I'm no task force expert (I've run three ever). But while Regen tends to have very high peak survivability, you also have to really be on your game to reach that peak survivability. Mistakes will kill you. So I assume they're looking at it from the standpoint of "One mistake from this guy, and we fail. We're not willing to take that risk on someone we don't know."
Other than that, on my one run of the STF, I saw no reason that Regen would be considered particularly weak on it. Stay away from Ghost Widow, and don't be the guy tanking Lord Recluse. That's about all I remember.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I can't stand the STF anymore because of all the Master runs (my Brazilian friends often requested my mind/emp to help them get the badge), but scrappers aren't very welcome in those (I ran a few Masters formed on channels too so I'm not speaking from the PoV of the Brazilian guys only). Usually people want one emp, a rad, a tank and the rest, blasters. And the blasters are usually told not to nuke and stay in range. Haven't run a MO since i13 so I don't know nowadays how appreciated /colds, /therms and other newer powersets are.
Reason is, even a softcapped /SR can get two-shotted by an AV, so a regen would be even worse in that regard.
Please note that I'm not saying that this is the 'right' way of doing a MoSTF, this is only what I've seen, especially from MoSTFs formed in channels (the channel ones usually only accept granite tankers btw - that only reinforces the reason people are 'afraid' of other melee toons in the Mo attempts), since of course the brazilian guys I did them are more tolerant because they know each other already and someone always want to take some toon out of the pattern I described to get the badge, meaning it's perfectly possible for you to find a group of ingame friends who are willing to take your /regen to a Mo attempt.
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How? a regen will have Dull pain which will put them at the max hit points, seeing that they both don't have good resis number that would put the regen in a better place, regen also have a heal too. Also I would assume on a MoSTF run they would have a Tank so the AV really shouldn't be attacking the Scrapper that much if at all depending on how good the Tank is.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
Reason is, even a softcapped /SR can get two-shotted by an AV, so a regen would be even worse in that regard.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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I completely agree with the part I bolded, I was just stating the general behaviour the MO TFs on the channels (usually) show. They don't like melee except for the tank in most cases.|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
How? a regen will have Dull pain which will put them at the max hit points, seeing that they both don't have good resis number that would put the regen in a better place, regen also have a heal too. Also I would assume on a MoSTF run they would have a Tank so the AV really shouldn't be attacking the Scrapper that much if at all depending on how good the Tank is.
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I know about regen's strengths, but people have this perception from seeing so many (maybe bad) regens getting two-shotted when going against for example, 2 pink freak tanks, who aren't exacly big threats. This happens a lot especially while leveling and the regens don't have global recharge. The /SR can avoid getting hit much more easily and use greens. Of course you guys here build your regens to perform at top levels and have layered mitigations like some defense, but a lot of people view regens as very squishy. I know my elec/regen Stalker (my first regen ever) will have awesome survivability after she gets global rech and 30ish melee/25 ranged defs and shadow meld, but right now at 28 and SOs I find her lacking in survivability against groups of mobs compared to how my /ninjitsu was at that level, although I'm enjoying my regen a lot (yes I know Dull Pain is much better on a scrapper because of low stalker HP cap).
But assuming you're 100% right and I'm 100% wrong about the regen not being able to survive as well as a /SR, the perception that regens can die too fast exists. Add that to the 'prejudice' melee toons suffer in MoSTFs (except as I said, in groups of people who know you), and it's easy to understand why the OP is being turned down on Mo attempts. I mean, even non -Granite Tankers are usually not accepted on MoSTFs formed in channels. And as I wrote before, leaders (MoSTFs almost always have someone designed to give orders to make sure things runs well, and I think it's a good thing) tell blasters not to use melee attacks and not to nuke. People are scared of melee toons in MoSTFs, especially since in a channel TF you won't know all the players.
Not that I agree with that, but that's what I saw in numerous MoSTFs attempts, failed or successful, that I've done. I think the only way I can ever get my Em/Nin stalker (softcapped and stuff, and /nin has reconstruction to help) in a MoRSF is if I ask my brazilian coalition or the Repeat Offenders, i doubt I'd be accepted in a server channel attempt, and I know I can play her very well and be cautious when needed.
Yeah, it isn't too hard to make DP permanent, and even if it isn't, it's 2 minutes can keep a scrapper in melee range of an AV for long enough. If they have to back off for a little bit to keep safe from AoEs, no biggie, especially since most scrappers have some form of ranged attack by level 45 to keep up the damage till DP is back and they can get back in the fight.
Just ask my spine/regen who has MoSTF badge, think he's the only char I have that got it.
I've run many MoSTFs and the reason that people don't like them is because they are susceptible to spike damage. If the player accidentally aggros a mob because they aren't paying much attention, or the player gets hit by a slow or something, it's very possible that the player could die before clicking the heal and have it go off in time. Sets like invuln, WP, shield, and SR allow for a larger lapse in the player's attention or whatever. I have a friend who likes to bring his regen on MoSTFs and I don't care whatsoever because I know he is a great player who isn't going to die. But someone I don't know at all? I probably don't want him on a regen. (Unless I have 2 colds on the team which I prefer to do)
Just thought I'd throw in just how useful MoG is. My IO'd to hell and back regen Scrapper saved us from a teamwipe once when the tank died. I taunted Ghost Widow and popped MoG, which gave the empath enough time to rez the tank.
And with perma-DP, you can take burst decently well.
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning
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Because a lot of people that form teams are ignorant and/or just plain stupid.
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Originally Posted by Post_Apocalypse
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?
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Honestly, "any single" archtype and power set can complete a Master Of run. However, there is a flip side to that statement. Not all possible archtype teaming "combinations" can complete a Master Of Run.|
Originally Posted by Post_Apocalypse
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?
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Some players swear up and down that you "need" a stone tank to do a MoSTF run. However, I, personally, have done MoSTF runs where Shield, Ice, and Invuln tanks have worked the Task Force without dying. Some players swear up and down that you "need" a Radiation Emission... but I've done MoSTF runs with only darks and kins available for debuffs / buffs.
Sometimes it takes thinking a bit laterally... like spending time before Ourobous before hand and having loads of Tier 2 and Tier 3 inspirations in SG storage or email to draw on when the fight mobs stop dropping inspirations. Just about any tank with any sort of Defense can pop 3 Tier 2 purples and "survive" against Recluse's strikes.
Would I never take a power set combination on a Master Of attempt? I don't think so. I would make sure that I had my buffs / debuffs / and aggro control addressed before casting about for additional players.
Wow! You all need to get on over to Virtue and team with me.
Now I don't promise the Mo will happen, but I've run them with PuGs, most might not make the Mo part, but a handful do...not to mention...eh...if you dont get the Mo badge, you see get merits or a Hami-O!
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The BrandX Collection
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This applies to anyone who doesn't fully understand their toon, no matter what AT they're playing.
| A Regen on a Master Run? No way! |
@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant
Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]
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The answer you received was from a team that sucked. |
Originally Posted by Post_Apocalypse
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?
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My Claws/Regen wears his MoSTF badge proudly.
There were a couple times I almost killed the attempt, but I've been playing that character a LONG time, so my reflexes and timing are almost always spot on.
It's a difficult badge for a /Regen to get, but by no means impossible. My advice: Find a better team.
The problem with MoSTF in particular is the fact that there are several enemies in it that can hit for more than scrapper HP cap (Dr. Aeon once hit me for over 2900 damage). Since /Regen doesn't have much in the way of native defense or resistance you will probably take a lot of hits, and some of them can and will kill you before you can react with a heal.
I got my badge on a team that included both a Cold Domination and a Force Fielder, with an Emp and Stone tank leading the way. If there is no one on the team that can buff your defense/resistance, your odds of dropping on a regen are pretty good.
It sounds like what you encountered was a not-exactly-optimal team making the attempt. On my run my Claws/Regen and a Spines/Willpower both got their Master badge. That's not just one, but TWO characters prone to burst damage death that got their badge on the same run, so it CAN be done.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Maybe they thought you wanted to tank Recluse.
After that, I'm having trouble coming up with a reason.
There's idiots everywhere... some of them organize task forces.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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...and some idiots join them.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
There's idiots everywhere... some of them organize task forces.
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What's running through there mind at the moment isn't necessarily "We can't do it with a Regen Scrapper," but more along the lines of "Do I trust this PUG I don't know using a powerset notorious for spontaneous deaths to not to die?"
I'll be honest, I'd have reservations too.
[edit: Which is basically what Werner posted in the first response. Heh.]
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Ding.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Because a lot of people that form teams are ignorant and/or just plain stupid.
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I have to agree with this, while a Regen can complete the MoSTF it really IS more subject to spike damage suddenly killing it. With an unknown quantity behind the controls I'd be reluctant to have a Regen on a MoSTF myself; an Invuln, Shield or SR would be considerably less likely to get dropped than a Regen.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
...and some idiots join them.
What's running through there mind at the moment isn't necessarily "We can't do it with a Regen Scrapper," but more along the lines of "Do I trust this PUG I don't know using a powerset notorious for spontaneous deaths to not to die?" I'll be honest, I'd have reservations too. [edit: Which is basically what Werner posted in the first response. Heh.] |
I do have and play Regen... two of my 3 level 50 scrappers are regen. Even so I wouldn't take either on a MoSTF run myself; I'd much rather take something where a split second of inattention wasn't going to result in a failed run. I couldn't play the character to it's ability without running too much risk of death... something I don't ever worry about in normal missions but something that's critical on a Master run.
So I can absolutely understand the reluctance to trust a regen on a Master run... I frankly wouldn't trust playing it myself and I like to think I'm a somewhat competent player. Yeah, I could probably do it, but I'd have to be much more cautious than normal which cuts down on the efficiency.
I've been one-shotted by AOE splash while we were taking down Lord Recluse with my Spine/Regen despite attacking him from behind with a good tank holding aggro. I've been one-shotted by Scirocco's tornadoes despite a good tank holding aggro.
While Regen is a good set it's just too susceptible to spike damage from the AV's. The odds are simply better on avoiding that sudden spike with a different secondary. MoSTF is very difficult to accomplish, even a really great team will have the odds stacked against them. Out of roughly 30 attempts I've gotten the badge 8 times.
I'd probably give it a try if the player really wanted the badge on that regen but I wouldn't put very high odds on success. Then again, I've only gotten the badge once on a PuG anyway... dealing with unknown quantities in a PuG are just asking for trouble. The one PuG success was really debatable if it was a PuG or not since everyone was a long time vet and everyone at least vaguely knew each other.
There's two places where most MoSTF runs fail... in the Thorn Tree room or facing Dr Aeon. I've only blown a Mo run twice in the last mission; once to Scirocco and once to Ghost Widow. Once it was the Regen who died and the other time it was a Controller. Oddly enough once you've blown it everyone seems to quit worrying and you'll end up with a bunch of deaths in the final mission... but if you're still good getting on the chopper you're likely to make it the distance.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Regen is kinda like empathy in that some really, really horrible players ruined it for the good ones out there. I too know the sting of prejudice that /regen receives on any kind of Master run, and like people have previously stated it's not about the powerset so much as the player.|
Originally Posted by Post_Apocalypse
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?
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The regen scrapper, when played well, is just as every bit devastating as any other scrapper and should have the highest survivability rate. Having some resistances and defenses are an awesome thing, but the point of regeneration, IMHO, is to be able to absorb the damage that comes your way. It's prime ability lies in its ability not to mitigate damage, but to simply soak it. But in order to have a regen scrapper that can take the hits and keep on trucking requires an active and responsible player who knows how to handle that power under the hood, and on any kind of PUG people simply aren't going to have that kind of trust in you unless you've got the sets and vet badges to back up your swagger.
Assuming though that you've got the badges, got the sets and got the swagger then it just sounds like it was a team leader who hasn't embraced the art of creative team building
I don't have any issues doing anything in this game with my Kat/Regen. Some people just build crappy toons in all i can think of. He was my first 50, and out of 5 years, he's the only toon that i HAVENT deleted for xtra alts to play.
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I'd go with what Werner hits here.|
Originally Posted by Werner
But while Regen tends to have very high peak survivability, you also have to really be on your game to reach that peak survivability. Mistakes will kill you. So I assume they're looking at it from the standpoint of "One mistake from this guy, and we fail. We're not willing to take that risk on someone we don't know."
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Regen may be very survivable and IO'd is easy to be very godly depending on your primary. Unfortunately for regen unless you build it as such you have minimal defense/resistance and that's what the teams don't like. If you're not on top of your game it's easy to go down very fast in comparison to other scrapper secondaries.
I myself generally like to know the person and the regen scrapper before I have them along on my MoWhatever, but in general I like to know everyone who comes along. There have been several times that I haven't however and I just went with a slightly different team makeup to help both the regen and the rest of the team with survivability, like bringing a couple Colds along for instance.
Regens are awesome, but sometimes they just aren't.
Space reserved for a super awesome Signature, someday...
If I ever sign up to join the AT police when organising TF's and SF's, someone please send round a rabid Mr T. to facepalm me.
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Looks like I won't ever be getting these Mo badges, because my main is a Claws/Regen and I don't take the game as seriously as some people do. I know my toon inside and out, but if I die I die, and I can live with it. I just enjoy playing, and don't like teaming with people who make the game seem like a chore.
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Screw those people! Find a team who wants to have fun while teaming up, and enjoy yourself. I'm sure you'd enjoy playing the game for a couple of hours with a fun team, rather than having orders barked at you from a team leader who takes the game far too seriously. If you never get the Mo badges, it's not the end of the World. Just have fun, and remember to use protection |
Originally Posted by Post_Apocalypse
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?
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Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Regen on a master run, i did that on my regen and passed 
, i even had a Peacebringer on the team along with my regen, but I guess it depends how your team is like.
You think /regen gets the shaft in MoSTF? Try /DA. A friend of mine on virtue was waiting near States on a saturday after the hami raid to get on a team. Two people were picking players to be on their team based on their AT and powers. People were standing with others with the same AT and when they got picked, they moved near the leader. It was like school yard kickball. My friend didn't get picked because of his power set DM/DA. It was like he was the fat and slow kid on the playground with out a teacher forcing them pick him for a team. I had thought I seen it all in this game.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
This is the anser that I received when I tried to join a MSTF, i have a IO'd out build, but I want to hear other people's opinions about why regen is/isnt good for that TF?