The game is tedious

There is a definate pack mentality to it. Too bad there is no Cesar Millan - Troll Whisperer...

Definitely.

Granted, I only read the first few pages and the last to see where it ended up, but the COH CAN BE NO BETTER crowd who prefer their temp powers and slots and power pools to make up for...powers that suck....are pretty defiant.

I dunno. I don't come here to crunch numbers and micro-manage. I come here to rp a particular type of hero, and I want to take those powers--not whatever other stuff someone thinks I ought to because they want to make sure you're not having too MUCH fun, because someone thinks the game is only fun based on experience progression..::rolls eyes::

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Those who are familiar with the I13 PvP changes may read this and laugh, if only to keep from crying.

On the contrary, few of us believe that Co* is the best MMORPG, or even RPG, available. But it is one which we enjoy and prefer to others, and we refute the assertion that there's an overwhelming, soul crushing "endurance problem" because we know that it just isn't true.

Endurance management is part and parcel of the game. We are given more than enough tools to accomplish that part of the game. Ultimo's complaint isn't really that endurance management is impossible, or that endurance costs are too high, or even that some builds have trouble managing endurance, his complaint is that he has to play that part of the game at all. And Ultimo wasn't dogpiled because he's right, he wasn't put down because other players are blind to the truth, he isn't being treated with derision and lack of respect he just didn't state his case properly. The reality is, Ultimo's complaint is the same tired old blather he's posted a hundred times before, carefully packaged up in an ever so slightly different wrapper and presented as though it were a brilliant revelation, and when people honestly offer absolutely feasible and currently available solutions to alleviate his issue, he brushes them off and continues to whine and demand changes.

No, what's going on here isn't a bunch of fans telling the realist to sod off, it's just Ultimo complaining, players offering solutions to ease his distress and Ultimo ignoring every suggestion and continuing to push for the entire game to be redesigned in the way he wants it to be. We've been here and done this with Ultimo more times than you can possible imagine. It's a coprolite at this point (that's crap so old that it's fossilized).

Yeah, no-one is telling you, or Ultimo, or anyone else how to have fun. If you don't want help resolving an issue with how the game plays for you, then no-one will offer help, or cram it down your throat. But proclaiming that the game is horribly broken because your RP build isn't working exactly the way you imagined it should, and not because the game is broken but because you actively choose not to deal with your problems with any of the tools which are available, and then dismissing everyone who tries to help, try not to be floored when no-one listens to your ridiculous ranting.

By the way, those prerequisites on certain powers are there not to limit your leveling speed, but to ensure that all ATs and builds progress at roughly the same pace. Why is that important? Because it allows the developers to more easily balance the ATs within themselves and against other ATs, which in turn allows those developers to manage the difficulty of the content to prevent it from being nigh impossible for one AT or build and "stupid easy" for another AT or build. It may seem like an artificial speed bump to you, but it's there so that you aren't running into a lot more speed bumps. It's so you can RP in this game, rather than being forced to follow excruciatingly strict build guidelines.

I feel I should rebut this because it's not quite true.
I've never said I don't want to deal with endurance at all. Quite the contrary, I've said it should be part of the game, just not as big a part as it is now. See my last post for a clear statement of what I think. It's pretty much the opposite of what you're saying I think.

I wasn't dogpiled because I'm right (I can't be right or wrong, I posted an opinion). I was dogpiled because I'm me, as far as I can figure it. People that have disagreed with me in the past feel the inexplicable need to antagonize me in my every thread, whatever the topic may be.

What's going on here is a bunch of fans telling me to sod off for reasons I can't fathom. If you disagree with what I'm saying, fine. One can disagree without being disagreeable, however. People offer me solutions as though I haven't been here for years. I know how to slot. I know how to compensate. In this thread, I've said that the amount of attention one has to pay to doing this, and the degree to which it is effective, isn't adequate. Other threads have had similar courses.

I've never suggested a redesign. I've suggested tweaks here and there, specifically because a redesign is not going to happen, and shouldn't happen. You can't pull the rug out from under the players as Galaxies did. Giving us some relief where endurance is concerned isn't a redesign.

City of Heroes is far from broken. As I've said many times, it does a lot of things very well. However, that doesn't mean it's perfect. All I've done, and continue to do, is to occasionally look for ways to make the game better. For that, I get vilified. So be it, if the game does in fact improve. If even one of my thoughts or ideas is noted by the right people, then it's all worth it.

Right. Because you're you, and you ignore facts, logic, quantitative analysis, substantial evidence, reality, and when you're not outright dismissing everything that everyone attempts to get through your skull, you're threatening to report them to the moderators or trying to spin it so it seems as though they're just attacking you for no reason.

You... commonality in every case... hm... no, it couldn't possibly be your behavior, attitude and actions that cause people to respond negatively. Inconceivable!

Because you don't listen.

We've seen your builds, and you've proven that you don't know how to slot. Or compensate. You may understand it in theory, but in practice, you've never figured it out. Of all the things you've tried to prove, that's the one thing that you have proven.

For you. Because you can't figure it out.

"Other threads" similar to the "other threads" you attempted to use to bolster your previous attempt to create City of Ultimo, and which didn't actually support your assertions? You go ahead with that, maybe a first week player will fall for it. I won't, neither will anyone else who's seen you do this routine before.

I'll give you that, you have never suggested redesigning the game. What you have done is attempted to con the developers and players into believing that problems exist when they really don't, tried to convince everyone to support drastic changes which would create hideously unbalanced ATs and all but demanded sweeping revisions to ATs and mechanics for no real purpose beyond satisfying your personal need to play Marvel and DC properties.

But you're right, you've never said, "redesign this game".

Reduced endurance costs across the board. Beginner's Luck (the less you miss, the less endurance you "waste" and the more you can expend in your mad rush to hunt down those free range ex pees). Power 10 enhancements (accuracy, damage, endurance being three of the most important for managing endurance). Rest. +Recovery buffs from other players. +Recovery buffs from pets. +Recovery buffs from Confused foes. Endurance increase accolades. Endurance increase temp power. Endurance discount temp power. Endurance discount APP/PPP powers. +Recovery temp powers (multiple). +Recovery pool and APP/PPP powers. Alterations to existing powers to add endurance discounts or +recovery. Multi-aspect HOs and IOs with */end or */*/end. IO set bonuses which grant +Recovery or +Endurance. Catch a Breath-class inspirations and inspiration combination to make more at will.

How much "relief" do you need before you stop demanding more (and that wasn't even an exhaustive list of all of the possibilities)?

Nor has anyone asserted that it is.

Because what you want doesn't make the game "better", it just makes it closer to your personal ideal. You want to remove or change various aspects of the game because you personally dislike them, find them too difficult to comprehend, they get in the way of your ultimate goal of City of Marvel/DC Copyright Infringements, they just confound you by existing. People disagree with you because you place your own personal beliefs and wants above those of every other person who plays, because you portray a person of selfishness and conceit while attempting to conceal it with claims of "trying to help", and you really don't care about anything more than finding a way to make your favorite Marvel and DC characters, even if it means changing everything that doesn't need to be changed and turning the game into one of two things, a boring snoozefest or a hellish nightmare, depending on whether or not you're following Ultimo's Dream.

But let's not get too melodramatic here, Ultimo. You aren't being "vilified". You're not that important. You're not the devil. You're not even practice.

It has, steadily, over the years. Despite your refusal to believe that, it has and will continue to do so.

I'm certain it would be worth it, for you, because you'd be one step closer to that Marvel/DC ripoff game that you've been crusading for since you started posting. It wouldn't be worth it for the rest of us, because we aren't you, we don't slot one damage SO in a power and start threads demanding damage buffs, or outright ignore every endurance management power in the game and start threads asserting that we need "relief".

How big a part of the game should endurance be? If endurance costs are unbalanced, then there should be some kind of proof.

I'll see if I can help without math, my head hurts so I don't feel like doing any right now. Endurance is a limiter on the number of specific actions a character can make before needing to stop. You believe that characters should be able to make more actions before needing to quit. amirite?

The game allows a specific number of certain types of action, and thats where balance comes from. Additionally there are certain powers and enhancements that may be used to customize your character allowing it the ability to improve in the endurance efficiency department. You may also choose to customize your character to improve accuracy, damage, speed, or some other factor. Possibly even multiple factors.

Endurance use is manageable. The tools exist. The only issue is that, to emprove endurance management; these tooles must be used, Lessening the ability to customize in other areas. If you Increase the ammount of actions that may be made before stopping, you need to give something up. Damage, recharge, accuracy, or secondary effects; something. This is balance, some characters are better at some things than others.

If the devs reduced endurance cost globaly then they would need to reduce everything else to balance it out. If not, it would be too easy to skip slotting for endurance, as the devs did that for you permanantly with a supposed endurance reduction, and just slot for accuracy, damage, or recharge. This makes characters more powerful than intended, and the encounters become too easy.

An opinion can be wrong, but you were dogpiled not just because you were wrong, but because this is a rehash of the same old thing you decide to say every so often. Each time it's pages of people showing you your mistakes, at some points trying to help fix them, and you saying it should be different. Of course you don't know the details of how it should be different, and without doing any in depth analysis, your sure it won't break game balance. This annoys people and eventually they get impatient with you.

No, they offer you solutions as though you might want to fix your endurance issues.

Honestly, then do it. The devs don't need to waste time doing it for you, and risk screwing the game up. It's part of the game, play the game or don't, its that simple.

It's no different than building for damage. Pay attention to your slotting, and pick the most effective powers for your goals. Building for damage means slotting for damage, and taking high damage efficiency attacks and damage boosting powers. Building for endurance means slotting for endurance, taking high endurance efficiency powers, and picking endurance boosting powers.

If I can do it while refusing to slot until level 27, you can do it.

You don't seem to understand that not only is relief not neccesary, but likely bad for balance. If balance goes then either a redesign or rollback becomes needed. One is something that shouldn't happen, the other makes all the effort put into the tweaks pointless.

The game isn't perfect that's for sure, but time should be spent fixing actual issues. This would be a big waste of time, and is completly unneccesary.

This only holds true if you accept that the costs are currently balanced.

Once again, I'll point out that your claim that the current options for dealing with endurance are insufficient or inadequate is simply laughable in light of the fact that solo players can do the following:

• Solo AV's: Encounters that take up to several minutes of continuous nonstop combat and have been done with every AT. Defenders, Controllers, Scrappers, Blasters, Tankers, Corruptors, Brutes, Dominators, Masterminds, Stalkers, Kheldians and VEAT's have all done it.

• RWZ pylons: Again, something that requires several minutes of nonstop combat and endurance use, far in excess of anything a player would encounter in the normal PvE game.

• Giant Monsters: Something that occasionally an entire team can have trouble with, yet can still be accomplished by a single player. Yet again, this requires continuous, max rate endurance use for up to 20-30 minutes.

• Solo running Taskforces: I (and many other players) ran Positron dozens of times solo with a character that didn't even have Stamina. BillZ did all 6 Freedom Phalanx TF's in ONE DAY solo. The ITF has been completed solo.

• Normal PvE content set for x8: Many players run normal missions solo set for a team size of 8. If single players can deal with the spawns that a full team of players normally encounter without running out of endurance, how hard can it be to optimize endurance use for normal difficulty?

• Farming: This is all about speed. Wasted time cuts into efficiency. So, once again, we have solo players, set for maximum team size, running maps that may require 10-20 minutes to clear. They are constantly on the offensive, with no pause or rest, running as fast as possible, yet can manage this without running out of endurance.

Still waiting for you to refute this...

You missed the point by such a wide margin... Not a single person in this thread has stated that COH CAN BE NO BETTER. You might want to read the whole thread before you chip in.

In that quote, I was refering to the community ***** slapping Ultimo_ is getting because of his lack of social skills. Kinda like when a pack of dogs "correct" the behavior of a dog in the pack showing aberrant, and unsocialized traits.

I'm pretty sure everyone realizes Ultimo_ wont change. He seems to post the same complaint over and over with different window dressing while remaining ignorant of why he gets the same reaction over and over. (Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein) It has reached the point where the only purpose to responding to him, is to use him as an example to the community of how not to act.

No one here is telling anyone to micro manage, and to crunch numbers. If you want to RP, all the power to you, no one is stopping you. But you still need to use the tools within the game to do it. You cant just imagine that your toon can give a withering stare to Statesman and he crumbles to the floor praising your name and expect that to actually happen in game.

I dont care what powers you take in order to have your fun, it does not affect me at all. Have all the fun you want. I dont recommend coming to the boards, asking for help with said fun, given perfectly good ways to work around the issue so you can still have your fun but totally ignore all offered help because it was not solution you were looking for.

I'll tell you what, I wont roll my eyes at your RPing, or badge hunting, or yiffing, or whatever it is you get from this game(well, I might point and laugh if you are yiffing, but I wont propose they stop you from PMing eachother...) and you dont roll your eyes at me for having fun by getting xp.

You are dogpiled because you state an opinion, propose to change a major game mechanic, and then plug your ears to any solution that doesnt match what you want to hear. Your opinion is wrong. Wrongity wrongity wrong. It could not be more wrong even if it was sliced up and stuck between a couple of slices of wrong. Depeche Mode's new(ish) single "Wrong" was written about your opinion(the song sucks bad because your opinion is so wrong). I can confidently say that without facts or proof because you are wrong.

Where does this idea come from? I've seen it going around a bit recently and it's remarkably stupid. Opinions can be, and frequently are, wrong. Some people were of the opinion that the Earth was the centre of the Solar System. They were wrong. Conversely, opinions can be right. To continue the same example, most people are of the opinion that the Sun is the centre of the Solar System. Their opinions are right. Opinions are just beliefs, and just like beliefs they can often be easily disproved.

Those are beliefs, not opinions.

They are amazingly similar, those two.

If they're beliefs, how come what I said made perfect sense when I used the word opinion?

Beliefs and opinions are pretty much the same thing. And while there are some that can't be wrong, there are many that can.

Believe it!

How terrible of me to suggest this game could be improved.

I think you should probably stop with the animal metaphors.

You know if she needed you to come to her game and kill her players, then they were right. Gamemastering is an art. Being willing and able to kill players doesn't mean it was a good game.

However, Stamina is not the equivalent of 'getting in shape.' Otherwise, we'd start the game taking nothing but that tree. I can see you're making a case that 1-20 is the equivalent of Newb Hero learning the ropes...but I think that model is already played out by the progression of abilities and power levels.

Is the new sobriquet 'Lord' meant to twit me?

Courtesy of the Cambridge dictionary:

opinion noun
•
[C] a thought or belief about something or someone.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Just because opinions are beliefs does not mean that beliefs are opinions.

Semantics are fun!

Just since you posted this I have to refute. First listed from dictionary.com

be·lief
–noun
1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.

"Something believed" may, in fact, turn out to be a fact. For instance: a belief that the earth is round. Indeed, when one holds something to be a belief one is often supposing that it is a fact even if one has no proof. Opinions, on the other hand, are typically regarded as purely subjective appraisals.

Semantics being what they are, your kilometerage may vary.