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Again, riiiiiiight. Maybe because they have seen it come up before, and wanted to use PAX as a representative sample of data. There are probably many reasons they asked, none of which might have been that they already had the data.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No, but I bet the devs do, and they're the ones who floated the idea at HeroCon, likey for a reason.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
For what it's worth, I wasn't playing during the first wipe, blew off the e-mail, came back a year or two later and found some of my names gone. I shrugged and either abandoned them or started new characters. Having been warned and having chosen to ignore it, I didn't see anything to rage over eighteen months later.
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...Yet we had a whole series after Death of Superman where multiple people claimed the title as a successor.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
At the same time, if I was reading a Batman comic and he came across a guy fighting crime named Batman@MichaelKeaton who was teamed up with Batman@AdamWest and they were off to find Batman@ChristianBale to help them defeat Catwoman@MichellePfiffer and Catwoman@JulieNewmar, I'd probably set the book down. On a lit stove burner.
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You could have much the same by
a) defaulting to the global off, SO IT LOOKS IDENTICAL TO THE CURRENT SYSTEM, with mouseover showing it. At that time, you'd have "Superman teamed with Superman and Superman battling Superman" pretty much what the comic had. If you needed to speak to one (or report it) clicking on the character or the name would specify them and give you the option to see the global.
b) as above, but allow an alias system similar to our existing notes setting. This would let you choose to ALTER the name you see, much like you naturally use nicknames in real life. Then you could see, "Punisher Superman teaming with Steel teaming with Superboy (whether he wants to be called that or not) fighting Cyborg Superman" - the names many fans used to talk about what was going on.
This gives you the ability to apply very immediate, very visible (to you), persistence recognition to a duplicate name. You decide who you think is deserving of being called Superman and all the others can be given a nickname.
c) default to global off, but show a subscript marker for each duplicate name in the same chat window or zone. Users can be referenced by the subscript marker. If there's only one of that name in the zone or chat, there's no number marker.
That way you could team with ANY superman any time, but if you encountered more than one at the same time, you'd have an ordinal reference. (I teamed with superman last night. It was cool until the other superman showed up. Superman 1 knew what he was doing, but superman 2 was a bit of a noob... then we ran into a killstealing Superman that started griefing us. It wasn't long until Superman 1 reported Superman 3, but superman 2 couldn't figure out what was going on...)
Downside: by changing the ordinal based on the number currently appearing in the zone and hiding the global completely, persistence becomes challenging. Is that superman the same superman you teamed with last night, but forgot to /gfriend?
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The rub is that in game, it would still be relatively rare that people would be teaming with more than one of their namesakes unless the name was incredibly unimaginative like THE SHADOW or something stupid like that.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
At the same time, if I was reading a Batman comic and he came across a guy fighting crime named Batman@MichaelKeaton who was teamed up with Batman@AdamWest and they were off to find Batman@ChristianBale to help them defeat Catwoman@MichellePfiffer and Catwoman@JulieNewmar, I'd probably set the book down. On a lit stove burner.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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If they are willing to pay real money to keep the name then they're entitled to keep it.| This would just result in a wave of people re-subbing a week before the scrub just to secure their name before vanishing again at the end of the month. |
If someone got the name you wanted before you then they get it and you don't. Run over to Home Depot, buy a hammer, nails and some wood, then build a bridge and get over it.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Instead of an involuntary name grab, how about a voluntary one?
Show of hands: Who, for a variety of reasons, is squatting on a dozen or more perfectly acceptable character names on obvious non-starter toons scattered across a couple of servers?
(Raises hand.)
Maybe it's time to admit that the character concept that doesn't gel after 1000 days isn't going to happen and set those names free.
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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As a one-off with a supposed reason beyond "Lots of people thought it was a cool name"? Sure. As a continuing milieu? Ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
...Yet we had a whole series after Death of Superman where multiple people claimed the title as a successor.
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I'd give +rep to Johnny Butane right now for trying to use logic and reason while being essentially dogpiled by an unruly mob who loves their ad hominems, slippery slopes and strawmen (you know I had to throw that word into this thread, muhaha). That has to be somewhere between very brave and foolhardy.
Just remember that just because you do or don't have a problem with something doesn't mean everyone else is foolish for being otherwise. That goes for both sides of this "argument".
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Yep name hunting and camping is a pass time. That is why I love the virtue name watch thread makes hunting for names I need easier. Also sometimes you will see a released name and BAM light bulb goes on and you make a new toon becuase of it.
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Originally Posted by Anchor
Instead of an involuntary name grab, how about a voluntary one?
Show of hands: Who, for a variety of reasons, is squatting on a dozen or more perfectly acceptable character names on obvious non-starter toons scattered across a couple of servers? (Raises hand.) Maybe it's time to admit that the character concept that doesn't gel after 1000 days isn't going to happen and set those names free. |
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He's done nothing but hurl the same. He's offered no real reason for changing the existing system other than "I wants it, preciousssss".| I'd give +rep to Johnny Butane right now for trying to use logic and reason while being essentially dogpiled by an unruly mob who loves their ad hominems, slippery slopes and strawmen (you know I had to throw that word into this thread, muhaha) |
People have been raising objections based on actual observed behavior in The Other Game. That means said objections are not irrational.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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OK, I have to ask. Exactly where has he actually said anything like this? I've read this entire thread and I didn't see him trying to lord his opinion over anyone else. What I have seen is a whole bunch of others instantly foaming at the mouth because he didn't simply blindly accept their initial reactions and instead had to the audacity to ask for reasons why they felt the way they did. Like, seriously?|
Originally Posted by Venture
He's done nothing but hurl the same. He's offered no real reason for changing the existing system other than "I wants it, preciousssss".
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| People have been raising objections based on actual observed behavior in The Other Game. That means said objections are not irrational. |
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I got a couple really good names around when CoV was released that had to be due to freeing up names. Sure, I'm only one example, but it does happen.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
2) It has not been proven that any kind of name purge will free up any of the names that people are seeking. It is known that previous purges had VERY little impact- both from dev statements and anecdotal evidence. Even among those names freed, we don't know how many are DESIRABLE names and how many of these long-departed players were stuck using alphanumeric substitution and 1337 speak to get what they want. Either way, if you "raise the threshold" to increase the # of desirable names freed, then you also raise the barrier mentioned in #1.
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And so what if it only frees up a few names that people will want? That's a few more happy players. For some people, a good name and character concept can reinvigorate their interest in the game as much as new content.
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Best example:|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
OK, I have to ask. Exactly where has he actually said anything like this? I've read this entire thread and I didn't see him trying to lord his opinion over anyone else. What I have seen is a whole bunch of others instantly foaming at the mouth because he didn't simply blindly accept their initial reactions and instead had to the audacity to ask for reasons why they felt the way they did. Like, seriously?
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This is a fallacy. The fact there are other names available is irrelevant. There are always going to be "names" available, even if they are just random letters. The question is how far do you have to go from the name you want before it's not the name you want anymore. You personally may not have minded going 'Jack Wild', but you do not speak for everyone. Accept that other people do mind. Since you are very flexible about names, how would the system allowing duplicate character names hurt you? You seem all too willing to just use another name if you found too many people using one you like. If someone wants to use the name Shadow Lord, they should be allowed to. They should not be blocked from having it because four years ago someone took the name, got it to level 25 and then walked away from the game never to return. That's not something a name purge would affect. Nor would it be fair if that person did come back and found themselves Generic'ed. The preferable alternative, the one that serves both people equally and hurts both the least, is to allow duplicate names. |
That you have to accept the other people do mind - no question he is "lording" that you have to accept it.
That you have to allow other players to use names. No choice but to accept.
And then ends in what the preferable alternative is - yes, "preferable" for who? Just how did he come to that conclusion. Ah, his lordship.
So yeah, like seriously.
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And they got their answer. You have no information and just an opion that is the "preferable" alternative.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No, but I bet the devs do, and they're the ones who floated the idea at HeroCon, likey for a reason.
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You have got to be kidding me.|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
See he tells another player that their opinion is fallacy. With nothing to support it.
That you have to accept the other people do mind - no question he is "lording" that you have to accept it. That you have to allow other players to use names. No choice but to accept. And then ends in what the preferable alternative is - yes, "preferable" for who? Just how did he come to that conclusion. Ah, his lordship. So yeah, like seriously. |
You really must be seeing an entirely different reply than I am, then.
This sounds more like you're just annoyed that someone is daring to disagree with your opinion more than anything else.
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I've been told as far back as middle school that my writing "reads" very differently from person to person for some reason. What seems innocuous to one person comes across hostile to another. I can assure you I've not been intentionally spewing venom in this thread.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
You have got to be kidding me.
You really must be seeing an entirely different reply than I am, then. |
I am however getting a little vexed that some people seem to be intentionally going out of their way to misconstrue what I've been saying.
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Given a choice between inviting "John Smith" or "Amaz1ng Man," I'd go with John Smith any day. Leet is acceptable if the character is a Freakshow or a hacker or something...in other words, if a leet-speak name is one the character would have chosen for themselves. The same goes for creative misspellings. I used one for a character in AE, where there are no issues with names being taken, because the character would have thought it was cool.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
And really, if you're okay with using the names like "Jimmy Bob Smith" then I don't see why you would have a problem with names written in elite speak. At least with CoH, they have enemies who do that (mind you, Im annoyed by both >_> ).
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
If we went to a system where two people could have the same character name, people would know that and would learn to check the global name when someone was obviously trying to troll a name.
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
At the same time, if I was reading a Batman comic and he came across a guy fighting crime named Batman@MichaelKeaton who was teamed up with Batman@AdamWest and they were off to find Batman@ChristianBale to help them defeat Catwoman@MichellePfiffer and Catwoman@JulieNewmar, I'd probably set the book down. On a lit stove burner.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
This would just result in a wave of people re-subbing a week before the scrub just to secure their name before vanishing again at the end of the month.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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They've made you into a pariah, now. They wouldn't listen to you even if you tried to argue that water was wet.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I've been told as far back as middle school that my writing "reads" very differently from person to person for some reason. What seems innocuous to one person comes across hostile to another. I can assure you I've not been intentionally spewing venom in this thread.
I am however getting a little vexed that some people seem to be intentionally going out of their way to misconstrue what I've been saying. |
It's just so ludicrous, especially when I saw another thread somewhere on this board where someone else was getting hammered for doing what almost everyone else in this thread has been doing to you. So yeah, they're rather inconsistent too. It tells me this is more about who is popular than anything else, and they'll manufacture a reason to hate if one isn't there. That sort of thing really grates on me.
That others have said this board is so wonderful for being friendly always makes me laugh. It might be "less petty and hateful" but that's not really the same thing now, is it? Haha.
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I wouldn't go that far. |
Originally Posted by Venture
He's done nothing but hurl the same. He's offered no real reason for changing the existing system other than "I wants it, preciousssss".
People have been raising objections based on actual observed behavior in The Other Game. That means said objections are not irrational. |
The core issue seems to be that people are less arguing their own point of view and more attacking or rejecting another person's concerns.
Realistically, it comes down to this:
1) FINDING A FREE NAME CAN BE CHALLENGING AND FRUSTRATING. Which is true. Saying "try harder" or "think different" doesn't change that fact. You can use a thesaurus, additional descriptors, or whatever else you want, but its still more work than just naming a character with your first inclination. Let's stop treating people who DO get annoyed as somehow mentally deficient and accept that sometimes a creative vision STARTS with something as central as a name.
2) ANY CHANGE TO A NAME SYSTEM WILL BE CHALLENGING AND FRUSTRATING. Which is also true. Changing an existing system will upset the people that are used to and like that system, even with its flaws. Any new system will be alien to them and will already have a strike against them for taking away what they were comfortable with. Further, as some have mentioned, some take a kind of pride in being the first to claim a unique identity and don't like the idea of that feature being taken away.
This is NOT selfishness- the naming rulesset is no different than any other rules in the game- people are going to find pride in doing something well... and that great name they snared is a reward for playing the rules well. Changing the rules NOW can take away that sense accomplishment and forces them into something that may feel more cumbersome.
3) NOT EVERY CHANGE IS EQUAL.
-A name purge that has a low risk of alienation probably will also have a low rate of successful purges, so might not be worth the development time.
-A purge system that's more aggressive may be successful in freeing more names, but alienate more people, so might be too risky to develop.
-A universal "@global" is visibly intrusive, affecting all chat experiences.
-A hidden "@global/uid" is less intrusive, but adds some risk of impersonation to the uninitiated (it would not affect reporting, as a hidden global/uid would be appended to the logs)
This is where I see the most anxiety and mistruth, but then again, for me #3 is just an intellectual exercise. My decisions' made up in #2. As much as I'd love a "hidden @global" in a new game and strongly empathize with #1, I don't change naming rules unless there's a CRITICAL need, and only then, only if the change can actually meet that need. Neither of those have been established in this debate... yet.
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Not annoyed - you must be reading a totally different reply.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
You have got to be kidding me.
You really must be seeing an entirely different reply than I am, then. This sounds more like you're just annoyed that someone is daring to disagree with your opinion more than anything else. |
Not kidding either. Show me where I am? You can't because you are like the OP and have no supporting information. Just you stating what is so, therefore it is.
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Lots of gold on the surface. Looks very nice for some people. Not so much fun if you disagree.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
They've made you into a pariah, now. They wouldn't listen to you even if you tried to argue that water was wet.
It's just so ludicrous, especially when I saw another thread somewhere on this board where someone else was getting hammered for doing what almost everyone else in this thread has been doing to you. So yeah, they're rather inconsistent too. It tells me this is more about who is popular than anything else, and they'll manufacture a reason to hate if one isn't there. That sort of thing really grates on me. That others have said this board is so wonderful for being friendly always makes me laugh. It might be "less petty and hateful" but that's not really the same thing now, is it? Haha. |
Now where have I seen that kind of thing before before?
"Looks can be deceiving..."
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See, me, I'd fraps it and post it on Youtube.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
At the same time, if I was reading a Batman comic and he came across a guy fighting crime named Batman@MichaelKeaton who was teamed up with Batman@AdamWest and they were off to find Batman@ChristianBale to help them defeat Catwoman@MichellePfiffer and Catwoman@JulieNewmar, I'd probably set the book down. On a lit stove burner.
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Instant COH Meme!
Let's Dance!
Coyote Seven, who is "they"?
I offered a serious reply to a post that's been quoted in there and Butane didn't see fit to respond.
No big deal, but you're coming in here virtually doing what you're accusing others of doing, but to an unnamed group of "they" who you claim are being unfair to the OP.
As per usual... the thread would go well with civil discussion and replies to the respectful people, but instead, the more rude a post is, the more replies it will get.
It doesn't help that the OP has not been entirely respectful.
One extreme comment from an individual against the OP does not lump in the rest (of those who have shared a different opinion than the OP) together.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Well then you're not part of that group then, are you? So what's your problem?|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Coyote Seven, who is "they"?
I offered a serious reply to a post that's been quoted in there and Butane didn't see fit to respond. No big deal, but you're coming in here virtually doing what you're accusing others of doing, but to an unnamed group of "they" who you claim are being unfair to the OP. |
I'm not going to give a specific list of names because:
* a) People can read the thread for themselves.
* b) I'm pretty sure outing anyone specifically like that is frowned upon by the mods
I'm just here to mention that what I've seen so far has been entirely unfair to the OP, who really just wanted to understand why. Instead he got a bunch of people with chips on their shoulders. I entirely don't expect anyone else here to either agree with me be persuaded by me. In fact, I'm pretty sure they'll just start hating me too!
I'm just trying to place the truth where it belongs.
Heroes don't do that sort of thing to be popular.
Even if they don't use the name any more and even if they had never intended to come back before hearing about the purge, they will return just to keep the name.
That's human nature.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus