What is the general consensus on server emptyness?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2010-07-09 07:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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And just to show that people are different I would love it. I hate that I can't select certain names because someone else beat me to the punch on thinking it up. It means I have to use less creative names just to get something vaguely in the ball park of what I wanted.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
All names are changed to @global - character name
EDIT: Which would suck, be dumb, break immersion, be distasteful, be annoying and generally be a rotten idea. Did I mention I'd hate this option? |
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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Just a polite reminder, The main reason we don't see servers getting greyed out as often is because the devs have upgraded the servers to handle more people more efficiently.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Back in the day when Freedom stayed grayed out.
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| I still think you're right about this game will be around a long time, assuming that the most populated servers dont go "empty". I dont think the total population of game have decreased to a panic point but I think it's more like a population shift. When's the next free transfer thingy gonna happen? |
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Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
It means I have to use less creative names just to get something vaguely in the ball park of what I wanted.
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I fail to see how your being forced to be more creative in thinking up a character name makes the name you finally get less creative. The less creative names are the ones that get taken first because they are the easiest ones to think of.
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In the absence of hard evidence all any of us have is anecdotal reprisals. Both sides lack hard evidence. You are welcome to highlight that I'm speaking anecdotally, but be sure to hold up a mirror in the process.
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Originally Posted by Mylia
MMMMmmm the fresh smell of anecdotal notes in the twilight of a new day is great.
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I don't recall where tracking the actual numbers found to be logged in by using search became anecdotal evidence. Granted, I do not know the the actual percentage of players that persistently hide from searches.
Be well, people of CoH.
The usual (and correct) points about hide options, the game being largely instanced, the summer/pre-GR slump, etc have already been made, so I'm not going to rehash all that. It's been said, the copy/paste has been done, fine.
Yes, population is lower now than it once was. There are many reasons for this, including time of year, the fact that a beta is currently in progress, the fact that a major new issue/expansion is upcoming, and just that this is a six-year-old MMO that doesn't currently have a major shelf presene (though this will change with GR). So yeah, population is lower.
This is not, in and of itself, a cause for concern. It is not a reason to merge servers. In fact, merging servers is quite likely to drive significant numbers of longtime players away from the game as this thread has already demonstrated (albeit in an anecdotal sampling).
The only issue raised in this thread that I can see as a legitimate cause for concern is one of new player perception. Servers other than Freedom & Virtue are not 'ghost towns' despite what some fond of hyperbole choose to believe, but to a new player unfamiliar with global channels, tells and our less-than-stellar team search system, that perception is an understandable one.
To recap: it's the perception that is the problem, not the reality. However, it's still a problem. On the one hand we have players on these supposedly dead servers who team quite nicely thank you very much. I'm one of them. So what's the difference? In most cases it's use of global channels and/or savvy use of the team /search and /tell systems. These aren't things that it is reasonable to expect a new player to know about and may not be reasonable to expect a new player to learn. In short, they shouldn't have to learn it in order to team well.
So what's the solution? Move to Freedom, where the blind invites flow like water? No, obviously not, because we have that option now and it does nothing to address concerns on other servers, not to mention that "lol u picked wrong server n00b rofl" isn't the message we want to send. So merge the servers, so the blind invites flow like blood? Also no, that could easily create more problems than it solves, and there's a better solution with none of the fallout. The solution is to fix the teaming interface so that new players (and not-so-new players) can find teams more easily without the need for the extraneous measures most of us now take for granted. We need a "team looking for more" option. The aforementioned "auto-add" feature where your character automatically links up with a team that has a matching "looking for more" set up would be even better.
Such a system would solve the problem of a new player's 'ghost town" erroneous perception without the numerous problems of a server merge (one of which happens to be sending a signal to those same new players that the game may be dying*).
* No, the game is not dying.
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But it's always been that way with a number of servers, depending on day/time. With so many zones, and everything being instanced, outside of a very small number of hubs, the game often looks empty and it has been that way ever since I started playing.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
A new player jumps on the game and sees nothing but empty streets and maybe 1 or 2 other players over the course of 30 minutes. What kind of impression do you imagine that makes?
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I have a hunch the devs are working on improvements to the teaming system that will help the situation. Something along the lines of WoW's dungeon finder would go a long way toward putting players together with teams, and remove much of the feeling of 'empty' servers.
For now, however, we can all exert a little extra effort and explain to new players about using the team search function, how global channels work, sending tells to players on teams, etc. On Protector we get a lot of new players being invited to our global channels, and nearly all of them pick up on the concept very quickly.
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You make some great observations. The only thing I would like to add is that perception is reality because our reality is governed by our perception.|
Originally Posted by Justaris
The only issue raised in this thread that I can see as a legitimate cause for concern is one of new player perception. Servers other than Freedom & Virtue are not 'ghost towns' despite what some fond of hyperbole choose to believe, but to a new player unfamiliar with global channels, tells and our less-than-stellar team search system, that perception is an understandable one.
To recap: it's the perception that is the problem, not the reality. However, it's still a problem. |
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't recall where tracking the actual numbers found to be logged in by using search became anecdotal evidence. Granted, I do not know the the actual percentage of players that persistently hide from searches.
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Every time I've seen anyone cite search numbers they get crapped on because it isn't admissible according to them. I would suspect that if it is deemed inadmissible for one side of the argument it should also be inadmissible for the other side.
With regard to people using /hide, they have taken themselves out of the equation and serve no purpose to be counted in any sort of population assessment. That is not be mistaken with subscription assessment, which aside from keeping the game running and growing, is irrelevant to players.
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That's what I've been trying to say. Thanks for summarizing that.|
Originally Posted by Justaris
To recap: it's the perception that is the problem, not the reality. However, it's still a problem. On the one hand we have players on these supposedly dead servers who team quite nicely thank you very much. I'm one of them. So what's the difference? In most cases it's use of global channels and/or savvy use of the team /search and /tell systems. These aren't things that it is reasonable to expect a new player to know about and may not be reasonable to expect a new player to learn. In short, they shouldn't have to learn it in order to team well.
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The solution is to fix the teaming interface so that new players (and not-so-new players) can find teams more easily without the need for the extraneous measures most of us now take for granted. We need a "team looking for more" option. The aforementioned "auto-add" feature where your character automatically links up with a team that has a matching "looking for more" set up would be even better. Such a system would solve the problem of a new player's 'ghost town" erroneous perception without the numerous problems of a server merge (one of which happens to be sending a signal to those same new players that the game may be dying*). * No, the game is not dying. |
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It means, quite simply, one of two things. Either server populations have dropped considerably or vastly greater numbers are utilizing the hide from searches feature.|
Are you using this as evidence that servers are well populated or under populated? Actually that question serves no purpose so don't feel compelled to answer it unless you really want to. Every time I've seen anyone cite search numbers they get crapped on because it isn't admissible according to them. I would suspect that if it is deemed inadmissible for one side of the argument it should also be inadmissible for the other side. With regard to people using /hide, they have taken themselves out of the equation and serve no purpose to be counted in any sort of population assessment. That is not be mistaken with subscription assessment, which aside from keeping the game running and growing, is irrelevant to players. |
I will not claim to know which is the case, but nor will I attempt to pretend that this game's population is anywhere near its heyday numbers just because I can find a team.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Careful! That's akin to blasphemy around these parts...
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I will not claim to know which is the case, but nor will I attempt to pretend that this game's population is anywhere near its heyday numbers just because I can find a team.
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Well... I am a devil. Would you expect anything less than blasphemy from me?
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Originally Posted by Slashman
Careful! That's akin to blasphemy around these parts...
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Be well, people of CoH.
When PuGging on Freedom, I like to punctuate my nightly formation of a full, 8-player team in under 5 minutes by stating in Team chat:
"Voila - a full, 8-player team in under 5 minutes without a single Blind Invite! The game is surely dying DoooooooooooM!"
To which the usual reply is 3 or 4 members immediately Quitting 'cause I'm such a wierdo.
Giving me the opportunity to do it again! 
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You realize that that's irrelevant right? We're not talking about how hard it is to get teams on one of the 2 fullest servers in the game. It's the other 9 that we were discussing which may be problematic.
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Originally Posted by RobertoLyon
When PuGging on Freedom, I like to punctuate my nightly formation of a full, 8-player team in under 5 minutes by stating in Team chat:
"Voila - a full, 8-player team in under 5 minutes without a single Blind Invite! The game is surely dying DoooooooooooM!" To which the usual reply is 3 or 4 members immediately Quitting 'cause I'm such a wierdo. Giving me the opportunity to do it again! |
Interesting thread even if it mostly keeps going in circles.
i have a question for the original poster that was inspired by the original post because there's something about leading/biased questions that often amuses me: Yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
[QUOTE=Forbin_Project;3037377]Just a polite reminder, The main reason we don't see servers getting greyed out as often is because the devs have upgraded the servers to handle more people more efficiently.
I know and think if they didnt upgrade servers virtue and freedom would still be contantly greyed out.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Originally Posted by Justaris
The usual (and correct) points about hide options, the game being largely instanced, the summer/pre-GR slump, etc have already been made, so I'm not going to rehash all that. It's been said, the copy/paste has been done, fine.
Yes, population is lower now than it once was. There are many reasons for this, including time of year, the fact that a beta is currently in progress, the fact that a major new issue/expansion is upcoming, and just that this is a six-year-old MMO that doesn't currently have a major shelf presene (though this will change with GR). So yeah, population is lower. This is not, in and of itself, a cause for concern. It is not a reason to merge servers. In fact, merging servers is quite likely to drive significant numbers of longtime players away from the game as this thread has already demonstrated (albeit in an anecdotal sampling). The only issue raised in this thread that I can see as a legitimate cause for concern is one of new player perception. Servers other than Freedom & Virtue are not 'ghost towns' despite what some fond of hyperbole choose to believe, but to a new player unfamiliar with global channels, tells and our less-than-stellar team search system, that perception is an understandable one. To recap: it's the perception that is the problem, not the reality. However, it's still a problem. On the one hand we have players on these supposedly dead servers who team quite nicely thank you very much. I'm one of them. So what's the difference? In most cases it's use of global channels and/or savvy use of the team /search and /tell systems. These aren't things that it is reasonable to expect a new player to know about and may not be reasonable to expect a new player to learn. In short, they shouldn't have to learn it in order to team well. So what's the solution? Move to Freedom, where the blind invites flow like water? No, obviously not, because we have that option now and it does nothing to address concerns on other servers, not to mention that "lol u picked wrong server n00b rofl" isn't the message we want to send. So merge the servers, so the blind invites flow like blood? Also no, that could easily create more problems than it solves, and there's a better solution with none of the fallout. The solution is to fix the teaming interface so that new players (and not-so-new players) can find teams more easily without the need for the extraneous measures most of us now take for granted. We need a "team looking for more" option. The aforementioned "auto-add" feature where your character automatically links up with a team that has a matching "looking for more" set up would be even better. Such a system would solve the problem of a new player's 'ghost town" erroneous perception without the numerous problems of a server merge (one of which happens to be sending a signal to those same new players that the game may be dying*). * No, the game is not dying. |
Well I dont think I can say anything else on this subject as this sums it up as nice as it can be summed up.
The game will never die as long as we keep playing. Anyone planning a mass leaving since the l33t left anytime soon. I like this game. Actually anyone miss em? the game goes on.
For real this adds new perspective. An old player, more than likely will be able to find a team on whichever server regardless how empty it seems because more than likely they have a nice network, know where to look and how to look. Even between virtue and freedom, there are different methods for finding a team effectively. Freedom all I have to do is log in and wait. Virtue, usually I have to change my status and maybe send out a message that I'm looking for team and I'll get one. Victory might take a bit longer and learned not to be in a rush and if I didnt know some of the server VIPs finding a team might be even harder as many people there dont do PuG. Liberty, when I was there, kept more an eye on the request channel and foudn teams. Champion sometimes I might get blind sometimes I just say looking for team but seem to come lot quiker if I make sure my status is green.
But someone first coming into the game who dont know what server is what might find somewhere like Liberty a little hard to find a team if they dont know how to look. Of course word might get to them that tells flow like water on freedom so what they do? Go to freedom of course!
Victory overall have a nice experience people there but many of them are stuffy and dont seem to want to do with anyoen outside their coalition they never heard of or SG and this can be frustrating for a new guy who of course dont know anyone. About as fristrating as tryign to finance a car and the dealrer saying that they cant finance you because you never financed a car here.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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I suspect, though I can't prove, of course, that this was meow farming more than anything else. Back then Atlas was laggy and full of "PL meh!" chat even on low-pop servers. So people just started to use global chat more and pretty much stopped hanging out under Atlas. I personally certainly did so. |
Originally Posted by Decorum
I will certainly agree here. The visible population is down. The whole "hang out under Atlas" thing seems to have gone out of vogue on the lower pop servers a couple of years ago.
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When meow farming was finally reigned in, people just got too used to the new arrangement to return.
Just for giggles:
1am CST
Virtue Red: 315
Virtue Blue: 518
833
Pinnacle Red: 45
Pinnacle Blue: 77
122
Victory Red: 32
Victory Blue: 92
124
11 servers total
Being nice, we'll average those three and multiple that by eleven for 3960 users found ignoring the hidden. Knowing that Freedom and Virtue are really the only high pop servers, it would probably be closer to (2*833)+(9*125) = 2791 users found ignoring the hidden.
But it's late. People are in beta. People are on test. People are waiting for GR go live.
While it's certainly possible that the vast majority of us stay hidden from searches, I do, I find it difficult to believe. But let's go with a generous assumption that 25% of the playerbase is hidden an we'll go with the big number of 4000 across all servers, hell let's bump that all that way to 5500 players logged in.
Out of 120000 subscribers at last count? Only 4.5% (and again, those are VERY generous estimates) of the subscriber base is logged in on a Friday night?
I'd be concerned if I was in charge. But I don't have the subscriber numbers. I don't know the percentage of hidden players. Hell, I didn't even get the exact numbers for every server.
About one month after GR go live, we should check again. During primetime. Tallying up all the servers. Maybe we'll be closer to 10% of subscribed players actually playing the game.
Be well, people of CoH.
Forgive the harsh phrasing, but if the company is so worried about their precious bottom line that they give the axe to perfectly good games like Tabula Rasa, and are so 'committed' to making CoX a flagship game, then why don't they *ADVERTISE*?
It's my belief that server pop has fallen because of vets merging into one or two servers based on server rep, as well as attrition due to loss of interest, game age, age demographics, and newer 'shinier' games coming out.
1 server is generally known as the 'gay coalition' server, and a large population of alternative lifestyle folks hang there
1 server is generally known as the 'roleplay' server, and the LARP wannabes hang there.
1 server is generally known as the 'pvp' server, and the more hardcore folks hang there.
The problem as I see it is that, between population merges and older players losing interest/moving to other games, and the lack of advertising for this game, it is becoming an unknown in the community again.
This game has been advertised on television twice..once for CoH, and once for CoV. Thats it. Thats all.
The company claims they ARE advertising...by way of having some kind of 'partnership' with Gamestop, apparently...funny, I go to Gamestop every week and have YET to see *ANYTHING* on their walls, racks or in/on the counters that has to do with this game.
Dudes, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to spend money to make money.
Advertise the *bleep* game *ON TELEVISION* again. Your wallets will thank you.
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Funny it's third MMO they advertise having. |
Originally Posted by Elanthil
The company claims they ARE advertising...by way of having some kind of 'partnership' with Gamestop, apparently...funny, I go to Gamestop every week and have YET to see *ANYTHING* on their walls, racks or in/on the counters that has to do with this game.
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I guess you aren't looking in the right place.
Of course you're probably going to point out the futility of advertising on the internet. Especially to gamers because everyone knows gamers don't use computers.
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That isn't advertising. That's a listing of the games they are selling.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Funny it's third MMO they advertise having.
I guess you aren't looking in the right place. Of course you're probably going to point out the futility of advertising on the internet. Especially to gamers because everyone knows gamers don't use computers. |
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which is advertising. what do you think the things that come in your suday paper are? advertisements. this is how companies advertise. not just by commercials or billboards.
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Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
That isn't advertising. That's a listing of the games they are selling.
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It may not be what some would define as GOOD advertising... but it is certainly a form of it.
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Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
That isn't advertising. That's a listing of the games they are selling.
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Remember you have to run a script basically to convert the names and the simplest way of all is to stick the server name on the front. So I would expect that this is what would happen along with a rename token being tossed to the character. And that is just character names.
What happens to the person who has 36 characters on each server? Or any variation adding up to more than 36? And don't think that this isn't possible. Plenty of people have huge amounts of characters.
And who knows what they might do with the SG names. If you are lucky they will simply slap SERVERNAME_ on the front of it. If you are unlucky then they will delete all of the SGs on both servers for best convenience rather than fuss with trying to merge them.
If they did do a server merge it would be ugly because there is no good way to do it.
Generally a server merge is best done during the first year or two when you are still trying to pay for the servers and could save money by selling some of them off.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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