What is the general consensus on server emptyness?
By
3dent,
Posted on: 2010-07-09 07:05 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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interesting. you gotta data* that basically says that at that time, victory total population is less than half the population for red side? Well if this all taken at the same time, wouldnt the relative population by definition grow through out server? Meaning if you did go ay peak time, wouldnt freedom and and virtue grow in population logged in as well as the "low pop" servers or is it that only "low Pop" server people are the only one that do beta take vacations, take breaks stay hidden etc.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Just for giggles:
1am CST Virtue Red: 315 Virtue Blue: 518 833 Pinnacle Red: 45 Pinnacle Blue: 77 122 Victory Red: 32 Victory Blue: 92 124 11 servers total Being nice, we'll average those three and multiple that by eleven for 3960 users found ignoring the hidden. Knowing that Freedom and Virtue are really the only high pop servers, it would probably be closer to (2*833)+(9*125) = 2791 users found ignoring the hidden. But it's late. People are in beta. People are on test. People are waiting for GR go live. While it's certainly possible that the vast majority of us stay hidden from searches, I do, I find it difficult to believe. But let's go with a generous assumption that 25% of the playerbase is hidden an we'll go with the big number of 4000 across all servers, hell let's bump that all that way to 5500 players logged in. Out of 120000 subscribers at last count? Only 4.5% (and again, those are VERY generous estimates) of the subscriber base is logged in on a Friday night? I'd be concerned if I was in charge. But I don't have the subscriber numbers. I don't know the percentage of hidden players. Hell, I didn't even get the exact numbers for every server. About one month after GR go live, we should check again. During primetime. Tallying up all the servers. Maybe we'll be closer to 10% of subscribed players actually playing the game. |
*note: available data that may or may not be complete per say.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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I can't recall making a statement that implied it was the players' decision to direct marketing. Although I do find it funny that YOUR attitude isn't reflected by the devs creating a thread and asking for player ideas on marketing.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
did you even read the post that was quoted by both forbin and i from Black Pebble? this is what they are doing now. it is not our decision what the devs or NC does for advertising. i think you need to step down from your self made pillar for a minuet, or a while, and relax.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Ah yes the "Sour Grapes" defense, how plebeian.
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If you think its fine and dandy, then I'm glad you're happy with it. I personally think it is weak and not making the best use of available marketing avenues.
I don't work in marketing however, so I can't say that I have a professional take on the issue. I can only relate to what I have seen work for other similar games and draw a comparison from there.
In terms of bringing new players to the game, I question its value. Most of what we seem to do in terms of promotion seems squarely aimed at people already playing the game.
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Are you shopping for a new car? Because otherwise I'm not sure how you would know about the dealership offering that, since businesses only target ads at people that are already looking to buy.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
By advertising that people will get something from this store that they can't get if they buy it form another store. Businesses do it all the time in commercials. Only difference here is that it's done on the internet instead of TV.
Buy any new 2011 Ford car from our dealership and get free state inspections and replacement tires for the entire time you own the vehicle. (Yes a local dealership where I live is offering the tire thing) Besides just who do you think advertising is directed at other than the people that might be interested in buying the product. Who do you think will buy more copies of GR. The people that go to Gamestop or some random group like the Amish. The whole point of advertising is to target you customer base. That's why kosher foods are targeted mainly at Jewish people, feminine hy-gene products are targeted at women. AARP insurance targets Senior citizens. This is a very common and effective advertising technique. |
Meh, it's pointless actually trying to have a discussion here anyhow. People just take it as an attack on the game and spend time trying to defend the status quo than talk about actual way to improve things.
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I would assume, probably safely so, that ALL of the server populations will be higher during primetime.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
interesting. you gotta data* that basically says that at that time, victory total population is less than half the population for red side? Well if this all taken at the same time, wouldnt the relative population by definition grow through out server? Meaning if you did go ay peak time, wouldnt freedom and and virtue grow in population logged in as well as the "low pop" servers or is it that only "low Pop" server people are the only one that do beta take vacations, take breaks stay hidden etc.
*note: available data that may or may not be complete per say. |
Would it be helpful for me to check them all tonight at, say, 9PM CST? That'd be 10pm east coast and 7pm west coast. Does that sound like primetime for a Saturday night? I'll even hit the test server on both sides to see how many folks are hanging out there. That'll be 12 servers looked at.
Or will that data be ignored by those thinking that 7500 players is a perfectly acceptable amount for a healthy MMO's population?
Be well, people of CoH.
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I see we have another case of "Sour Grapes". Dry your eyes grasshopper that stinging sensation your feeling from getting spanked won't last forever. |
Originally Posted by Judas_Ace
Are you shopping for a new car? Because otherwise I'm not sure how you would know about the dealership offering that, since businesses only target ads at people that are already looking to buy.
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Are you stating that these folks are suffering from sour grapes syndrome because you think that they care about the Razer stuff?|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I see we have another case of "Sour Grapes". Dry your eyes grasshopper that stinging sensation your feeling from getting spanked won't last forever.
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If it helps, I don't care at all about the promotions. I pre-pruchased GR the day it became available fully accepting that other promotions may occur later on.
It appears to me that you seem incapable of coming up with any kind of real response to the lack of marketing so instead make up excuses to attack the posters in question. Quite pathetic, really.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Wait...you mean that's what he was talking about?? He thought I cared about the Razer Promotion?? BWAHAHAHAHA!!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Are you stating that these folks are suffering from sour grapes syndrome because you think that they care about the Razer stuff?
If it helps, I don't care at all about the promotions. I pre-pruchased GR the day it became available fully accepting that other promotions may occur later on. It appears to me that you seem incapable of coming up with any kind of real response to the lack of marketing so instead make up excuses to attack the posters in question. Quite pathetic, really. |
I was wondering what the whole sour grapes thing was. That's frikkin' hilarious.
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Again with the blasphemy! |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Or will that data be ignored by those thinking that 7500 players is a perfectly acceptable amount for a healthy MMO's population?
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Nope. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Are you stating that these folks are suffering from sour grapes syndrome because you think that they care about the Razer stuff?
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They are suffering from "Sour Grapes" because they are frustrated that their arguments about advertising were proven wrong over and over.
First it was NCSoft wasn't doing any advertising, which was proven wrong. Then they were quibbling over the definition of advertising, which was also proven wrong. Finally they tried to argue that advertising to a target customer base isn't effective, and that was proven wrong.
No one here has said that they wouldn't like to see more advertising across a broader spectrum. We've only refuted the argument that the company isn't doing any and provided proof to back it up.
The ones being childish are the people refusing to acknowledge that there are many valid types of advertising.
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I'd actually be impressed if it hit 7500 tbh.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I would assume, probably safely so, that ALL of the server populations will be higher during primetime.
Would it be helpful for me to check them all tonight at, say, 9PM CST? That'd be 10pm east coast and 7pm west coast. Does that sound like primetime for a Saturday night? I'll even hit the test server on both sides to see how many folks are hanging out there. That'll be 12 servers looked at. Or will that data be ignored by those thinking that 7500 players is a perfectly acceptable amount for a healthy MMO's population? |
I wouldn't mind you posting it at all, but I always take an interest when other people post the info too.
A fun exercise would be to take the numbers you get and then divide it by the square mileage available for each sides population. Just to give a relative density analysis. Of course we know that folks concentrate around certain areas, but it would still be neat.
I have a feeling it would about the equivalent of standing out in the Rocky Mountains.
That said, unless you are interested in doing this task don't have any expectations of it proving anything to anyone. People that recognize the state of the population already recognize it. The people that don't simply refuse to take the blinders off and it is doubtful the data you gather will open their eyes.
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I think the population of the game proves you incorrect. I also don't think you know enough about advertising to be spearheading the discussion demonstrated by how quickly you have resorted to attacking other posters and your reliance upon parroting.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Nope.
They are suffering from "Sour Grapes" because they are frustrated that their arguments about advertising were proven wrong over and over. First it was NCSoft wasn't doing any advertising, which was proven wrong. Then they were quibbling over the definition of advertising, which was also proven wrong. Finally they tried to argue that advertising to a target customer base isn't effective, and that was proven wrong. No one here has said that they wouldn't like to see more advertising across a broader spectrum. We've only refuted the argument that the company isn't doing any and provided proof to back it up. The ones being childish are the people refusing to acknowledge that there are many valid types of advertising. |
I don't think anyone has any hope of having an actual discussion with you on this material. Well, if your capslock key gets fixed we might be able to take it really slow, but it is doubtful.
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Fair enough. I've seen the advertising and knew it was out there. It just doesn't seem to be doing much good.| No one here has said that they wouldn't like to see more advertising across a broader spectrum. We've only refuted the argument that the company isn't doing any and provided proof to back it up. |
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| That said, unless you are interested in doing this task don't have any expectations of it proving anything to anyone. People that recognize the state of the population already recognize it. The people that don't simply refuse to take the blinders off and it is doubtful the data you gather will open their eyes. |
I don't know whether 7500 active players on a weekend night during prime time is healthy or not. It doesn't sound very good to me. But I want the data on hand so that I can compare it to some random night after GR goes live.
Be well, people of CoH.
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If there is anyone that has a chance of collecting the data and having people actually pay attention to the results you are one of the best candidates for the job Bill.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
This is true. But some topics I prefer to attack with as much fact as possible while leaving the opinion at the door. This is one of them.
I don't know whether 7500 active players on a weekend night during prime time is healthy or not. It doesn't sound very good to me. But I want the data on hand so that I can compare it to some random night after GR goes live. |
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I fail to see how you come to that conclusion.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think the population of the game proves you incorrect.
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Fact. The population of the game is lower than it was at its hey day.
Fact. NCSoft got together with Gamestop and Razer and designed a marketing campaign to advertise the next paid expansion "Going Rogue" in order to increase the number of people playing the game.
Fact. The more people paying for subscriptions means the games population will increase.
And as I said to Bill, no one is saying we wouldn't like to see marketing do more stuff.
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Well that isn't quite the impression you gave. You made it seem like what I was suggesting they should do for marketing was so far out of the realm of normalcy that I should be locked in some kind of facility for the mentally disturbed.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And as I said to Bill, no one is saying we wouldn't like to see marketing do more stuff.
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I got the feeling like the Gamestop and Razer promotions were the be-all end-all of marketing effort in your eyes.
Maybe I misread that. If so then, then I apologize. But I'm not going to apologize for my opinion that they aren't doing nearly enough to market this game. Especially when it is clear that they aren't even doing as much as games that are both more and less successful then they are. It kind of bewilders me.
We need more Penny Arcade ads.
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Originally Posted by Slashman
Well that isn't quite the impression you gave. You made it seem like what I was suggesting they should do for marketing was so far out of the realm of normalcy that I should be locked in some kind of facility for the mentally disturbed.
I got the feeling like the Gamestop and Razer promotions were the be-all end-all of marketing effort in your eyes. Maybe I misread that. If so then, then I apologize. But I'm not going to apologize for my opinion that they aren't doing nearly enough to market this game. Especially when it is clear that they aren't even doing as much as games that are both more and less successful then they are. It kind of bewilders me. |
I apologize for giving you the impression you got from my posts. You sort off got caught in the line of fire. The position I've been arguing wasn't about the content of the advertisement, but about whether or not they were advertising at all.
As soon as we brought up the current promotion the counter reply wasn't that it wasn't enough advertising, it was dismissed outright and proclaimed not to be advertising at all. That's where I got stubborn.
Currently they are doing the Gamestop/Razer thing. Last year they did the webisodes with Rooster Teeth.
Captain Dynamic - Touch my Awesome button.
(personally I wished they did something more along the lines of Red vs Blue. A funny story about a hero and villain inside the CoH world that we could follow each week.)
Before that the only thing I can remember is the CoV promotions.
They haven't ignored advertising altogether, they just haven't been consistent about continually doing it, and that's a problem.
Don't forget the I'm a Mac-PC style Hero-Villain shorts. Saw them used and rebroadcast on various social media.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
In the mind everyone is always right and everyone else is always wrong. Their logic is unquestionable while everyone else is illlogical. They are the beacon of intelligence while the rest of the planet is idiots besides the people that share their logic or for a few share logic they can understand. If they cant understand it it must be wrong for they are right. Human nature.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Honestly this is the first I heard about them.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Don't forget the I'm a Mac-PC style Hero-Villain shorts. Saw them used and rebroadcast on various social media.
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I prefer the way George Carlin explained it.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
In the mind everyone is always right and everyone else is always wrong. Their logic is unquestionable while everyone else is illlogical. They are the beacon of intelligence while the rest of the planet is idiots besides the people that share their logic or for a few share logic they can understand. If they cant understand it it must be wrong for they are right. Human nature.
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Some people don't like you to mention certain things. Some people don't want you to say this. Some people don't want you to say that. Some people think if you mention some things they might happen...some people are really ----ing stupid!
Did you ever notice that? How many really stupid people you run into during the day? --damn there's a lot of stupid ----ards walking around. Carry a little pad and pencil with you. You'll wind up with thirty or forty names by the end of the day.
Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.
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Really? I thought everyone who frequents the forums had seen them.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Honestly this is the first I heard about them.
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IMO they are better than the Rooster Teeth stuff. Simply because they have a more easy-to-grasp humor and parody the Mac-PC ads on TV. I would have liked to see them continue developing those and possibly use them in banner ads and such on other websites.
The Rooster Teeth stuff was more squarely aimed at promoting MA...which frankly became a source of embarrassment shortly after release due to the rampant exploiting etc.
Got started an hour late due to real life issues. Took 30 or so minutes to gather the data.
10pm CST
Freedom Red: 401
Freedom Blue: 793
Total: 1194
Virtue Red: 387
Virtue Blue: 815
Total: 1202
Guardian Red: 78
Guardian Blue: 206
Total: 284
Liberty Red: 52
Liberty Blue: 209
Total: 261
Triumph Red: 75
Triumph Blue: 169
Total: 244
Victory Red: 71
Victory Blue: 178
Total: 249
Infinity Red: 78
Infinity Blue: 152
Total: 230
Protector Red: 76
Protector Blue: 171
Total: 247
Pinnacle Red: 78
Pinnacle Blue: 147
Total: 225
Champion Red: 90
Champion Blue: 149
Total: 239
Justice Red: 32 (Updating to 58 due to server crash at 11:15pm CST)
Justice Blue: 83 (Updating to 151 due to server crash at 11:15pm CST)
Total: 115 (Updating to 209 due to server crash at 11:15pm CST)
Test Red: 1
Test Blue: 3
Total: 4
Total player population on all servers: 4494 After update from Justice: 4588
If we assume 5% of the players stay hidden from searches: 4731 total players
If we assume 25% of the players stay hidden from searches: 5992 total players
If we assume 50% of the players stay hidden from searches: 8988 total players
I don't know how many players stay on hidden from searches. I probably never will. However, I have started this thread in the hopes of finding out.
Be well, people of CoH.
What did Justice just crash or something? There can't be that few unhidden people on Justice if everything is running as normal.
Justice used to be the second most busiest server, if you go by red dots. This was before GDN but Justice was the only other server hitting red after Freedom. Then along came CoV and now Virtue feels all super special. Huh don't you Virtue.
By advertising that people will get something from this store that they can't get if they buy it form another store. Businesses do it all the time in commercials. Only difference here is that it's done on the internet instead of TV.
Buy any new 2011 Ford car from our dealership and get free state inspections and replacement tires for the entire time you own the vehicle. (Yes a local dealership where I live is offering the tire thing)
Besides just who do you think advertising is directed at other than the people that might be interested in buying the product. Who do you think will buy more copies of GR. The people that go to Gamestop or some random group like the Amish.
The whole point of advertising is to target you customer base. That's why kosher foods are targeted mainly at Jewish people, feminine hy-gene products are targeted at women. AARP insurance targets Senior citizens.
This is a very common and effective advertising technique.