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Great news, I say. Time to get around to respeccing my SD/DM and Ice/SS, I think!
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
The Issue 18 NDA was lifted today, so here's a new inherent ability that will be possessed by all Tankers: Bruising
The Bruising effect is added to all Tanker secondary tier-1 powers. When a tier-1 power hits an enemy, a 20% resistable damage resistance debuff is applied to that enemy for 10 seconds. Only one debuff as the result of this effect can be active on a target at any given time, even if multiple Tankers are attacking them. However, the durations of separate applications are allowed to overlap. So it's possible for even a single Tanker to keep the debuff going as long as they hit the enemy with their tier-1 power at least once every 10 seconds. As an added bonus, the Tanker maximum health multiplier has been increased from 2 to 2.2. This means that at level 50, a Tanker's maximum health when buffed increases from 3213 to 3534. |
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
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Quote:
My Inv/Ax is singin' with joy!|
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
The Issue 18 NDA was lifted today, so here's a new inherent ability that will be possessed by all Tankers: Bruising
The Bruising effect is added to all Tanker secondary tier-1 powers. When a tier-1 power hits an enemy, a 20% resistable damage resistance debuff is applied to that enemy for 10 seconds. Only one debuff as the result of this effect can be active on a target at any given time, even if multiple Tankers are attacking them. However, the durations of separate applications are allowed to overlap. So it's possible for even a single Tanker to keep the debuff going as long as they hit the enemy with their tier-1 power at least once every 10 seconds. As an added bonus, the Tanker maximum health multiplier has been increased from 2 to 2.2. This means that at level 50, a Tanker's maximum health when buffed increases from 3213 to 3534. |
I just got a straight-up 20 percent damage buff! (I always used my tier1 for the gauntlet and knockdown, this is just....awesome.)
Plus the extra 300 hit points ain't too bad either.
Thanks Devs! Woooo!
I've been wanting to scream this bit of info in the tanker forums for the past couple of weeks. I'm glad everyone gets to know about it now!
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Excellent. This should definitely help Tankers out across all levels, really.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
-eats popcorn and watches history get revised-
.
Quote:
Does that revision depict you as less of a troll?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-eats popcorn and watches history get revised-
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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I'm sorry, where does it say that anything you've suggested got implemented?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-eats popcorn and watches history get revised-
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
From what I gather JB thinks this change is pretty "meh" in his mind and doesn't go "far enough".
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I like the Bruising concept... it's nice, and allows for a little change/buff to tanks. I think it's a great idea. I'm less keen on the lack of stacking for tanks. That is one arguable thing you could say about tanks (that having more than one isn't "needed"), and bruising doesn't help much with this, as you're only facing multiple AVs at so many times, even if this will help with multiple bosses.
Kind of so-so on the health cap increase. It's nice, don't get me wrong, but it's mostly only going to help Tanker Primaries that give +HP in some way. So yay for my Invuln and WP tankers, but meh on Grey Pilgrim, my Fire tanker. He has all the accolades and a decent smattering of HP bonuses on his defensive build, and he's still only at about 2400 HP. And Healing Flames still only goes off of your base hp before bonuses.
So unless they did something to change base hp for Tankers... not really seeing much boost from this part of things.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Reposted from Beta Forums:
Why was Bruising implemented as a 20% damage resistance debuff rather than a straight up increase in Tankers damage across the board? What benefits does that bring that the later approach does not?
- It increases the Tankers overall damage output while solo, but the amount it increases by changes as you level. Once you have a complete attack chain, you see lower returns on using the attack. It benefits single target sets slightly more than AoE heavy sets.
- It increases the Tankers TEAMS overall damage against "Hard Targets" such as AV's, while not affecting AoE effects much at all.
- It provides greater functionality to an attack which all Tankers must take, but tend to relegate to disuse at higher levels. It is now a distinct gameplay decision to include this power in your attack chain.
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I can see why you made this change versus a straight damage buff (it's also more interesting, adds flavor, etc.), but is there a way for it to stack at all with another Tanker? I realize this is supposed to mostly help while solo (kind of like the new change to Defender's Vigilance), but aside from soloing, stacking Tankers on a team can also be said to have more limited use.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Reposted from Beta Forums:
Why was Bruising implemented as a 20% damage resistance debuff rather than a straight up increase in Tankers damage across the board? What benefits does that bring that the later approach does not?
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Personally, I like having more than one Tanker on a Master run, and I'll never say no to having more than one tank, but making this ability work with more than one tank hitting the same target would probably be a good idea.
Just putting that out there while you are (probably?) around.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I agree that some minor stacking would be nice, to the point it would only add up to around 30% on a team of 8 tanks. I'm not sure how it would be applied with multiple teams around without causing issues.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Exactly what I was thinking Pilgrim. As of now, there's really no need to have more than one tanker on a team (sometimes not even one is needed). But here's some food for thought from Castle's perspective, suppose there was a team of say 8 tankers and this ability was stackable. Would their combined debuff be enough to make them easily able to take down the AV themselves? Exactly how powerful is a 120% resistance debuff? Of course, this is an extreme case.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I can see why you made this change versus a straight damage buff (it's also more interesting, adds flavor, etc.), but is there a way for it to stack at all with another Tanker? I realize this is supposed to mostly help while solo (kind of like the new change to Defender's Vigilance), but aside from soloing, stacking Tankers on a team can also be said to have more limited use.
Personally, I like having more than one Tanker on a Master run, and I'll never say no to having more than one tank, but making this ability work with more than one tank hitting the same target would probably be a good idea. Just putting that out there while you are (probably?) around. |
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
Quote:
This. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I like the Bruising concept... it's nice, and allows for a little change/buff to tanks. I think it's a great idea. I'm less keen on the lack of stacking for tanks. That is one arguable thing you could say about tanks (that having more than one isn't "needed"), and bruising doesn't help much with this, as you're only facing multiple AVs at so many times, even if this will help with multiple bosses.
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My short but strong list of tanker issues until today:
- Gauntlet does not grant too much benefit solo (i never agreed much with it)
- Tanker, at least solo, is meant to leverage slow killing by surviving longer, but pays the same endurance for less damage than any other AT (except defenders) making it not realistic to honestly "last longer" fighting.
- After you have the first tank, the second tank is arguably the lest optimal choice you can get on any team. A second tank is to be picked only under the following conditions:
- Nothing else lfg and need to fill
- Buddy wants team
- First tanker just refuses to tank and dont want to kick him.
With Going Rogue and Bruise this gets slightly modified.
Item 1 gets removed as now solo, gauntlet does something.
Item 2 also improves. Solo endurance issues, get alleviated (at tops, this sort of increases endurance efficiency by up to 20% in single target)
3 does not change.
A new item gets added: Brutes are now hero side. Their fury generation heavily favors grabbing aggro, making tankers in a team wit a brute counter-productive.
In addition to that the brute gets to generate more hate than the tanker (taunt duration [same for both] * threat mod [same for both] * damage [much higher for brute]) meaning a tanker can only provide tanking service for a brute if the tanker spams taunt and the brute never uses taunt. This means brutes are nearly immune to the benefits of having a tanker in the team, while at the same time any other support AT (all of them buffers) can turn the brute in a tank. Brutes are a popular AT and in many teams the tanker will be considered the worse support AT to pick and the worse dps at to pick.
In theory you could argue that a tanker at least can bring Bruise, but a small calculation of team sizes show that in no case is the buff enough to make the entire team do more damage than replacing the tanker with any other AT. Much less when you consider Bruise is Single Target.
All this rolls up in one new item:
- Due to Brute incompatibility, Tankers are now the worse support AT and the worse DPS AT with only survivability as a selling point.
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Guess I need to go find a new favorite AT. |
Originally Posted by Starsman
Due to Brute incompatibility, Tankers are now the worse support AT and the worse DPS AT with only survivability as a selling point.[/LIST]
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- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
Bruising helps low level Tanks solo- beating down Lts. and Bosses can get boring. For it to be stackable, the percent would probably have to be lower, which defeats the purpose.
Another little bonus is that Tankers get the best debuff numbers in Kinetic Melee. It's a move towards my idea of helping Tanks stand apart from the other melee ATs by giving them better secondary effects. (I'm not saying that's going to happen, just that I liked that little detail.)
Anyways- Issue 18: Tanks get even more powerful.
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Castle, as a consequence of adding Bruising to Tanker Tier 1 powers ... would you consider an across the board improvement in Gauntlet Taunt Radius and Duration for all Tier 1 powers? You can leave the MAG the same ... just increase the Radius, which is often extremely puny, and the Taunt Duration, which is often the shortest in the entire powerset.
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Originally Posted by Castle
Why was Bruising implemented as a 20% damage resistance debuff rather than a straight up increase in Tankers damage across the board? What benefits does that bring that the later approach does not?
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It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
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Hmmmm, I thought I covered stacking in my other two posts, but maybe I didn't? I don't know how feasible it is, but maybe they could make the debuff lower the more times it was layered on a target, eventually capping out? I'm well aware that there is balance needed with this, so I would like to see multiple Tankers on a team helped in this, while still remaining balanced.|
Originally Posted by Rowdy
Exactly what I was thinking Pilgrim. As of now, there's really no need to have more than one tanker on a team (sometimes not even one is needed). But here's some food for thought from Castle's perspective, suppose there was a team of say 8 tankers and this ability was stackable. Would their combined debuff be enough to make them easily able to take down the AV themselves? Exactly how powerful is a 120% resistance debuff? Of course, this is an extreme case.
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What changes are for sure with Brutes in Going Rogue? I saw mention of their resistance cap being lowered, with their powers getting a slight increase overall to resistance, but it looked like that was removed in Zombie Man's list. I personally thought that was a move in the right direction with Going Rogue. That change would keep them over Scrappers in survivablity, but not overstep on Tankers.
Adjusting aggro generation to favor Tankers more would also make more sense, as Starsman kind of mentioned.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Brutes don't need Tankers to tank for them. Tankers are supposed to protect "squishies". Brutes are far from squishy. |
Originally Posted by Starsman
...A new item gets added: Brutes are now hero side. Their fury generation heavily favors grabbing aggro, making tankers in a team wit a brute counter-productive. In addition to that the brute gets to generate more hate than the tanker (taunt duration [same for both] * threat mod [same for both] * damage [much higher for brute]) meaning a tanker can only provide tanking service for a brute if the tanker spams taunt and the brute never uses taunt. This means brutes are nearly immune to the benefits of having a tanker in the team, while at the same time any other support AT (all of them buffers) can turn the brute in a tank. Brutes are a popular AT and in many teams the tanker will be considered the worse support AT to pick and the worse dps at to pick. In theory you could argue that a tanker at least can bring Bruise, but a small calculation of team sizes show that in no case is the buff enough to make the entire team do more damage than replacing the tanker with any other AT. Much less when you consider Bruise is Single Target. All this rolls up in one new item:
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A Brute should be expected to handle any aggro they bring on themselves. If they bite off more than they can chew, then they should face plant.
Starsman, this is a net buff to Tankers. With the HP buff, they are THE toughest AT in the Game. Bruising helps increase soloing speed and is a force multiplier on a team.
Brutes don't make Tankers obsolete. Scrankers? Yes. Tankers? No way.
I use my Tier 1 all the time due to the recharge times on the rest of my attack powers, so I love this change.
Taste my Frozen Fists of Justice evil doer! Followed quickly by lesser and greater Ice Sword.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
surely interesting to say the least
ill have to see for myself before i go all crazy like the rest of you...castles vision in fire tanks is iffy at best.i dont trust it and i have good reason to.
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I don't know if they could cap it, but it would be possible to make a "barely stacking" bruising - basically using the same tricks as front loaded auras. I have no idea of how cludgy this would end up being, however.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Hmmmm, I thought I covered stacking in my other two posts, but maybe I didn't? I don't know how feasible it is, but maybe they could make the debuff lower the more times it was layered on a target, eventually capping out? I'm well aware that there is balance needed with this, so I would like to see multiple Tankers on a team helped in this, while still remaining balanced.
What changes are for sure with Brutes in Going Rogue? I saw mention of their resistance cap being lowered, with their powers getting a slight increase overall to resistance, but it looked like that was removed in Zombie Man's list. I personally thought that was a move in the right direction with Going Rogue. That change would keep them over Scrappers in survivablity, but not overstep on Tankers. Adjusting aggro generation to favor Tankers more would also make more sense, as Starsman kind of mentioned. |
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Heck, I roll with a Hecatomb proc in Scorch. I'm looking forward to this change.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
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For the record: Although the Bruise debuff is on all T1, it does not affect the T1 power itself (at least not unless you use it again after the first application.)
In short fights this means the "advantage" many may see in Energy Melee's Barrage is not there. You cant apply Bruise and take advantage of Barrage with Bruise, you have to wait for it to recharge (not a short timer) before you can apply it with Bruise.
The Issue 18 NDA was lifted today, so here's a new inherent ability that will be possessed by all Tankers: Bruising
The Bruising effect is added to all Tanker secondary tier-1 powers. When a tier-1 power hits an enemy, a 20% resistable damage resistance debuff is applied to that enemy for 10 seconds. Only one debuff as the result of this effect can be active on a target at any given time, even if multiple Tankers are attacking them. However, the durations of separate applications are allowed to overlap. So it's possible for even a single Tanker to keep the debuff going as long as they hit the enemy with their tier-1 power at least once every 10 seconds.
As an added bonus, the Tanker maximum health multiplier has been increased from 2 to 2.2. This means that at level 50, a Tanker's maximum health when buffed increases from 3213 to 3534.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."