In this issue tankers got.
1.a buff to hp making them considerably more durable than any other melee AT.
2.a new dps buffing inherent (the theme of this thread incidently) that helps considerably with low levels but remains relevant till 50.
3.a monster series of buffs to fire armor (though this is not tanker specific)
4.access to redside where our services have been much desired for a long time.
I see nothing here but win. The only ability we have not been given is a forum verion of the fire fighter backpack for when J_B shows up. Did anyone happen to keep the supersoaker version of the assault rifle? Oh wait tanker forums, never mind.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
I think the HP buff is overstated. How many tanks exceed the HP tank? WP requires (to me) an overexpenditure on IOs to get there (they are better used in defence/recharge) and I'm not sure the upper cap for Inv when it has it's HP buff up.
Sure, it's nice, but only nice for a very small fraction of the community.
The bruising effect is great.
Tanks already were fantastic without these changes 
Dull Pain, Earth's Embrace, and Hoarfrost are the three powers I can think of right off the bat that will push you past the former HP cap easily. Get a cold dom controller/corruptor using Frostworks and any tank can be pushed up that high as well.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I think the best solution to JB's problem is this: Don't allow Scrappers or Brutes to team. With anyone. Ever. That way they can't get the same cut of the rewards that all the other hard working folks on the team can get. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, if that's the tack you're going to argue, then Tankers solo better than a lot of Controllers, and still get the same cut of team rewards as them. Same with Defenders. Same with Peacebringers, I'd argue.
There is always going to be a spectrum of abilities whenever you have a multiple-AT-like setup, with some ATs better at soloing, and some at teaming, with some falling in the middle, able to team and solo decently well. That doesn't mean those ATs are broken. |
(and by no means am I serious)Hm.... BBQ ribs or chicken with Dew BQ (a reference to the person who crafts their own BBQ sauce and is gracious to share it with many folks.). Makin me hungry...
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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As Bunny points out, that change wasn't really equally relevant to all Tanker sets. Keep in mind that it was a buff to the max HP cap. My Inv with Dull Pain and accolades can get there, but I didn't notice a considerable difference.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
1.a buff to hp making them considerably more durable than any other melee AT.
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But to be fair, it was intended to offset the issue with Brute caps, not to improve Tanker survivability all around. That said, do I really have to say which cap of Tankers I think they should have adjusted instead?
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| 2.a new dps buffing inherent (the theme of this thread incidently) that helps considerably with low levels but remains relevant till 50. |
Personally, I don't see an improvement with it. It being on a T1 makes it a wash as far as DPS for some builds. In fact, between the beta boards and here, I've see about a 50/50 split of people who think it's wonderful and people who see no improvement at all. Take from that what you will.
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| 3.a monster series of buffs to fire armor (though this is not tanker specific) |
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| 4.access to redside where our services have been much desired for a long time. |
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| I see nothing here but win. |
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Pardon me for asking (genuine question, not snark): what does WP need recharge for?|
Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
WP requires (to me) an overexpenditure on IOs to get there (they are better used in defence/recharge)
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
[Bruising] being on a T1 makes it a wash as far as DPS for some builds. In fact, between the beta boards and here, I've see about a 50/50 split of people who think it's wonderful and people who see no improvement at all. Take from that what you will.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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It doesn't specifically need recharge at all. However the cost to reward for extra hit points is pretty bad if it is a big focus of WP, while recharge is easy to get and gives big advantages. Having tried to build WP for hp/regen before, spending lots of slots just for .78hp/sec regen is a waste.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Pardon me for asking (genuine question, not snark): what does WP need recharge for?
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Having higher recharge is just perfect for any build
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I understand, and my point is that those people--the posters in question-- are people who think they know the Brute/Scrapper AT. If you have to trudge uphill through fire and brimstone to the forums and beg the powers that be not to make your AT 'obsolete', you're not actually playing it; you're just seeking attention and/or looking for something to complain about.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Yes, of course -- my point is that we have examples of some Brutes whining about their AT, some Tankers whining about theirs, and some Scrappers whining about theirs. yet all three ATs are doing very well. Tanker flaws are as imaginary as Scrapper flaws.
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On a positive note, my Shield/Axe tanker is doing just fine despite the SC nerf. Also I love Bruising. Finally, I can do damage to Freak tanks.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I didn't say that. Re-read.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Top-end DPS builds see no improvement?
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| Well, my understanding is that the plan wasn't to improve top-end DPS builds and make Tankers into damage kings. |
I would hope part of the plan for Bruising was to give something to solo Tankers to make them more than just slightly safer Brutes with fail damage. In which case, yes, I do think the impact of Bruising should be felt by all Tankers.
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| People doing less efficient attack chains find it wonderful? |
I personally tried out Bruising extensively on a very expensive l50 Inv/SS build, a l10 WP/EM, a l28 Fire/SS and a l5 SD/DM and couldn't really percieve a change from Live. I even ran some loose trials with the Inv/SS to see if the number of attacks needed to drop a l50 Rikti Boss had decreased any. It hadn't from what I saw.
So I stand by what I said before. Some people notice an improvement, some people don't.
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Gee, Johnny, you want a high defense and high damage AT? Good luck with that. Why would anyone play anything else, for reasons other than concept?|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I didn't say that. Re-read.
Presumably, the plan was to adress some of the issues Starsman has pointed out earlier in this thread. As also pointed out, Bruising doesn't take care of some of them very well. I would hope part of the plan for Bruising was to give something to solo Tankers to make them more than just slightly safer Brutes with fail damage. In which case, yes, I do think the impact of Bruising should be felt by all Tankers. There didn't seem to be a common denominator of who noticed Bruising making an improvement and who didn't. The beta boards seem to be gone now, but from what I recall I read post from people who I know build well saying they did notice a change for the better and people who've posted looking for build help saying they didn't, and vice versa. I personally tried out Bruising extensively on a very expensive l50 Inv/SS build, a l10 WP/EM, a l28 Fire/SS and a l5 SD/DM and couldn't really percieve a change from Live. I even ran some loose trials with the Inv/SS to see if the number of attacks needed to drop a l50 Rikti Boss had decreased any. It hadn't from what I saw. So I stand by what I said before. Some people notice an improvement, some people don't. . |
On another note, pre-inventions but post GDN/ED, I had a friend of mine who played an energy blaster complaining that my inv/fire seemed to be outdamaging him. That was an opinion, and one I could have proven false.
Try advocacy based on facts, JB.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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Note: Counting the number of attacks used isn't a good indication of whether things have changed. It's possible to hit a target with more attacks but kill faster due to higher dps/dpa. Do I know if that happened in your specific case? No, just saying that's a flawed metric.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I personally tried out Bruising extensively on a very expensive l50 Inv/SS build, a l10 WP/EM, a l28 Fire/SS and a l5 SD/DM and couldn't really percieve a change from Live. I even ran some loose trials with the Inv/SS to see if the number of attacks needed to drop a l50 Rikti Boss had decreased any. It hadn't from what I saw.
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There was like a 1-1.5 second spread in completion time as well. So given lag, at best, it shaved a second off defeating a boss in the same number of attacks. Could just be normal statistical deviation, but if not it's still nothing I'd write home about.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Note: Counting the number of attacks used isn't a good indication of whether things have changed. It's possible to hit a target with more attacks but kill faster due to higher dps/dpa. Do I know if that happened in your specific case? No, just saying that's a flawed metric.
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I'm also waiting to try Bruising out on a ship raid to see how it does on the Magus spawns, but it seems like Praetoria has everyone's attention right now.
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