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You're unbelievable. You start with Sorry and end with that? I am shaking my head in disbelief.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Might lead me to wonder if there's a translational error, Right?
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You're right, read in a monotone I don't see how anyone could construe this as being condescending, dismissive, or derisive...|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
That said, I can understand how I might come across as condescending, dismissive, or derisive. I don't intend to. It's a failure of the medium that inflection and emotion can't be transcribed.
It might serve you better, in the future, to read all posts in a flat monotone without emotion or inflection, whether mine or someone else's, beyond intentional accent (Capital letters, bolding, etc) |
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
No... No... That's just stupidity.
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Sooo |
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
This discussion was civil until you started with the "condescending, dismissive, or derisive" comments and then Penny responded in kind. At this point it's not even a discussion anymore.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Eh, had a reply going but then got to this. Anything is just fallacy to you. Can't argue with that. You are not open to any objections and thought of everything. Can't wait for that email.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
Yes, because details matter and things like the Informal Art Poll proved how giving just two choices gets complicated fast. This is an emotional issue and you are blowing off people's opinions and votes.
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Originally Posted by PennyPA
You just make everything sound so simple and rosey. No players will ever get upset.
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My first reply to him was this one and at no point am I condescending or derisive. His immediate reply to that was to tell me I'm dismissive and that I blow off other people's opinions, and then rhetorically make the Devs look like callous jerks.
-Rachel-
sorry ive been away guys. my account lapsed and i havent resubbed yet. now, rachel, you have been a very bad girl since i have been gone. enough is enough. you have nothign to back up what you are trying to prove and using another game to try to do so is not going to help you. there is absolutely no reason to change the naming system. all of these kinds of "we need a new naming system" threads start because someone is to lazy to use any of various resources to come up with a name and are mad because someone is already using the name they wanted.
as said before, the name of the toon does not need to match the power sets. i infact have a 4 letter name that i use in all of my toons names. that is what people know me by. i use it in every other game i play also. i have absolutely no problems coming up with a name. if i ever do, i use any one or more of the various media we have to help come up with one. yes it takes more then 30 secs, but oh well. i am guaranteed to have a name that no one else has.
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If it wasn't important, why did the Devs -ask- whether it should be changed?|
Originally Posted by SharkerQuint2
sorry ive been away guys. my account lapsed and i havent resubbed yet. now, rachel, you have been a very bad girl since i have been gone. enough is enough. you have nothign to back up what you are trying to prove and using another game to try to do so is not going to help you. there is absolutely no reason to change the naming system. all of these kinds of "we need a new naming system" threads start because someone is to lazy to use any of various resources to come up with a name and are mad because someone is already using the name they wanted.
as said before, the name of the toon does not need to match the power sets. i infact have a 4 letter name that i use in all of my toons names. that is what people know me by. i use it in every other game i play also. i have absolutely no problems coming up with a name. if i ever do, i use any one or more of the various media we have to help come up with one. yes it takes more then 30 secs, but oh well. i am guaranteed to have a name that no one else has. |
Opinions and beliefs aside: If it wasn't important at all, why would the Devs, the final arbiters on whether something hits the game or not, bother to ask the players about it?
Must be important to someone.
-Rachel-
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They weren't. They were statements of facts. You over interpreted there and added things that didn't exist. Oh well.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Aren't condescending, dismissive, or derisive and are, instead, Civil? All three pulled before I commented on a situation being Stupid.
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Maybe just testing the waters and nothing to do with importance? The devs are more aware then people give them credit. It could have been nothing more than "just say it and see what happens" comment. You are making this into a mountain rather than the hill it was.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
If it wasn't important, why did the Devs -ask- whether it should be changed?
Opinions and beliefs aside: If it wasn't important at all, why would the Devs, the final arbiters on whether something hits the game or not, bother to ask the players about it? Must be important to someone. -Rachel- |
Steampunkette's method is known as a Fermi proof, after Enrico Fermi who popularized it (and made rather amazing use of it). The technique when properly employed is valid. In this case, Steampunkette's premises are mostly spoo.
And she wouldn't know a logical fallacy if it bit her head off.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Did anyone else read SPs numbers post as "10% of the players base wants a change that effects 100% of the player base"?
Really not sure how to respond to either of those... Venture's patented "STFU Stupid" comment aside... I'm almost shocked he equated anything I did to a physicist, even if I did, in his not so humble opinion, get it wrong...
Gimme the real numbers, Venture. Gimme the real answer of how many people are online simultaneously, what ATs and time zones, what their population density is in each zone, and how many characters they play on a regular basis.
I'll run those numbers instead of an estimation of the player base that we all know is outdated since the coming of the Golden Child that was Going rogue.
Provide me with the number of players who will all share a single character name at a given time on the server you grabbed all the other numbers from and I'll run them again.
The math is sound. Give me a new set of variables and I'll run it again, and again, and again.
And no, LISAR. I don't think a change should be made that 10% of the population cares about which affects 100%. We don't -know- how much of the population cares about Non-Unique names. That's why i suggested the E-mailed polling method. To ascertain that fact and learn just how many people do or don't care.
The Devs asked about this change. There is a reason they asked. Every time the Devs have asked us for input it's because a change is coming that we might actually have a choice in (See Willpower, Dual Blades, and the Marketing Survey)
I think it might be one of the steps toward the single-server/serverless environment that has been proven functional by a certain other MMO... I also think the question is on the table for the Devs because it was shown that it's a viable option.
Well, Venture and LISAR. What do you two say to the E-Mail based polling?
-Rachel-
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Why would I have anything to say about it?|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Well, Venture and LISAR. What do you two say to the E-Mail based polling?
-Rachel- |
I don't know if an automated poller is ready to go when needed, if this registers high enough for the developers to consider using one, or if the developers have spare time to set it up and go.
I have no prejudice against polling if thats what you want to know though.
The last part would be the one I was interested in. Whether or not you'd agree it's a good idea (assuming the Devs are willing to do it) to get a final answer on the problem, once and for all.
Some other people in this thread don't like the idea of the E-mail poll. Some say it's unneeded, others say it's a bad idea because of all the flaws inherent in voting (missing the voting day, not knowing what to answer, etc etc)
Just wondering which side of the polling problem you two were on. I honestly think it's a simple and fine solution to the whole argument.
-Rachel-
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An email poll isn't a perfect answer but it's a damn decent one. But if a change to the naming scheme was voted down I don't think these threads would stop.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
The last part would be the one I was interested in. Whether or not you'd agree it's a good idea (assuming the Devs are willing to do it) to get a final answer on the problem, once and for all.
Some other people in this thread don't like the idea of the E-mail poll. Some say it's unneeded, others say it's a bad idea because of all the flaws inherent in voting (missing the voting day, not knowing what to answer, etc etc) Just wondering which side of the polling problem you two were on. I honestly think it's a simple and fine solution to the whole argument. -Rachel- |
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Maybe... But my lengthy contributions would end, I can promise that much.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
An email poll isn't a perfect answer but it's a damn decent one. But if a change to the naming scheme was voted down I don't think these threads would stop.
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-Rachel-
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So you would deny the cause almost all sense of logic?
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Maybe... But my lengthy contributions would end, I can promise that much.
-Rachel- |
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If the Poll goes out, and people don't -want- the change and the Devs decide not to put the change in, that's when I know to pack it up. I'm not like some players who when faced with Dev Confirmation or Denial of a topic cling to said topic against all reason, logic and sanity. |
Originally Posted by LISAR
So you would deny the cause almost all sense of logic?
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If the Devs say "No" it's a done deal. There's no reason to chase after it and scream bloody murder about how things should change. I'll keep playing my characters and searching through the Name Watch threads for my next alt.
-Rachel-
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The problem, as you well know, is that no one except the devs has those numbers. Your attempt to calculate those numbers is a fallacy because your starting numbers are just unknown guesses. Your percentages of what 'players will do what' are just guesses. Of who will use which names are just guesses.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Gimme the real numbers, Venture. Gimme the real answer of how many people are online simultaneously, what ATs and time zones, what their population density is in each zone, and how many characters they play on a regular basis.
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In short, your numbers aren't "solid calculations", they're just a series of guesses.
And I have to say that I'm really surprised at your behavior in this thread Rachel. You've always had your opinions, but you've always stood out in my memory as such a nice and courteous person. A definite rarity on the internet. However, in this thread you've been outright abrasive and rude. I mention it only because you don't seem to be aware that that's how people are perceiving your posts in this thread.
Perhaps it's time to step away from the conversation, then.
It appears as if the players are getting exhausted.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
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Errors in your math defy enumeration. You include irrelevant factors and disregard relevant ones. Changing the values isn't going to help. In the immortal words of Dr. Pauli, "this isn't even wrong".| The math is sound. Give me a new set of variables and I'll run it again, and again, and again. |
There are five Ventures in The Other Game. I'm only one of them. There are also fifteen more "Doc Ventures" or such, about half of which are obviously derived from the cartoon. This makes me glad I have the name on all but (IIRC) three servers here.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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That is an absurd statement to make using your own post from a few pages earlier to show you should know that.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Ultimately, Unique naming doesn't work. If it did work there wouldn't have been hundreds of variants of this thread floating around the forums. This wouldn't be a constantly debated topic. And the Devs -wouldn't- have asked at PAX if it should change.
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| Though I'd also like to point out that, when the devs asked, they asked a TINY group representing the population of the game, which isn't an appropriate sampling at all. Even the forum population is hardly an adequate sample-size for such a poll. |
I also doubt if your "election" were held and your side lost you'd stop demanding a change to the naming system.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
I find myself kinda torn on this issue. I did a small stint on another cryptic created game to explore strange new worlds, and they used a system simlar to a character name@Account name. And frankly i didnt really have a problem with it. I guess if i really paided attention im sure i would have seen some duplicate names floating around, but i didnt care to follow it that closely. And i would imagine alot of us here wouldnt either.
I mean sure you might play with Capt Amazing, and see another Capt Amazing from time to time but if you know its not your friend then who cares.
However i think personally i would be much more in favor of a fair name purge policy. I know everyone gets up in arms about this, but i think it can be done in a fair manner that benefits current or so to be back players and ignores those that have no intention of coming back.
For instance i think on a canceled account that any character under the level of 20 should get 4 months to return or be purged. Any character from 20-50 gets 6 months. IMO if you cancel for 6 months the likelihood is you have no intention of coming back. This would probably go beyond that of money shortages, trying out new games, family problems etc. And during a six month period there is probably atleast 2 free activation weekends normally in which time you could log back in and reset your clock if infact one of those issues applies to you.
I also think it would benefit the game in a second way, though yes im sure some might say that those that have been canceled for longer then 6 months may never come back. However i also think it would keep players on the fence wanting to keep their accounts active rather then cancel for a few months here and there.
I also think this purge shouldnt be 100 percent. Meaning i dont think you should lose the name simply because your account is over the due date. I think it should be based on the request to use the name on the server by a current player. Meaning that if i have an average name that could be popular like ...i dont know... Super Frosty... for an ice blaster. I make the toon and the name is taken, if its on an active account then im out of luck. If its on an account that is canceled more then 6 months, (assuming a level 50 toon) then i get an option to take the name or make another. A dialog says This name was used in the past, do you wish to claim it for your new character? Yes or no. Some people might say no simply due to not wanting to usurp anothers name or be mistaken for an old player, some might want the name reguardless. If i say yes then that character is made generic on the canceled account and i get the name, if i say no, then it remains untouched.
Though i personally have no problems usually with making names, i do think thebenefits of the naming rules should be in favor of those currently paying the bills for the game rather then those long since retired.
Imma gonna suggest that Positron's blog entry for this week suggests we're not likely to see another name purge any time soon.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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As I understand it this is how it works now.
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Originally Posted by QuiJon
I also think this purge shouldnt be 100 percent. Meaning i dont think you should lose the name simply because your account is over the due date. I think it should be based on the request to use the name on the server by a current player. Meaning that if i have an average name that could be popular like ...i dont know... Super Frosty... for an ice blaster. I make the toon and the name is taken, if its on an active account then im out of luck. If its on an account that is canceled more then 6 months, (assuming a level 50 toon) then i get an option to take the name or make another. A dialog says This name was used in the past, do you wish to claim it for your new character? Yes or no. Some people might say no simply due to not wanting to usurp anothers name or be mistaken for an old player, some might want the name reguardless. If i say yes then that character is made generic on the canceled account and i get the name, if i say no, then it remains untouched.
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I didn't get that from it (nor did I get the opposite of course). He said that CoH would "deep storage" characters preserving all but their name. He didn't say that the way CoH was doing it was wrong or a poor way to go about it.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Imma gonna suggest that Positron's blog entry for this week suggests we're not likely to see another name purge any time soon.
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Sorry, Penny. I'm done. I'm not going to respond to you after this post.
The reason I asked about English as a Primary/Secondary language is due to your grammar. I was thinking that, perhaps, it might be a translational error that swapped some words around or simply dropped punctuation or words here or there, leading to communication malfunction. But, apparently, that isn't the case.
That said, I can understand how I might come across as condescending, dismissive, or derisive. I don't intend to. It's a failure of the medium that inflection and emotion can't be transcribed.
It might serve you better, in the future, to read all posts in a flat monotone without emotion or inflection, whether mine or someone else's, beyond intentional accent (Capital letters, bolding, etc)
But I'm sure you can see how a line like this..
-Rachel-