So in cases like that I assume the player was trying to be creative and come up with a unique memorable name. |
The problem is that we already don't have visually unique names. Using the standard in-game font, names such as "Delilah" and "DeIiIah" (using upper-case I for the lower-case L) look identical. If you're picking names from a list or responding to tells with backspace, you'll never know that you're talking to a different person. (I use a font that differentiates those two letters to avoid this problem.)
That means it's already possible to impersonate any character who has a lower-case L in their name. Similarly, as mentioned with the name "0mega" only observant players will be able to distinguish the difference between zero and upper-case O. And, of course, unless you have eidetic memory, you won't remember the exact spelling of names that include hyphens for characters with whom you've teamed only briefly. So when you get tells from Badger-man, Badgerman, Badger - Man and -Badger Man- are you really going to be able to keep them all straight? |
Oh no. I got what you said. I don't just don't think people would see the misspelling of Phoenix any different than they do using a number in the name.
Gremlin, is taken! Sooo...a person goes with Grem1in. People say they hate it. So why would Fhenix be any different? |
The thinking here is when and if you change out a letter, make sure if read it will still sound like what you intended it to sound like. Case in point, Phoenix sounds like Fhenix. Domenitra sounds like Dominitra. I would never mix numbers with letters as in your example Grem1in using the "1" to substitute an "l". I see this all the time and this kind of tells me that maybe the OP just gave-up on trying to come-up with a name. Yeah, it may take a bit of thinking sometimes, but if and when you can come up with a good name, it's yours and no one else has it or can take it away. And "that" is what makes the individuality of this game work so well.
It doesn't really have much to do with the real topic (And thus why it is better left out of it), but whenever someone offers examples of how they cleverly or creatively came up with naming alternatives, it can (And usually will) be seen by someone else as not clever nor creative (To their opinion).
It's just matters of personal preference and opinion and I don't say it as an attack on anyone (On either side) and also not directing this nor basing it on anyone within this thread.
I was actually going to comment on it before that exchange took place here.
What is important is that the name owner is happy, of course.
Many examples of sidestepping naming problems just opens up disagreement in opinions. Not that this is a terrible thing. So long as the people involved recognize that their examples may not be good enough for others and that those who don't find them good enough understand that it's just a matter of opinion.
Non traditional alternate spellings can work for names, but they can also look like transparent misspellings of words. It's a tricky game
I, myself, prefer not to do that unless it is somehow tied into the background/concept and has very good reason (Which can be simple to achieve sometimes, for sure).
My suggestion for when a very common word, such as Phoenix or Gremlin or anything else like that is to not shoot for that single, common word, but to instead add another word to it or add a prefix or suffix to the name.
For comicbook types, colors and adjectives work wonderfully.
Names can also be great. It all depends on the concept.
I'd think exploring further to define that specific character is a better approach (Just my opinion though) than trying to latch on to a common word that is already taken.
Felicia Phoenix, Luminous Phoenix, Phoenix Forever, Phoenix Phil... Red Phoenix, Gold Phoenix, etc.
Anyway, I only used that example since it'd been tossed around a bit there.
Carry on!
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I don't think it's "offensive", I think it goes against the genre and cheapens the experience.
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I don't agree with you that duplicate names goes against the genre, but for the sake of this particular sub-thread, I'm going to act as though I do agree with you for simplicity's sake.
A lot of decisions are made that go against the genre in a game, for the sake of gameplay. I think this is one of those decisions that should be made for superhero games, because I think being free to choose the name that fits the most is very important when creating your own superhero, more important than making sure that it is the only superhero with that name.
I know you disagree, I just wanted to explain what I meant in the post you responded to.
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I think I only have two toons that have numbers "with" their names but not integrated within their names. For Gemlin I probably would have gone the "e" route. "e" can sound like an "i". So if Gremlin is taken, I would have tried Gremlen with an "e" first. It still sounds that same when you say it. If that was taken, then maybe I would try a play on the word Gremlin. If female, Gremliana or Gremliotta for example. For Males, Gremlock or Gremland or something that sounds masculine.
The thinking here is when and if you change out a letter, make sure if read it will still sound like what you intended it to sound like. Case in point, Phoenix sounds like Fhenix. Domenitra sounds like Dominitra. I would never mix numbers with letters as in your example Grem1in using the "1" to substitute an "l". I see this all the time and this kind of tells me that maybe the OP just gave-up on trying to come-up with a name. Yeah, it may take a bit of thinking sometimes, but if and when you can come up with a good name, it's yours and no one else has it or can take it away. And "that" is what makes the individuality of this game work so well. |
I just wish the devs wouldn't allow people with inactive accounts after so long, to keep the names they have.
If they made it between 18-24 months, I think it would be all set. Even more so on some of those names, I've checked on that have no global account name attached to them.
And truth is, using the system that the other game uses, wouldn't stop any of the non-sense, lousy names we see now. I've played the other game, and even with the ability to pick any name you wanted I myself never saw a double.
Now I'm sure there were some doubles, I just never saw them. But I saw LOTS AND LOTS of terrible names.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
If it were up to me I'd let that name purge program run after every scheduled maintenance. That way it would constantly release names on accounts that went over the 3 month inactive deadline.
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...
The third category appears to be "I find the idea of multiple people having the same name/someone else getting the name I got, to be offensive". I think this is as valid as wanting to enforce your own personal naming requirements on the population, such as no punctuation, misspellings, or hyphens in other people's names. I don't really find this argument to be compelling. I understand it from an emotional standpoint (I really wish everyone that played would make characters that fit my idea of what a superhero is), but it's not logically persuading. ... |
I do not think it is a facet of emotion and lacking logical backing... and, more importantly (And also because of) that very same approach is already heavily applied to the name filters and name system in place, as designed by the developers.
What I mean is, the name system in this game is designed to follow guidelines as seen important and necessary by the developers. Also, as one would imagine, based somewhat on the genre (Wide as it may be) that the game is based around.
It is really not a stretch of logic (nor purely a selfish emotional concern) to see the idea that unique names are a desirable thing and that having 5 Captain Amazings as regular heroes 'round Paragon City is "an offense" to the basis of this game.
Plenty of options that would be offensive to the game's creators, producers, customers, competitors and such are in place and are a very big part of the game's systems.
Citing this angle as a reason for unique names is not something to dismiss.
This, again, comes down to when an individual has a different preference. The key is to not dismiss major reasons that the opposing side holds their preference dear.
Unique names and maintaining certain semblances of the genre, culture and medium are indeed significant aspects of why the system is both in place and enjoyed.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
My suggestion for when a very common word, such as Phoenix or Gremlin or anything else like that is to not shoot for that single, common word, but to instead add another word to it or add a prefix or suffix to the name.
For comicbook types, colors and adjectives work wonderfully. Names can also be great. It all depends on the concept. I'd think exploring further to define that specific character is a better approach (Just my opinion though) than trying to latch on to a common word that is already taken. Felicia Phoenix, Luminous Phoenix, Phoenix Forever, Phoenix Phil... Red Phoenix, Gold Phoenix, etc. |
Another example was Athena, "the patron goddess of Athens, worshiped as the goddess of wisdom, handicrafts, and warfare. She is often allegorized into a personification of wisdom." Of course we know that was taken. So, I added Zena infront and got Zena Athena. Nice huh? Yeah I know, it seems I may come across as somewhat proud any maybe tooting my own horn in how I created my toons names. Well, I am proud of the time and effort it took to put together these names and so should anyone else who takes the time to do this. So basically my naming went something like this:
Wanted Fusion opted for Fusion 7 (Blaster)
Wanted Dark Raven opted for Dark Braven (Controller)
Wanted Chimera opted for Chimera Mist(Warshade)
Wanted Ambrosia opted for Zambrosia (Night Widow)
Wanted Athena opted for Zena Athena (Blaster)
Wanted Brimo opted for Brimoriota (MM)
Wanted Fission opted for Fission 8 (Corruptor)
Wanted Phoenix opted for Fhenix (Controller)
Wanted Catalina opted for Cattalina (Stalker)
Wanted Demonica opted for Demmonica (Demon Summoning MM)
Wanted Trixie opted for Strixie (Duel Pistol Blaster)
Wanted Dominitra opted for Domenitra (Dominator)
All my toons are women. You may notice that the "a" at then end of some of their names to help "feminize" them. Each toon's bio corresponds with how they got their names. I guess the reason I am so adamant about this is anytime I see something in these posts that says there are either not enough names to go around or they should let people share names, I have to jump in.
I would say though and agree with some that if someone canceled their account and it sits for a period of time, that their toons names should be fair game. I am not sure this is the case now? In reading the rules, I don't think anything is ever deleted from the server if you canceled your account, not sure?
This again? (It's not "another" discussion about names, it's the same one.)
No. Just no.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
I agree with this. I'd much rather put up with seeing multiple of the same names if it meant I could finally have decent, single-word names. I like my character names to be iconic, not obscure jargon. I don't care if everyone else can use the same name, because I focus on my character.
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I got
Juvie
Penny Tuesday
Bronz Vigil
Coin Trick
For Villians,
Juvinile Delinquent
Fagin
Quartermaster Agent
And these are on Virtue!
On the less populated servers I got a Ulysses! Ulysses on CHAMPION! Come on people!
Really what is the problem? Just come up with a decent name, use some creativity.
A little while back, at HeroCon IIRC, the devs asked the people assembled if they would like a change to the naming system that would free up all names.
That crowd, for the most part, said "no". This surprised me. I see a lot of complaints about name availability, especially on the larger servers. I don't think anyone likes using periods and increasingly odd punctuation to have a name, and I doubt people like seeing it. I personally would love such a change. So, I was wondering why exactly people would object to it. Is it because they don't want someone having the same name as one of their characters? That seems a little shallow to me. If that bothers them, is seeing someone with the same name but with a period at the end OK then? That seems even more shallow. Being realistic, I don't see how someone who played a character to 37 and then stopped playing three years ago has any more or any less exclusive right to a name as someone who's actively playing and paying and thinks it would be great for their new character. Ok, yes I understand some people like that they scored a choice name. But for everyone of those, I bet they've been grok-blocked on many more, maybe by someone who's never even going to play the game again. The grown up thing is to understand that we'd be losing exclusivity on some names, but we would also be opening up a whole new universe of possibilities of names for us to use ourselves. If that's not the issue people had with the dev's proposal, what is? What could the devs do then to open up names for everyone and still please the doubters? . |
And I too sometimes have a hard time finding a name that I like and can live with for whatever new character I make.
I also play Champions. I like both games, and intend to continue to do so.
When I first tried Champions, I was leery about how the naming system would work because I am into immersive play.
It reminds me of when I first switched to a wide screen monitor, I was hesitant and thought I would not like it for some reason. Today, you would have to pry it from my dead hands, I will never go back.
I feel the same about the naming system. Being able to create a character and KNOW that I will be able to name it the exact name that I intended for him or her is priceless to me. I do not want to have to do "research" for hours on the web just to name a character.
So yeah, I am going to throw my hat in with the "I want the name I want" crowd.
And for whatever it's worth, I almost never see duplicate names over in Champions. It is such a rare sight. Plus, what I almost never see are names using numbers or any of the other naming tricks mentioned throughout this thread. Which really helps me keep my immersion going.
"Peace, and hug your mother at least once a week"
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
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This thread is not a suggestion, nor an idea.
.
And while there are those who would claim it wasn't an idea, I'm going to have to say, that there are several ideas covered throughout the thread .
Let's Dance!
I like it the way it is. When I see someone using that "creative" crap it's truth in advertising: they're letting every [one] know up front they're a would-be diva who can't deal with not getting their own way.
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If people can't handle the name they want being taken, and don't have the maturity to think up another name that they can use.... then they should be ridiculed and viewed as uncreative because that's what they are.
Truth hurts.
I do not think it is a facet of emotion and lacking logical backing... and, more importantly (And also because of) that very same approach is already heavily applied to the name filters and name system in place, as designed by the developers.
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My opinion on this is very simple:
Let's say John Smith wants a particular name for his character.
Let's also say that 20,000 people don't want John to have that name for his character for a variety of reasons.
Unless John is using that name to harass people, the name is too vulgar for the game's rating, or the name is copyrighted (I'd rather I didn't have to have the exception for copyrighting under current conditions. Superman and Batman should have entered the public domain decades ago), I will side with John every time, even if I *HATE* his name or he is using the same name as one of my or my friends' characters. I think someone's opinion about John's name never trumps John's right to make his character how he wants to outside of those conditions.
But as far as this game goes, because of the reasons Chase stated about changing a naming scheme, I'm not arguing aggressively for a change to CoH. I'd be happy if it was done, but I'm happy without it, too.
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I want to be clear: I didn't say it was a facet of emotion and lacked logical backing. I said I understood it from an emotional standpoint, and that it wasn't logically persuading. That doesn't mean that there is no logic in the argument, I just don't find it persuading.
My opinion on this is very simple: Let's say John Smith wants a particular name for his character. Let's also say that 20,000 people don't want John to have that name for his character for a variety of reasons. Unless John is using that name to harass people, the name is too vulgar for the game's rating, or the name is copyrighted (I'd rather I didn't have to have the exception for copyrighting under current conditions. Superman and Batman should have entered the public domain decades ago), I will side with John every time, even if I *HATE* his name or he is using the same name as one of my or my friends' characters. I think someone's opinion about John's name never trumps John's right to make his character how he wants to outside of those conditions. But as far as this game goes, because of the reasons Chase stated about changing a naming scheme, I'm not arguing aggressively for a change to CoH. I'd be happy if it was done, but I'm happy without it, too. |
However, the example you used there is my point.
There is a defined set of values, based on some people's opinions, about what he can or cannot name his character.
From the looks of it, unique names are a part of that opinionated standard.
That's my point.
If it was against the genre of a game's world... Mud-Ears might not be an acceptable name (I just pulled that out of no where, so don't read anything into it).
If a company were running a fantasy game, they may now allow real world names. A Star Wars game might have certain limitations/rules...
Maybe a completely modern/real-world-based game would allow 100 John Smiths or whatever.
People involved in the comicbook world have a general opinion that supers should each have their own name (One at a time, at least... within the same universe).
It's funny, I'm not that utterly opposed to duplicate names, but (As both you and Chase have said, and I said it earlier as well) without a serious need to make the change in this game, I am against making that change.
I am very much for concentrated and more aggressive name purges on inactive accounts (As I've said a bunch as well, hehe).
All I am saying is that unique names are considered by some to be an important part of the comicbook basis of this game.
That should have some logical persuasion in the discussion, as far as I see it.
More so... there are rules for what you can or cannot name a character. So, again, such rules come into play, They're not defined by you nor me, but by the developers. Whether we like them or not. And any fictional creation such as game worlds have every right to mandate certain parameters of acceptability. It's not that I or you want everyone to fit into my way of playing and such... it is that City Of Heroes has its way it does want us to fit in with. And it has a right to that.
I hope that made some sense
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I've been here with CoH since it came out years ago.
And I too sometimes have a hard time finding a name that I like and can live with for whatever new character I make. I also play Champions. I like both games, and intend to continue to do so. When I first tried Champions, I was leery about how the naming system would work because I am into immersive play. It reminds me of when I first switched to a wide screen monitor, I was hesitant and thought I would not like it for some reason. Today, you would have to pry it from my dead hands, I will never go back. I feel the same about the naming system. Being able to create a character and KNOW that I will be able to name it the exact name that I intended for him or her is priceless to me. I do not want to have to do "research" for hours on the web just to name a character. So yeah, I am going to throw my hat in with the "I want the name I want" crowd. And for whatever it's worth, I almost never see duplicate names over in Champions. It is such a rare sight. Plus, what I almost never see are names using numbers or any of the other naming tricks mentioned throughout this thread. Which really helps me keep my immersion going. "Peace, and hug your mother at least once a week" |
Well said and I like hearing it from your angle.
I have to admit that it does make me wonder.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I've been here with CoH since it came out years ago.
And I too sometimes have a hard time finding a name that I like and can live with for whatever new character I make. I also play Champions. I like both games, and intend to continue to do so. When I first tried Champions, I was leery about how the naming system would work because I am into immersive play. It reminds me of when I first switched to a wide screen monitor, I was hesitant and thought I would not like it for some reason. Today, you would have to pry it from my dead hands, I will never go back. I feel the same about the naming system. Being able to create a character and KNOW that I will be able to name it the exact name that I intended for him or her is priceless to me. I do not want to have to do "research" for hours on the web just to name a character. So yeah, I am going to throw my hat in with the "I want the name I want" crowd. And for whatever it's worth, I almost never see duplicate names over in Champions. It is such a rare sight. Plus, what I almost never see are names using numbers or any of the other naming tricks mentioned throughout this thread. Which really helps me keep my immersion going. "Peace, and hug your mother at least once a week" |
I dream of the day CoX adopts this.
I am very much for concentrated and more aggressive name purges on inactive accounts (As I've said a bunch as well, hehe).
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All I am saying is that unique names are considered by some to be an important part of the comicbook basis of this game. |
That should have some logical persuasion in the discussion, as far as I see it. |
More so... there are rules for what you can or cannot name a character. So, again, such rules come into play, They're not defined by you nor me, but by the developers. |
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Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
All I am saying is that unique names are considered by some to be an important part of the comicbook basis of this game.
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Sorry, I couldn't resist.
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
If the Flash saw this, he would freak out and call up the Flash, who in turn would be sad and then call up the Flash and tell him to make sure that the old Flash knows what's happening the next time he does a crossover issue with Captain Marvel while fighting The Green Lantern and Captain Marvel unless they are rescued by Green Lantern and Green Lantern and Green Lantern oh and that other Green Lantern.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. |
I know there are indeed exceptions!
There always are!!
I am a patron of the mighty platypus!
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I actually once did the math on this... Let's see if it still holds up.
Let's assume that, in total, there are about 120,000 players on CoH.
Let's split those up evenly among the various archetypes, and with a bit of rounding we get 8,571 players on each archetype at a given time.
Let's also split that number by server, and we wind up with 779 players on Virtue (for example) playing one archetype.
Now let's divide each archetype by the number of primary powersets and discard all the ones which don't have a "Fire" primary.
Blasters: 78
Brutes: 70
Controllers: 97
Corruptors: 78
Dominators: 111
Scrappers: 78
Tankers: 111
So! That's 623 players using a Fire power for their primary. Out of 10,906 players on Virtue.
Let's assume that fully 10% of players using a fire primary decide on the name "Blaze" with no other alterations or additions. That's 62 players with a fire character named Blaze.
Let's divide it further! Those 62 players aren't all going to be in the same time zone, after all. So breaking it down by 24 hours (one per time zone) we wind up with almost 3 players using the name "Blaze" in a given time zone! So if you're online during a given one hour period you have a 3 in 455 chance of meeting a guy named Blaze (Once we divide that 10,906 by 24, of course)
But wait! Further divide that total by 12. The number of character slots a person will have, automatically, on Virtue! That's .25 out of 455 or 1 in 1820 that you'll meet someone named "Blaze" on Virtue in a given hour!
Of course, ALL of my numbers are off, since we know Virtue and Freedom are the two most populated servers. So you'd likely as not see a higher instance of "Blaze" characters running around. But you'd also see a higher number of people NOT named "Blaze" running around, as well. Since the total population would grow as well as the various "Blaze" characters...
So yes. I am in favor of non-unique names.
And to those who comment on the Champions method being ugly (Blaze@Winnebago34) please note that Champs has an option in the game menu to turn off globals over people's heads or in chat windows. So such a system is already in place to continue avoiding immersion breaking.
While you might meet 12 "Rogue Angels of Satan" in Atlas Park during Peak Hours because someone thought it would be funny... do you ever take them seriously, anyway?
-Rachel-
I like having unique names so when you go to a server you know there is only one toon with that name. I also hate all the awful versions of names.
Tough situation but I think the CoH powers should release more names from people that haven't been on for an extended period. The game is over 6 years old now. Release every name on an account that has not logged in for 4+ years. Perhaps exempt toons over level 40 and leave those in check. Anything under should have the name released.
Send out an email to all old and new account holders. Maybe note all names meeting the criteria will be released as of Dec. 1, 2010. The current naming system stays in place. Just an idea.
I think that will release a lot of good names. It would be great for us and all the new players to get a crack at some cool names that were taken long before we got here.