AoE lawnmowers
By
Bright Shadow,
Posted on: 2010-07-15 12:47 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Fire/Storm corr. Freezing Rain is way better than Tar Patch for that whole "slow em and blow em" routine.
that sounds dirty.
I'll go different and throw out a Dark/Rad Defender. Extremely safe from low levels on and very AoE happy (and not too shabby on the end either). While not the high damage of other ATs, Defenders have the best buff/debuff modifiers, allowing you to floor the enemy's hit chances against you with dark, drop their resistance more than any other Dark Miasmaist, and can heal itself about 2/3rds of your max HP at pretty much any time (with SO slotting). Tar Patch and Petrifying Gaze will pretty much glue the mob wherever you want it, allowing you to use your AoEs and cones rather easily. The downside is you won't get all of your AoE attacks until later (mine is only level 28 and won't get Neutron Bomb until 35), but by the teens you should be able to handle 3-5x pretty easily.
And also, you can tank too.
And also also, teams will love you. Especially when you got their XP going nuts because you keep having them crank up the difficulty because it's still too easy.
Pretty much any of these comboes:
Blasters:
Rad -or- Fire Primary
Fire -or- Psi Secondary
Controllers:
Fire -or- Illusion -or- Plant Primary
Kicetic -or- Radiation Secondary
Scrappers:
Thorns -or- Fire - Claws Primary
Dark -or- Fire -or- Shield Secondary
Kheldians:
Dual Human/Nova Warshade
Specifically for Sunless Mire
Brutes:
Claws -or- Electric -or- Fire Primary
Fire -or- Shield -or- Electric Secondary
Dominators:
Fire -or- Plant Primary
Fire -or- Psionic -or- Thorn Secondary
Corruptors/Defenders:
Dark -or- Radiation -or- Storm -or- Kinetic Support
Ice -or- Fire (cor) -or- Psi (def) -or- Radiation Blast
Masterminds:
Robots -or- Thugs Primary
Dark -or- Traps Secondary
Soldiers of Arachnos:
Crab Spider in general
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Quote:
I see a lot of people saying this and I don't understand what it is that makes folks claim freezing rain better than tar patch. It does have a shorter recharge, I will grant you that, but it's not much shorter (60 seconds for FR, 90 for tar patch) and the -def is nice but frequently overkill. Both have the same resistance debuff (30%). Other wise tar patch lasts 45s where the freezing rain patch itself only lasts 15s, so tar patch will catch new mobs entering it 3 times longer than FR. While the debuff in FR is supposed to last for 30s there are bugs with the way it is applied so you frequently only get 15s worth of debuff out of it. Tar patch also has a 90% movement debuff vs the 50% debuff in FR and FR has an avoid in it, which causes mobs to run out where they tend to stay in tar patch. |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Fire/Storm corr. Freezing Rain is way better than Tar Patch for that whole "slow em and blow em" routine.
that sounds dirty. |
So, all in all I would suspect fire/dark is a far better area killer than fire/storm. Stealth up with shadow fall to where you can put darkest night on mob that will pull multiple groups, run back to a corner and drop tar patch and when the mobs hit it, lock them down with fearsome stare. You can pull in a similar fashion with snowstorm and freezing rain but you have a lot less room for error with the shorter FR and I find snowstorm to be an uneven puller - if the mob you target with snowstorm decides to stop and shoot at you or gets stuck on a terrain feature you get a bunch of mobs in the back who are slowed and don't get to you while the rest get out of the snowstorm effect and end up split. Plus you have nothing in storm that kills the alpha strike like fearsome stare does - hurricane, while a better debuff power is to chaotic and spreads out the mobs to much to use in a situation like this.
I agree that both storm and dark miasma are good secondaries for a fire corruptor but at best I would say a fire/storm and fire/dark are equal 'AOE Lawnmowers' and in most cases I would give a nod to dark.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Electric Melee/Shield Defense - Scrapper.
nothing else comes close... 'till they nerf shield charge.. then it will probably be spines & fire/dark/electric scrappers... or kin+ pick'em trollers (personally i think plant/kin trollers are almost as insane as fire/kin)
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That's a pretty good list, but I have to differ on the above. My first controller, who becoame my first level 50 hero, was illusion. It's a great set, but entirely single target. It's excellent at eliminating single foes, but it has a grand total of three AoE abilities, two are held by pets, and only one does damage. (Phantasm's cone) High damage, nada on the AoE front. (Though the pets can split up to take one multiple foes.)
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Pretty much any of these comboes:
.... Controllers: ....-or- Illusion -.... ... |
Aoe Lawnmowers you say?
Plant/Rad/Fire-Controller
FA/FM/Pyre-Tanker
Elec/Elec-Blaster
Cold/Ice-Defender
Elec/Dark/mace-Corruptor
Ice/Ice/Ice-Tanker (does ALOT more damage then people believe it will.)
Elec/Ninjitsu-Stalker
And the top number 1 AoE God of them all?
*Drum Roll*
Fire/Thorn-Dominator (With optional Kung-Fu Grip!
)
The highest aoe damage toon in the game is arch/fire
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I would agree with that...except theres one problem.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The highest aoe damage toon in the game is arch/fire
|
Extreemly LOW Survivability...and I have yet to see a single person playing one.
Hmm, I might make one, just because!
I have a s/l softcap version of one with just shy of perma hasten that I plan to roll one of these days. Hibernoob and hoarfrost to help out too.
I want one too because you never see it and it is the best. Just like my ill/cold which I've only seen one other of and yet it is probably the fastest big game killer in the game. There are still lots of untapped power combos, just need creative people to push them to the limit.
My Rad/Fire blaster. Irridate+Firesword Circle+Neutron Bomb next mob.
Fire/X Corrs seem to get mentioned in this thread a lot, and for good reason. My Fire/Traps was pretty good with his Fire AoEs. I imagine pairing him with anyone else who has decent AoEs (and maybe more debuffs) would make a for a killer combo.
love my Fire/Storm Corr with soft capped S/L def
Quote:
probably the added mitigation of knockdown|
Originally Posted by EricHough
I see a lot of people saying this and I don't understand what it is that makes folks claim freezing rain better than tar patch.
|
If you're on a team that steam rolls through content, it's not gonna really matter if Tar Patch lasts 45 seconds cause you're going to be moving forward anyhow. Though I will say that early in the game, Tar Patch is better than FR, then they're pretty even in the late game.
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Funny you mention it because I just made one of these a few days ago. |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
The highest aoe damage toon in the game is arch/fire
|
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Quote:
Sleet/Freezing Rain have both faster Recharge and shorter duration. On steam rolling teams that just munch through minions, most battles don't last 45 seconds (duration of Tar Patch). And unless you're running with a lot of Global Recharge Bonus, it means you'd have to wait 30 seconds before each Tar Patch application.
Originally Posted by EricHough
I see a lot of people saying this and I don't understand what it is that makes folks claim freezing rain better than tar patch.
Sleet/Freezing Rain can be lowered to around 20 seconds recharge, just in line with Rain of Fire. They last for pretty much close to the same time, which means permanent Sleet/Rain of Fire combo that can be "re-located" every 20 seconds.
That and the added knockdown effect, is delicious.
Edit: Oh and let's not forget the -DEF.
Radiation/Fire Blaster for early and guaranteed AoE on Hero side.
Fire/Dark Corruptor or Fire/Kin Corruptor on Villain side.
Archery with its tier9 is of course epic AoE.
Quote:
Thats a Diffrent Story then.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I have a s/l softcap version of one with just shy of perma hasten that I plan to roll one of these days. Hibernoob and hoarfrost to help out too.
I want one too because you never see it and it is the best. Just like my ill/cold which I've only seen one other of and yet it is probably the fastest big game killer in the game. There are still lots of untapped power combos, just need creative people to push them to the limit. |
I may make a Fire/Thorn Dom, or a Plant/Thorn....both are horriffic in the control and AoE damage area.
Doms are good. My permadom fire/psi was ungodly till they fixed psw.....lol. He easily out did my brute at full fury always charging from spawn to spawn.
Back in the days, two perma fire psi would split an entire map set for 8 and do it in nothing flat....working separately on different sides of the map. I was even shocked at how obscenely fast xp was. Now, after the whole dom revamp and psw, it is just "fast"
Wondering what happens when he switches sides, and gets some new ancillary power set.....maybe a new set with a better aoe (they can get two or three aoes with a soft control)....
GR might pull certain doms into aoe lawnmower kings again.
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I have one on Freedom (perma hasten), 655 badges as of now. To many alts or the count would be higher. You don't die if ya kill it first. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
I would agree with that...except theres one problem.
Extreemly LOW Survivability...and I have yet to see a single person playing one. Hmm, I might make one, just because! |
There are better combos, but I rolled mine back in I5 when the set came out. They can take my bow when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!
@MARTy McFly
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Hm, I have one of those.
|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
I would agree with that...except theres one problem.
Extreemly LOW Survivability...and I have yet to see a single person playing one. Hmm, I might make one, just because! |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
It's quite a bit easier to get a 60 second power recharged every fight than a 90 second power. Freezing Rain's debuff lasts around 10 seconds after a mob leaves the patch, so with decent recharge it's ready to use again by the time it wears off against AVs and such. Against normal spawns, if you need more than 15 seconds of debuff you aren't exactly on an "AoE lawnmower"... |
Originally Posted by EricHough
I see a lot of people saying this and I don't understand what it is that makes folks claim freezing rain better than tar patch. It does have a shorter recharge, I will grant you that, but it's not much shorter (60 seconds for FR, 90 for tar patch) and the -def is nice but frequently overkill. Both have the same resistance debuff (30%).
|
I'd rather be able to toss a new debuff patch down on the next mob than have to lure a second mob to an existing patch when I'm going for speed. Plus the knockdown helps with mitigation. Finally, the -defense not only helps against mobs with defense powers, it allows slotting an Achilles -resist proc.Tar Patch is great, but Freezing Rain is more steamroller-friendly.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
SS/Fire/Mu Brute. and for th guy who asked why Freezing rain over tarpatch, if your taking more than 15 sec to mow through a group your aren't doing it right.
For everyone saying anything else. Darks heal is to slow, Rage makes buildup look childish, scrappers don't have fury, tanks do less damage than scrappers, and squishiees get squished to much. When it comes to pure killing speed. The brute has 1. Fury, 2. Rage 3. Fiery Embrace 4. Healing Flames. 5. Burn.
You run almost as much damage as a ss/shield 90% of the time but your AOE's are up 3 times as fast. A lot of builds can kill blindingly fast but they may be limited to minions and or LT. Brute kills them all, including the bosses and has the HP and Res to stand in and take it while the AOE's do their thing.
For Duo farming, twin fire kins, For teams, Fire/Rad + Fire/Kin and whetever you want cause everything is gonna die fast.
"If a system can be exploited, it will be exploited. And if a developer thinks their system cannot be exploited, it'll be exploited like a new actress in her first porn movie." Sanya Weather MMORPG Examiner
SPine/Shield Scrappers!
oh... wait... no never mind... damn animation/graphical issues...
Seriously tho... theres Tons of Combos...
My current favorite is Spine/fire scrap for blue and Fire/shield brute for red.
But Ive used...
Fire/kin corr and troller
Ice/Fire/fire tank
Bot/Traps/mu MM
Archer/EM blaster
all work very well against the right mobs... Tank being the best all around one and MM as the most unique and fun to play IMO, and the archery/em isn't the most optimized AoE toon but Rain of Arrows is pretty incredible with aim+BU.
but...
I will say on a team. My fire/kin corr with its FS'd and scourging RoF+Fireball combo is just awesome. and in the truest sense of the the word. and what team doesn't like a kin? just pick up an AoE immob from your patron and your good to go.
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Originally Posted by James_Donner
SS/Fire/Mu Brute. and for th guy who asked why Freezing rain over tarpatch, if your taking more than 15 sec to mow through a group your aren't doing it right.
For everyone saying anything else. Darks heal is to slow, Rage makes buildup look childish, scrappers don't have fury, tanks do less damage than scrappers, and squishiees get squished to much. When it comes to pure killing speed. The brute has 1. Fury, 2. Rage 3. Fiery Embrace 4. Healing Flames. 5. Burn. You run almost as much damage as a ss/shield 90% of the time but your AOE's are up 3 times as fast. A lot of builds can kill blindingly fast but they may be limited to minions and or LT. Brute kills them all, including the bosses and has the HP and Res to stand in and take it while the AOE's do their thing. For Duo farming, twin fire kins, For teams, Fire/Rad + Fire/Kin and whetever you want cause everything is gonna die fast. |
SS/Shield is better, and so is SS/Elec.
Just sayin.
If I could narrow down the criteria for best AOE to ...
Fastest AT to hit the ticket cap on a level 50 city block map set at +?/8 with say bobcats or battle maiden followers (or heck whatever you love the best it dont really matter).
This means you need damage and mitigation to handle earning the tickets because a faceplant does take a bit of time to recover from.
I have 5 50s that I submit to this level of testing. And I rank them in this order of speed: (Note all my 50s are IOed out, usually with 1 or more purple sets of 5)
1 Bots/Traps/Mu MM without a doubt is safer and faster than all the others. Traps is the big reason why.
2 Warshade - lots of purples on this one and perma eclipse. Safe, fast and effective.
3 Crab/Mu - not as safe or as fast as the bots becuase he really slows down taking out the bosses.
3 Fire/Storm/Fire troller - storm is just too hard to control to keep things nice and close for the fire to cook it all at once.
4 Illusion/Rad/Fire troller - almost as safe as the MM, but slower damage output keeps him down. I have Perma PA and 6 slotted choking cloud, but it still takes a while to take down bosses.
5 Fortunata/Soul - I had figured this one would be the best, but the speed of boss killing is just too slow, and they have no heal so alot depends on which insperations drop and if they drop at the right time. So even with def to all way over the soft cap enough damage comes through at 5% to create some issues.
My Elec/Nin/Mu stalker is 45 and I see alot of potential. But he may run into the same problem as the forntunata in that his low HPs mean an unlucky faceplant every once in a while.
Oh and no I dont time the runs this is all from my sense of elapsed time when running them through the map. I may time a few runs if I remember to next time around.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
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