What is the general consensus on server emptyness?

But it still holds itself as an MMO. A Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

Or are you seriously contending that one of CoX's differentiators and thus selling points is that more than half it's servers have almost no people in them?

"we have a low population because we like it that way" is probably not a viable business model for a subscription based service.

Look at it from the perspective of a business owner instead of that of a player with a vested emotional interest and you'll see things differently.

Tell me, do you honestly feel, in your best estimation, that an accountant from NCSoft would be equally exuberant?

He'd have told me they're all on other servers?
I doubt it.

Which, if it even hints at changing to another server, will be equally bashed.

Yes, I've exaggerated the population disparity. Ok. I admit it. I personally crashed victory to make only 2 people (including me) logged in and I created dozens of new accounts on Freedom just to prove a point.

And yeah, I personally made TR and DR go away due to low populations in anticipation of this moment.

And yeah, every other MMO that had server closures due to low population? I made those up. I fooled the entire MMO community just because I wanted to screw with your head.

You found me out. Good job.

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

So...two, three minutes, maybe?

Depends on what one is looking for.

No one, but no one ever claimed there was no population disparity nor that the lesser populated servers were lesser populated. "Empty" is a far different story than "lesser populated". And the disparity was not what I was saying was exaggerated. "Empty" was one part of the exaggeration. "People seeing other people in the game right off the bat is the most important thing" (never stated, very much implied) was also.

And, hey, I mentioned earlier that I see the problem, I just don't see it as being anywhere near as bad as you and Frosty do, nor as important. It'd be nice to see more people sometimes, but I still contend that it's not as important to player retention as is being claimed.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

Those look fine to me - but then I don't mind the @global in Champions Online as you can choose not to show it.

In the absence of a CO-style 'you can have any name you like even if someone has taken it' policy (which I like, but I know some people object to because they want to be unique), I'd like to see regular name purges - regular as in automatically applied; something like this:

Didn't activate that trial that lapsed 2 months ago? Name purge
Haven't paid for the last 3 months? Name purge up to level 10
Haven't paid for the last 6 months? Name purge up to level 20
...etc, increasing all the way to level 50.

By 'name purge' I'm thinking more like 'name unlocks/becomes available for someone else' so if you come back after a year or two there's a chance you'll still have it.

As a new player especially, spending the best part of an hour crafting a look only to find the name you wanted and everything you can think of that is similar is long gone, is very frustrating and a turn-off.

Again, "almost no people" is an exaggeration. And I will contend that "we have busy servers for those who want them and quiet ones for those who want them" IS a selling point. Versatility is always a selling point.

We really don't have a low SUBSCRIPTION population, just a low population on some servers.

No I won't. I don't put emotion into these things at all (aside from, y'know, being a terminal wise-*** ). The business owners are doing just fine, thanks. They just had direct competition come out that has been roundly hailed as, if not a failure, certainly no threat. We'll see what DCUO has up its sleeve for round two.

The accountants couldn't care less if the servers are busy or not. They only care about subscription, box, and peripheral moneys.

Why not? No skin of their nose to say "this is one of the slower servers and it's early in the morning U.S. If you're looking for crowds of people, they're usually on Virtue or Freedom." People do that all the time.

Where are you seeing this stuff? I've never seen anyone new bashed for moving to another server that I can remember. In fact, starting a new character on Freedom or Virtue is almost always mentioned in those threads. Those threads usually break out into fights further on, but it's almost always vets vs. vets.



See previous post for what I was saying was exaggerated. It wasn't any of that.

TR? DR? EDIT: Sorry, too me a minute to get that was Tabula Rasa and Dungeon Runners (and DR was awful, and an unwise idea to compete directly in the general fantasy MMO arena anyway).

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

i have quoted myself just because everyone who still doesn't understand this seems to have missed it.

this happens every year at the same times. "oh my god, there are 20 less people on, the servers are dead. i don't give a crap about your logical answers. only my own self deluted ones."

people take breaks. i know, it's blasphemy. again, pay attention to the time of year it is. this happens at least 5 times per year. when GR hits, what will be next, oh my god, there is no one starting in atlas/galaxy/mercy?

but people have been saying merge the servers here for the entire time i have been visiting these boards. i joined the boards in april of '08.

the thing i find the funniest (not specifically from you smurch) is the the idea that forcing me onto a more populated server will make me team. if that is what i wanted then i would have moved there already.

if what people are worried about is newbies seeing lots of people, make them start on freedom or virtue. then when they sign in again they will see that there are more server choices and, possibly, find out what the deal is.

I will certainly agree here. The visible population is down. The whole "hang out under Atlas" thing seems to have gone out of vogue on the lower pop servers a couple of years ago. I would contend that people left are more playing the game than just hanging out somewhere.

Ehhhhh, ssssssort of. I'm not really claiming it's a selling point, because I don't think either one really is. I'd say having a variety of population servers is a good thing, but I wouldn't advertise either one.

Inherent? No, I'd agree there. It's more a preference thing. It's easier to be a big fish in the small pond, for instance. Some people don't like the constant Broadcast babble. Some don't like the constant blind invites to teams and SGs. Everyone's different. Myself, I was more intimidated than excited my first time logging into Virtue. "Other people" were a low thing on my list, as I'd just started and hadn't even really figured out how to play yet. It was a while before I wanted to team.

Point, noting that "busy/quiet" are relative to each other.

The advantage is in variety of choices.

To a degree, but exaggerated. Not "no one". Just not large crowds.

And that comes down to "What's 'quite a few'?" is variable between people. I'm not saying at all that it would be bad to see some more capes fluttering in the wind, but I'm also saying not seeing it isn't cause for doom.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

For the new player who doesn't buy Going Rogue and enters into Atlas Park or Mercy?

Not nearly as much as the idiots who think the game is dead and the servers are empty.

By and large it is the same posters saying it often as well.

I'm not saying all servers should have the same 'feel' to them. I distinctly remember back in the day when I could almost tell what server I was on just from the differing vibe each of them had.

Different SGs/VGs did all sorts of things and had their own feel to them. Whether it was recruiting or contests or whatever. I liked that. I may have gotten annoyed by broadcast sometimes, but there was a 'pulse' to every server...a personality even. Now it feels like only Freedom and Virtue have any personality of their own.

I'm not crying doom or advocating server merges, but I honestly do not think we have the healthiest population distribution currently. And I think that it can, and probably is, affecting perceptions of this game.

Compounding all that is NCSoft's 'lay back and chill' approach to marketing and generally, potential new players are going to be educated by the vocal fools on the internet with a grudge against COX. And there are a surprising number of them out there.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

Hey! You shut your damn dirty mouth!

--NT

You are forbidden from using the name of my favorite VtM clan in your highly flawed arguments.

Yes I do. I have multiple accounts and run both on different servers at the same time when I'm soloing.

Right now while I'm online here I'm also toggling between Guild Wars and STO.

Because we all know that new players, having never played the game, instinctively know that Atlas Park is the social hub and never choose Galaxy City as their starting zone.

I'm sorry but, something is wrong with your presentation of your point Frosticus. I'm trying to wrap my head around it and it is not my intention to attack you but, it may come out that way. It seems to be a bit hypocritical. On one hand you say that neither side knows what the result will be, blasting the opposing view for presenting a hypothetical as fact. On the other, you are making claims that they will change the system in some way to allow people. This claim is just as hypotetical. Yet those you propose a different possible outcome, are lying? Fear mongering? Ok maybe (though I think that is a bit harsh) since it is the worse case senerio. But until the mergers and exactly what happens is announced, it is possible outcome. And you cannot really deny that as a possiblity and more then I can about your claim. The main difference between us is which one we believe to be more likely.

This is truely where we disagree. To me, they would only do mergers as a cost cutting measure. And as such are not likely to develop new tech for a one off situation instead of using existing tech that is already in place.

As for the bolded line, Know? Really? When did the announce the mergers and the results of that action? Again, you blast others for stating things as fact but, do it youself.

You seem to have direct information about discussions regarding merger or shutting down the EU servers. Where is this information located, please?

Yes, the Korean servers were shut down in July 11th of 2007, the EU servers though dead, have not been. That to me is a pretty clear indication that the EU servers are still sufficiently paying for their cost. As NCSoft seems to have no problem doing so. The real question I have for you is, why do you beleve they would even do a merger of the EU servers instead of just shutting them down like the Korean ones?

We are back to the beginning of this little post, I won't repeat it beyond this: So, it is ok for you to may difinitive statements about a hypothetical situation but, no one else can?

I don't believe that anyone is coming off like a religious zealot. We just hold a different opinion of what the outcome of the mergers would be. There is nothing wrong with that.

--Rad

I have come to the conclusion that there simply must be different versions of City of Heroes in existence. That's the only explanation I can come up with for the wide discrepancy in reported player experiences about the same topic.

I started on Protector 2 years ago. I'm still there. I can say, with absolute 100% sincerity, that from my perspective, the population is MORE active than it was when I started 27 months ago. There is always activity on our global channels, there is always something going on, and I can find or form a team any time, on any day of the week, redside or blueside.

I've always paid attention to the number of players showing in Team Search ever since I first started. The numbers, on average, really haven't changed much, outside of spikes like when Exploit Entertainment was released. SG's come and go. Players come and go. Many of the players I knew when I first started have moved on, but there are plenty of new ones to fill their shoes though.

Ha! Nah, just different timing and the luck of the draw. And a little personal perspective (visible people vs. those "hiding" in the global channels, etc.).

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

This. But, of course, those of us that use global channels are burying our heads in the sand. Oh and we are telling new players they are stupid if we show them how to do the same.

--Rad

I don't have a problem finding a team if I feel so inclined(I am rarely inclined...but still). There is almost always someone in my global list or SG that I can team with if I feel like it. I just jump to the server they are on or they come over. That doesn't mean that the server I'm on doesn't visibly look empty. That doesn't mean that finding a team via broadcast or other standard methods that a new player would try isn't more difficult.

As an Issue 1 veteran, I would be pretty pathetic if I couldn't find at least some folks to team with. The difference is, of course, how much easier it is to get a team on Virtue or Freedom. You basically can just stand there and get random invites. I was on for 35 minutes last night and got about 4 invites on Virtue. I can tell you that hasn't happened to me on Infinity or Victory in a good long while.

And I think it is good that you educate new players on how to get a team more effectively on lower pop servers, but are you managing to catch every new player that joins the game? Are you managing to catch every new player before they build up a high degree of frustration and maybe think that it isn't worthwhile anymore?

For the most part, in most MMOs, people use general broadcast to look for teams. That's not something alien, and it used to work pretty well in this game up til a while ago. If that dynamic has changed, then it means something more needs to be done to make it easier for new players to get a feel for that. Whether it is an improved tutorial or whatever.

If people are having trouble running into players in the street, then where exactly are they going to keep hooking up with veterans to guide them to the right place for the experience they are looking for?

In my mind it's not right that it should be this way in the first place, we are not any more heavily instanced than we were 3 years ago, but the streets are emptier(save for 2 servers out of 11).

Again, it is easy to sit in a comfortable bubble and say: 'I'm fine so there's nothing to worry about'. But there are also people external to the game who spread all sorts of crap about COX and jump on stuff like this. And there is no one telling people any different. NCSoft certainly isn't.

This is a very real problem, the starting restriction for new players would be a terrific way to funnel new players into a lively area and allow them form bonds with other new people and vets alike.

Although I don't support server merges, it may be a good idea to list the 3rd and 4th largest pop servers at the top of the server selection screen, putting new players that just click the top server when selecting a server into medium population servers. Once they learn the game some they can build future characters on lower or higher pop servers to fit their play styles. This of course would require more programming than the more simple high → low or the low → high display we have now.

My post was actually more a jest at Smurphy's frequent posts in this thread saying that anyone who likes a smaller sever and saying they can find teams just fine on said server is burying their head in the sand. You see, the fact that I can find teams on a smaller server is not mutually exclusive with me seeing a reduction in my server's population.

Natually, there is more of everything on Freedom and Virtue because there is more players.

Oh I know I don't catch everyone but, it is not my responsibility to. I am happy to help them when the question comes up though. Again, a little poking fun at Smurphy's insistance that telling people how we find teams is calling those people stupid.

Ignoring the we aren't most MMOs retort. :P ... An improved tutorial would be great. There is lots left out; for instance the search functions and global channels, and much more. Hopefully, the devs will address that in the future.

[quote]If people are having trouble running into players in the street, then where exactly are they going to keep hooking up with veterans to guide them to the right place for the experience they are looking for?

Remember, this is about responses that have been made to others posting in these very forums. They already know where to go. This is not to say all new players do that or come here and that should be addressed in game.

You right, it is not right. But, that is the way it is. In part, because new players are encouraged to go to Freedom or Virtue both on these forums and outside of them, at this point. Virtue and Freedom have always been the largest servers one being the beta server and the others agreed to by the community involved as being the home of RP. What it comes down to, the problem is not with the overall player population (at least yet) but, with the distribution of them.

Is population declining? yes. Should that be addressed by the devs and publisher? yes. Do I think merging the servers for a perception of more player subscriptions is the answer? No. Do I know what the solution is? No but, marketing of the game sure would be nice. I could thing of a few more, like locking new character creation on Freedom and Virtue. or may SD (server diversification) I think you can see where that idea goes :P. Ok, I'm not serious about those two.

Again, saying "here is how I find teams on a smaller server" is not saying that "I'm fine so there's nothing to worry about." It is this leap that Smurphy makes that I have the problem with. As I stated before, one is not mutually excluse to the other. I can still find teams but, worry about the declining populations.

--Rad

This is pretty much where I stand on this topic. I wish NCSoft took this a bit more seriously. They are spending a gajillion dollars on GR. It seems ludicrous that they would let marketing for the game sink to this level.

Server merges may or may not be the ideal solution(it of course seems the most obvious to people who are a bit more emotional), but doing nothing is a bad thing too.

I'll reserve final judgment til a few months after GR goes live on how much worry was misplaced over this, but simply banking on returning players to make up your numbers seems like a pretty crazy thing to do for an expansion of this size and scope. Maybe I'm not the type to see this from a corporate POV so I'll leave it at that for now.