So what do you want to know about the new merits?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-08-10 11:58 in The Market and Inventions
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Chaos is great.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Merging markets + new merit system + lots more inf destruction + big influx of new/returning players + lots of lowbies being rolled = chaos.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Yes he is and I'm curious to know the reasoning for adding another, relatively less time-consuming way to obtain Pool C and D recipes, tacked with a relatively more time-consuming way of obtaining purples and so on.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Isn't Synapse the 'rewards' dev?
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Essentially, did their datamining show that not enough random recipe rolls were being generated or did it show an abundance of certain items in builds, such as procs, LOTG 7.5s and so on as well as a paucity of certain level ranges being available for market plans. It's likely they added these as a carrot for reward-oriented players to keep them interested in the new content, though I would love to be privy at reward datamining as pertains to random rolls, Merit purchases and even Merit accumulation...
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I think if we go back to the beginning, the original Reward Merits were a bone to the market haters. I view the alignment merits as another step in that direction offering them more ways to skip the market.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
Yes he is and I'm curious to know the reasoning for adding another, relatively less time-consuming way to obtain Pool C and D recipes, tacked with a relatively more time-consuming way of obtaining purples and so on.
Essentially, did their datamining show that not enough random recipe rolls were being generated or did it show an abundance of certain items in builds, such as procs, LOTG 7.5s and so on as well as a paucity of certain level ranges being available for market plans. It's likely they added these as a carrot for reward-oriented players to keep them interested in the new content, though I would love to be privy at reward datamining as pertains to random rolls, Merit purchases and even Merit accumulation... |
I sincerely doubt datamining played any part in the decision. I think it was "people will be doing the tips and alignments instead of reward merit earning things so what can we do to level it out for them and to reward heroes/villains for passing on the ability to travel the other side's zones?"
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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And a way to address the 'short' TFs like Katie, Eden and CAD.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I think if we go back to the beginning, the original Reward Merits were a bone to the market haters.
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I think we've been seeing a large number of "please stay with our game" moves over the last couple years- more ways of getting recipes, faster levelling 10-20 and 40-50, less debt [that may predate the "last couple years" actually], more starting attacks, more ways of skipping travel time, AE ("the badguys will jump down your throat and you don't have to go anywhere") , doubled inf for 50's, temp powers that cover even MORE possible holes in your character, etc. etc. etc.
I'm inclined to think this (well, the "balance point" on this) is one more giveaway. I could be wrong, though; it's happened before and will happen again.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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I think that was applied to the merits to determine reward quantities not a cause for them. Otherwise merits for arcs and Ouroboros wouldn't have been done at all. At least that is my impression/recollection.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
And a way to address the 'short' TFs like Katie, Eden and CAD.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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And as a bone to those doing non-TF/solo content.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
And a way to address the 'short' TFs like Katie, Eden and CAD.
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Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Some folks may remember that I posted a hypothetical scenario like this. I made up the numbers, but not the outcome.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I think all they are doing is undercutting the rare recipe market prices since you can crank those out so fast.
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This seems like it will reduce the price we can get for selling things that reward merits can produce on the market, because it will increase their supply. However, it doesn't look like it's going to reduce the price of Purples or PvPOs by appreciably increasing their (market) supply. That means that if you're running TFs and earning reward merits and selling your resulting loot, it is now going to take you more reward merits to buy a Purple or PvPO. And that sucks donkey butt.
Of course the above assumes two things. (1) That a lot of people who supply the market do this. I don't know how valid that one is. (2) That most of those market actors are rational and will do what is most time efficient. I know this one is false. Therefore I don't know how this will work out in the end.
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*wiggle hand* I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but I don't think merits were a solution that was designed in one big way. I think they saw a way they could handle three or four problems at once (low supply of some property, low feeling of control in players who dislike the market, some task forces being farmed, maybe another I've forgotten because my head is full of OH&S legislation), and someone was opportunistic enough to catalyse them into one singular solution. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I think that was applied to the merits to determine reward quantities not a cause for them. Otherwise merits for arcs and Ouroboros wouldn't have been done at all. At least that is my impression/recollection.
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Merits don't feel clever enough to really be the result of some clever, top-down design. It feels more to me like putty, being pushed into the cracks, and allowing the devs to (temporarily? perhaps?) ignore other problems that are really of low priority, but don't seem to be (eden trial's exploitability was probably not really bothering people all that much, even if it needed fixing).
I am just glad they added this. This along with the ability to mail things to any character has pretty much ensured I will stay subbed till the servers close down. I dont have alot of time to play the game and it was taking way too long to fully IO out a character just using merits especially since alot of players only want to run news papers. I was so on the verge of quiting CoX till they announced this system. So long as they dont make any more changes to the timers on this to negatively impact it, I think its going to go well.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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the devastation merits wrought on supply at non-max level tells us there was no grand design philosophy at work, it was just another 'on the fly' market adjustment made by people who don't seem to understand the system very well.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
Merits don't feel clever enough to really be the result of some clever, top-down design. It feels more to me like putty, being pushed into the cracks, and allowing the devs to (temporarily? perhaps?) ignore other problems that are really of low priority, but don't seem to be (eden trial's exploitability was probably not really bothering people all that much, even if it needed fixing).
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My City Was Gone
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To me the really fascinating thing was to learn how far outside the curve I am. Merits multiplied my ability to contribute recipes by far more than 30x. And yet the impact on the community was primarily negative.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
the devastation merits wrought on supply at non-max level tells us there was no grand design philosophy at work, it was just another 'on the fly' market adjustment made by people who don't seem to understand the system very well.
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Due to my schedule and lack on in-game contacts and particularly bad reflexes and character building skills, I have with my shiny 27 month vet badge, run about 40 task forces all total on all characters combined. under the old system, I had managed 1 Citadel, 1 Lady Gray, 2 ITFs and 2 Katie Hannons after I forget how long. This means I generated F#$^& all pool-c recipes.
With the change I have barely done more task forces over time, but now I get merits for story arcs. I generate like 10+ Pool Cs per character before Oroboros kicks in. With Oroboros I have multiple characters that have pumped out over 60 pool C recipes.
If this were the case for all players the market would be saturated with Pool Cs. And yet it is clearly hurt badly. I guess the Devs seriously misunderstood how many of me are out there. =)
Watching this change was very fascinating to me.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
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I had been asking Synapse for the longest to try to get them to allow level selection of the IO when its crafted so that the non-max level thing would not be an issue anymore. But I havent heard anything more recent. My guess is its going to take alot of players making a big stink about it for it to finally happen. Now that we can get pool c with alot less work this whole thing is even less of an issue. For me I want all my recipes at max level except procs and uniques. For those I want them at the lowest possible level due to how most of them got crazy exemplar rules on them. Rather than deal with that I just get them at the low level to be on the safe side. As a result I have put alot of higher or near max level procs and uniques on the market to be sold over the past 2 weeks.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
the devastation merits wrought on supply at non-max level tells us there was no grand design philosophy at work, it was just another 'on the fly' market adjustment made by people who don't seem to understand the system very well.
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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I really think at the very least, set IOs should be made to only drop on 5-level increments like the generics do. There's just way too many different levels with very little difference between them diluting the supply pool.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I had been asking Synapse for the longest to try to get them to allow level selection of the IO when its crafted so that the non-max level thing would not be an issue anymore. But I havent heard anything more recent. My guess is its going to take alot of players making a big stink about it for it to finally happen. Now that we can get pool c with alot less work this whole thing is even less of an issue. For me I want all my recipes at max level except procs and uniques. For those I want them at the lowest possible level due to how most of them got crazy exemplar rules on them. Rather than deal with that I just get them at the low level to be on the safe side. As a result I have put alot of higher or near max level procs and uniques on the market to be sold over the past 2 weeks.
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I agree that it's even worse with merits, since merit rolls always come at the max level, and since most people hoard merits while leveling, you don't see as many non-max level recipes out there as when you just got whatever dropped at the end of the TF.
I'm not sure if something like having a level slider for merit rolls would be enough, or if it would take something more drastic like your idea of having it be selectable while crafting (effectively eliminating levels from recipes altogether).
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That would be an awesome idea IMO. Recipes have no level, crafting costs and salvage are selected by what you level you craft it at, and limit available levels to multiples of 5. It would make things very interesting from a market PoV.
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Originally Posted by MTS
or if it would take something more drastic like your idea of having it be selectable while crafting (effectively eliminating levels from recipes altogether).
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I must be seriously misunderstanding something here.
From this
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this:| Hero and Villain reinforcing Morality Missions will now award 50 Reward Merits on the first reinforcement and 1 Hero or Villain Merit on the second and subsequent reinforcements. |
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| Players can earn a limited amount of fame for their alignment-related deeds. To earn more fame, the public has to first lose interest in your old deeds. The public will hold interest in no more than five deeds, and their interest will last for 20 hours after the deed occurred. The player also has the option to reinforce their standing as their current alignment. . |
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| Continuing to complete Tips tied to the player's current alignment will give them the chance to complete the Moral mission once again, thereby reinforcing their existing moral beliefs. This cycle of reinforcement can be completed as many times as the player likes. |
Tip Missions effect Fame, and Tip Mission are Alignment Related. Complete 10 Tip Mission, get one Morality Mission. You can only do 5 Tip Missions every 20 hours. So, if you want to be a REAL psycho about it, you can technically manage 4 Alignment Merits a week. Of course, that means starting your playtime 4 hours earlier each day of the week...
Finally, a straight, simple answer i can understand.
5 tips a day
10 tips per Moral mission (2days)
1 moral mission = 1 A-merit
so those 20 A-merits I need for some recipes is going to take me 40 days. i think i can live with that, since i couldn't earn the inf to buy a 300 million purple from grinding the same number of missions in that time frame.
... or you can go really crazy and do a big bunch of task forces at the same time, trading 50 merits and 20 million inf for each aDDITIONAL A-merit.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Yes, if you have bottomless pockets and endless time, you can make an absurdly large number of merits in a week.
However, if you're concerned with spending 300 million, I don't think 20 million on a single merit is really meant for you :-D
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in a game where a savvy marketeer hit the inf cap in a week, there are many, many, many ways to earn 300 million in substantially less than 40 days.|
Originally Posted by Free_Fall
Finally, a straight, simple answer i can understand.
5 tips a day 10 tips per Moral mission (2days) 1 moral mission = 1 A-merit so those 20 A-merits I need for some recipes is going to take me 40 days. i think i can live with that, since i couldn't earn the inf to buy a 300 million purple from grinding the same number of missions in that time frame. |
heck, I can cap an MA map in 30 minutes with my ar/dev blaster and make 50-100 mill selling the crafted 'good stuff' from rolling bronze.
as Mukilord said in some other thread today, "I can fart 100 million inf".
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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You'd be better off rolling the merits or buying a specific pricy recipe outright than buying purple recipes individually. At least at current prices.|
Originally Posted by Free_Fall
Finally, a straight, simple answer i can understand.
5 tips a day 10 tips per Moral mission (2days) 1 moral mission = 1 A-merit so those 20 A-merits I need for some recipes is going to take me 40 days. i think i can live with that, since i couldn't earn the inf to buy a 300 million purple from grinding the same number of missions in that time frame. |
2bill+ pvp recipes also an option, I think, but takes longer.
Culex's resistance guide
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I am not you. and I have never capped 300 million in the 3 years i've been playing as a dk/dk corr.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
in a game where a savvy marketeer hit the inf cap in a week, there are many, many, many ways to earn 300 million in substantially less than 40 days.
heck, I can cap an MA map in 30 minutes with my ar/dev blaster and make 50-100 mill selling the crafted 'good stuff' from rolling bronze. as Mukilord said in some other thread today, "I can fart 100 million inf". |
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Read these forums more, play the market. Playing the market will net you far, far more than killing hordes and hordes of stuff ever will.|
Originally Posted by Free_Fall
I am not you. and I have never capped 300 million in the 3 years i've been playing as a dk/dk corr.
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I'm under the impression Nethergoat does both because he enjoys both playing the market and gunning down NPCs.
Regardless, it's good he used the example of an AR/Dev because it's hardly a superzomgleet farming machine so much as just a 'normal' character. Handy to illustrate the stuff-generating abilities of a non-minmaxed farm character.
You can generate plenty of stuff plenty fast with a Dark/Dark Corr. Set your difficulty to +0/+1 x4 or more. Apply debuffs, spam TT/Nightfall to melt them.
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Merging markets + new merit system + lots more inf destruction + big influx of new/returning players + lots of lowbies being rolled = chaos.
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