Which arcs would you want to see re-done?
By
Ashcraft,
Posted on: 2010-08-30 01:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I would love to have two options in Scirocco's arc (above what's already there). First - deliver the Malleus Mundi to Arbiter Daos directly. Just, after you have it, walk up to Daos and have the option to say "Here's the Malleus Mundi. Scirocco's got plans to betray Recluse. I want no part of his stupid scheme." The arc could then play out with Scirocco trying to get revenge. |
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I dunno, doesn't Scirocco's arc kind of involve you stopping him from basically making every villain in the world good? And giving GW her body back? I don't think you could just work with him on that and then play it off as actually happening. Scirocco would have to be stopped somehow. >.>
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Second option - carry through as written, defy Arbiter Daos when he tells you to turn on Scirocco. Great for the "Etoile Isles Patriot" sorts. How the story works out? The Malleus Mundi is fake, or incomplete, or simply doesn't have the power to do what Scirocco thinks it does. Scirocco's plot still fails, and you and he have to live together with the fallout (you get the same excuse Scirroco does; both had the audacity to try something, so you get a slap on the wrist, not a putting down.)
The "Automatic Villainy" arc from Technician Naylor. Now that we have Doppleganger tech, this arc should be redone so Nemesis actually does have an automaton of you and you have to fight it. You could also change the Fake Grant Naylor to actually look like Naylor as opposed to looking like a generic Nemesis boss.
The Resistance arc where you have to plant bombs in mailboxes...saw that happen here in the 70s with the FLQ, no thanks.
Any of the hero arcs that are 15+ missions long and do no more than offer glowie clicks or defeat alls.
A lot of the low level stuff, honestly. It's running around doing hunts and boss defeats.
Synapse TF...
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I'd say that such a revamp is worth a lot more than two new zones. It will be a big boon for veterans running new characters and new players won't be wondering why there is such a discrepancy in the quality of blueside missions.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Everything blueside. I'm not kidding. Take every damn contact and every damn zone and overhaul them. Give some cohesion between contacts. Give each zone and overlying plot, like the Hollows and Faultline have. So, for Kings Row it has you digging into the Skulls backstory and their drug pushing and black magic. Talos sees you going up against the Warrios and the Freakshow as they try to out-duke each other. Independence Port sees you crack down on the drug and weapon smuggling war between the Tsoo and the Family, maybe even link in the Council and such, which could then in turn lead logically to Striga Isles.
The old content is so. Damn. Old and Rusted, its painful. The storyline is bogged down under terrible mission layouy, boring defeat alls and hunts, multi-zone hops and hop backs, before they even give you a damn cellphone number....painful, boring, not fun. Cohesion and revamp is worth two new zones. Period. |
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Originally Posted by Organica
Synapse is in worse shape than Citadel and Manticore. Citadel and Manticore can be faulted as boring, but you can do them inside an hour. Synapse, however, suffers from much of what the old Positron TF suffered from -- a massive slog through multiple defeat alls with relatively low-level heroes. It's the longest of the current Phalanx TFs. It does end with a bang, I'll give it that, but I don't think having a unique last map and two big fights at the end make up for the rest of the TF.
The Shadow Shard TFs are, of course, the most desperately abysmal TFs out there, but Synapse is a TF that nearly everyone in the game can do. In a perfect world, they'd all get an overhaul, of course. ^_^ |
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
I'm told the phone number thing is fixed, and hero contacts are supposed to give it out after the first mission or two. But I haven't touched i0 hero contact missions in years, so I can't personally vouch for it. Otherwise, yes, I generally agree. More specifically, though...
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
But I'm apparently the only person who doesn't think Croatoa as-is is the bee's knees.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
I dunno, doesn't Scirocco's arc kind of involve you stopping him from basically making every villain in the world good? And giving GW her body back? I don't think you could just work with him on that and then play it off as actually happening. Scirocco would have to be stopped somehow. >.>
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Anything that does the same mission twice or more in a row (e.g. Unai & Citadel) or does more than one street hunt in the entire arc.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
All of the random mission street hunts should be dropped - it feels too much like your contact is busy and throws it out for the pesky hero to do to get you off their back. Replace them with real missions. None of the villain contacts (that I'm aware of) do this. I've seen hero contacts, especially the ones in IP, give out 3 or 4 of these in a row.
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As for a TF I want to see reworked at bit, it's the LGTF.
- Fix it so that Team Recall no longer can teleport Penny Yin. It's a really cheap exploit.
- Allow Infernia and Glacia to walk while they talk, and fix it so that they spawn at the same time like they used to.
- Either remove the need to escort Infernia and Glacia, making them regular allies, or allow them to escape on their own so that them dieing does not fail the mission.
Yes, I'm asking the Devs to kill many of the tricks speed runners use. Maybe then we can get more decent TF teams than people who just expect to stealth everything, plus a possible increase to the amount of merits that the LGTF awards.
Here is the rules I would like to lay down for all new arcs and old arc revamps.
- Arcs should be a minimum of 3 missions long. Most should be a maximum of 5 missions long. A few special arcs may be a maximum of 7 missions long. 8 missions is much too long. 10 missions is right out!
- No mission on anything larger than a tiny or small sized map may be a kill-all.
- A single escort to the door is allowed. If there is more than one captive, make them a regular self-escaping captive.
- No hunt missions in the middle of arcs!
- If a mission requires me to talk to another contact and I already have their phone number, allow me to just call them! (Praetoria has this so we know it can be done.)
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One blueside, Reduce the fluff missions, streamline the contacts, and give everyone a blasted story arc at early levels. Having Frostfire as the only choice sucks. I hate that mission. <Bleep> bloody well cheats.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Everything blueside. I'm not kidding. Take every damn contact and every damn zone and overhaul them. Give some cohesion between contacts. Give each zone and overlying plot, like the Hollows and Faultline have. So, for Kings Row it has you digging into the Skulls backstory and their drug pushing and black magic. Talos sees you going up against the Warrios and the Freakshow as they try to out-duke each other. Independence Port sees you crack down on the drug and weapon smuggling war between the Tsoo and the Family, maybe even link in the Council and such, which could then in turn lead logically to Striga Isles.
The old content is so. Damn. Old and Rusted, its painful. The storyline is bogged down under terrible mission layouy, boring defeat alls and hunts, multi-zone hops and hop backs, before they even give you a damn cellphone number....painful, boring, not fun. Cohesion and revamp is worth two new zones. Period. |
Give each hazard zone a story arc. There is no reason to go into them, and really there never was.
Yes, Villains need more zones. Hands down. At minimum give them access to the Shadow Shard as a co-op zone, and I still think that Striga should be made co-op as well, or at least give villains access.
Every blueside hazard zone needs to get the Striga treatment, just don't make the arcs so damn long. On that note, some of the Striga arcs need to be trimmed down as well, there is a lot of fluff in some of them.
Perez Park needs to become a viable alternative to the Hollows again. Maybe the Hydra can get some low level arcs dealing with them.
Boomtown should actually have some reconstruction efforts going on in it like that one villain mission shows. Also it could have 5th Column looking for where Reichsman has been hidden or something.
Dark Astoria needs some contacts and arcs dealing with the supernatural threats inside the zone. I would also like to see the ranks of the Banished Pantheon expanded a bit and for them to have a trial set under Moth Cemetery where we stop them from awakening The Sleeper.
I have no ideas at the moment for Eden or Crey's Folly. At least Eden has a trial in it already.
Since the phasing tech allows contacts to disappear from the world, I think the Red side Patron Arcs should have an option to destroy your patron and take their place, and from then on they'd be "gone" if you went to where they were.
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That's one of those things I strongly doubt we'll ever see happen. Not that I don't like the story possibilities that could come out of it, but...|
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Since the phasing tech allows contacts to disappear from the world, I think the Red side Patron Arcs should have an option to destroy your patron and take their place, and from then on they'd be "gone" if you went to where they were.
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The world belongs to the signature characters. We're allowed to have our own adventures in it, but outshine one of the signature characters? Never. We can occasionally aspire to be on par with them (at least that's what the game tells us -- you'll never see that concept in action), but replace them? That'll be the day.
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Revamp blueside's TFs and at the very least the 1-20 level range. Preferablly all of blueside though.
Also, revamp Mercy Island and Port Oakes. As it stands I barely even spend any time in PO before its time to go to Cap.
Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
You know... this might make a great MA challenge, even if the arc of your choice needs to be broken up over two or three MA arcs.
Just sayin'...
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Agreed. I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd like to see Boomtown get the Faultline treatment sooner rather than later. The Freedom Phalanx's headquarters used to be in that zone, so the zone arc could revolve around an Arachnos/5th Column/whatever plot to get into the ruins and do something nefarious.
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Originally Posted by Lazarus
Boomtown should actually have some reconstruction efforts going on in it like that one villain mission shows. Also it could have 5th Column looking for where Reichsman has been hidden or something.
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Goodbye, I guess.
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Solely in terms of value-for-time-invested, I'd suggest revamping the i0 Task Forces. They get run a great deal by characters of all levels. Of course, they'd be shortened, which would reduce the number of merits they grant, which would cause screaming, whining, and ragequits.
Next, I'd suggest reworking every single contact in the 30's, starting with CoV, then CoH. I'm tired of doing the same leveling path through there every single time. I suggest CoV come first because (1) the first thing I want revamped is the Freedom Phalanx Task Force group, and this gives CoV some parity, and (2) because, while the villain arcs are marginally better than the i0 hero arcs that dominate the level range on the hero side, their execution is pretty dull and repetitive, particularly the all-Longbow Nerva arcs.
I think we're all dreaming if we think anything will ever get rewritten, though. Despite years of the player base screaming itself hoarse over the issue, the devs don't seem to realize that many (a majority of?) players prefer improvements and revamps to entirely new stuff.
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In another thread on a similar topic of revamps, I too zeroed in on the 30-39 content. I think both red and blueside, this content was wrapped up under the harshest of deadlines prior to game launch and expansh-alone launch. Personally I think the blueside 30-34 i0 content is the absolute worst in the game as it stands. That would be my vote for an arc or two of revamp, but I do understand the logic you're applying above.|
Originally Posted by Olantern
Next, I'd suggest reworking every single contact in the 30's, starting with CoV, then CoH. I'm tired of doing the same leveling path through there every single time. I suggest CoV come first because (1) the first thing I want revamped is the Freedom Phalanx Task Force group, and this gives CoV some parity, and (2) because, while the villain arcs are marginally better than the i0 hero arcs that dominate the level range on the hero side, their execution is pretty dull and repetitive, particularly the all-Longbow Nerva arcs.
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And in any case, I agree. That level 30-39 content is not the best work done by Cryptic-***-Paragon.
Redo 'Ubelmann the Unknown' to a) be about the 5th Column and the nazis again and b) to have a new final mission where you follow him through the portal into a new map with custom enemies.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Penny can also be killed. She's a combatant. That's what's been done on the two MoLGTF runs I've been on: send a Scrapper or Brute to free Penny and then let her get killed while the rest of the team waits at the door. Apparently relying on the Tank/Brute to eat a couple of purples so they don't get killed by the CWK is too risky or something.|
Originally Posted by Lazarus
As for a TF I want to see reworked at bit, it's the LGTF.
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| Yes, I'm asking the Devs to kill many of the tricks speed runners use. Maybe then we can get more decent TF teams than people who just expect to stealth everything, plus a possible increase to the amount of merits that the LGTF awards. |
Why yes, I do hate speed runs. I especially hate that they have become the standard, and if you don't do them you're weird and and nobody wants to play with you, or if they do play with you they stealth ahead and teleport everybody anyway. The only reason I don't suggest doing anything to change the third mission is that it's so laggy everybody bypasses it, even the few "let's kill 'em all" players I know.
We should start with the ITF and LGTF because they are newer, and do not suck. The older TFs should remain speed-runnable until they stop sucking, or until they stop being needed for an accolade.
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Originally Posted by Olantern
Solely in terms of value-for-time-invested, I'd suggest revamping the i0 Task Forces. They get run a great deal by characters of all levels. Of course, they'd be shortened, which would reduce the number of merits they grant, which would cause screaming, whining, and ragequits.
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While we're on the subject of TFs and getting people to run them, reduce the number of people needed to start them. There is no reason any of the heroside TFs below level 40 should require more than four people to start. TFs over 40 shouldn't require more than six. If I and a few of my friends decide we want to run a TF, we shouldn't be standing around for half an hour spamming global channels to try to convince more people to join us because of some arbitrary number the devs decided was needed six years ago.
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| I think we're all dreaming if we think anything will ever get rewritten, though. Despite years of the player base screaming itself hoarse over the issue, the devs don't seem to realize that many (a majority of?) players prefer improvements and revamps to entirely new stuff. |
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Wait a minute, are you saying that you can deliberately fail missions and still get the "Master of" badge for the LGTF? That right there is just flat out wrong!|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Penny can also be killed. She's a combatant. That's what's been done on the two MoLGTF runs I've been on: send a Scrapper or Brute to free Penny and then let her get killed while the rest of the team waits at the door. Apparently relying on the Tank/Brute to eat a couple of purples so they don't get killed by the CWK is too risky or something.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
While we're on the subject of TFs and getting people to run them, reduce the number of people needed to start them. There is no reason any of the heroside TFs below level 40 should require more than four people to start. TFs over 40 shouldn't require more than six. If I and a few of my friends decide we want to run a TF, we shouldn't be standing around for half an hour spamming global channels to try to convince more people to join us because of some arbitrary number the devs decided was needed six years ago.
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While we're on the topic of TFs, the Shard TFs need a lot less running back to Paragon City, for any reason. Especially now that Rogues can run them as well and won't have access to the SG telepads that hero players might have nor hero version of oroborous.
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Then disable exp gain during the filler. Duh.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
That isn't the point. The point is I want to level off of content, not filler. If there is enough content available to level through playing content, there is no longer any point to doing filler.
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Just another one to add: The final VEAT mission.
Now, I know all the VEAT content gets a fair bit of stick, but I didn't mind doing the other arcs. My only real issue with them was the length (or rather, the lack of it). But the final one, well, where do I start?
"Go kill Statesman"
"Why?"
"Cos"
And that's it. You're a total bad***, you've taken down pretty much everything the Rogue Isles and Paragon City can throw at you, you're finally going to go after the big good, and all you get is a single crappy mission with no build up. And a stupid speech about powerset proliferation.
After seeing how few Merits the New Positron TF is now, I would probably suggest working on the TFs that reward low merit numbers.
Eden would be a good place to start. Its one of the best Trial Maps in the game. Sadly, its also quite feature rich*
*You need a 39-41 to start it (since its bugged and won't let anyone above 42 start it)
*Thanks to all the Speeden runs its worth only 7 merits. The Titan-O isn't very useful either.
So in this case, I would vote for an Eden revamp.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
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Yep I would love this, and you already have some great ideas for what the zones should be like. A Tsoo vs. Family Independence Port zone would be awesome. I love the 20-30 stuff because everything still feels very grounded and real. After 30 things go a bit super, which is cool. Just I love fighting your common day thugs or mafia. ;-)|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Everything blueside. I'm not kidding. Take every damn contact and every damn zone and overhaul them. Give some cohesion between contacts. Give each zone and overlying plot, like the Hollows and Faultline have. So, for Kings Row it has you digging into the Skulls backstory and their drug pushing and black magic. Talos sees you going up against the Warrios and the Freakshow as they try to out-duke each other. Independence Port sees you crack down on the drug and weapon smuggling war between the Tsoo and the Family, maybe even link in the Council and such, which could then in turn lead logically to Striga Isles.
The old content is so. Damn. Old and Rusted, its painful. The storyline is bogged down under terrible mission layouy, boring defeat alls and hunts, multi-zone hops and hop backs, before they even give you a damn cellphone number....painful, boring, not fun. Cohesion and revamp is worth two new zones. Period. |
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Originally Posted by Jophiel
World Wide Red. I wish this arc was tightened up a bit. I suppose I enjoyed it the first time around but I have no desire to ever slog through it again. Even with the payoff at the end, it felt like it took forever.
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
After seeing how few Merits the New Positron TF is now, I would probably suggest working on the TFs that reward low merit numbers.
Eden would be a good place to start. Its one of the best Trial Maps in the game. Sadly, its also quite feature rich* *You need a 39-41 to start it (since its bugged and won't let anyone above 42 start it) *Thanks to all the Speeden runs its worth only 7 merits. The Titan-O isn't very useful either. So in this case, I would vote for an Eden revamp. |
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I think the main reason the merit rewards for the old stuff is so high is that very few people would do them otherwise. When you have to essentially bribe players to play content then there's something wrong with that content. I'm not talking about risk vs reward either. I'm talking about boredom vs reward.
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Originally Posted by Peacemoon
I have to agree, a lot of the new arcs and TF's are seriously low in merits. Where most of the classic stuff is 20~ merits, the new stuff is always between 5-10. Something feels messed up, but I would love the new arcs to be brought up to par with the old ones.
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That is one theory, another would be that the datamining just shows how slow people used to do arcs "back in the day" when they were 'current content' |
Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree
I think the main reason the merit rewards for the old stuff is so high is that very few people would do them otherwise. When you have to essentially bribe players to play content then there's something wrong with that content. I'm not talking about risk vs reward either. I'm talking about boredom vs reward.
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Then there would be no Baraccuda SF.
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Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Since the phasing tech allows contacts to disappear from the world, I think the Red side Patron Arcs should have an option to destroy your patron and take their place, and from then on they'd be "gone" if you went to where they were.
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Well let's see..
First off I completely agree that Citadel could use work to make it more entertaining. And that one had a face lift a while back.. it used to be you got to those three defeat all missions toward the end and ran to IP to a cave just under the bridge and NEVER left. Three straight missions in the exact same spot and they even used the exact same map inside. Only difference was the type of soldiers the Council had manning it.
I'd love to see Synapse reworked for the same reason. Okay i get it we battle Clockwork but three missions in a row defeating all the CW in the sub station followed by a quick patrol and then ANOTHER defeat all mission? Can we AT the very least change one or two of thsoe to Defeat the leader? Generally I can't wait to head to Boomtown cause it signals and end to the defeat alls and also lets you know your close to the end. NOW I do love the mission that spawns Babbage .. don't take that out since getting to battle a GM is fun.. to me anyway LOL
I have said it before here DO something with the Shadow Shard. I was tired of battling the Rikti and the same collection of villains a long time ago and decided to hit the shard and run a few story arcs there since I knew they had a whole different set of villains. Boy was Isuprised when I discovered not one contact, aside from the TFs, actually had one. Its all just a collection of side missions with no story line at all. Its a very unique and interesting zone visually and the villians are unique as well.. Can we please add some story lines that correspond to the Canon plot for the whole zone? General Hammond is in charge but at times I felt like someone had slipped Daniel Jackson's brain into his head .. if we weren't rescuing missing soldiers we were hunting for artifacts.
I also agree with what little there is in Cimerora. I saw so much potential for the zone and I envisioned something along the lines of the revamped RWZ with 3-4 contacts giving missions out all the way from 35-50. Add some contacts and start with an arc at 35 focused mainly on the Cimerorian traitors, at 40 an arc concerning 5th Column and the Nictus. at 45 .. why not add something concerning the Midnighter's Club? We HAVE to enter the zone through there but once we arrive we never hear from them again? The TF and the zone are a travel back in time if the Club's not involved at all in the zone why isn't the portal in Ouroborus? A lot of potential that could be tapped JUST like the Shard.
The Midnighter's club itself.. Mercedes Shelton's arc are not bad but that's all we get? This could easily be another 35-50 level zone. Different contacts could send us out to battle everything from Banished Pantheon, Circle of Thorns and Tsoo (all with magical backgrounds) and as we know the club was a big part of winning the war against the Rikti. Why not a few missions revolving around the Rikti mages? At least on COV we can run some missions against them from Darrin Wade and even steal artifacts from the club itself but hero side they just sort of threw up a few buildings Gave us an arc to get in and then Mercedes at level 20 and said OKAY we're done.
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(I already sort of explored the 'what NEW content would you want to see' in this thread, again drawing on foundations that had been sort of laid in the game but not actively pursued or developed.)
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