Hating the new market interface so far...
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2010-05-04 18:46 in The Market and Inventions
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So just because you don't sweat the 'small stuff' other players shouldn't either? Not every player has hundreds of millions to throw around because of the poor auto-fill implementation.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Either that or when I am selling things for 10s to hundreds of millions I don't sweat the small stuff.
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Try again kiddo, you haven't shown anything. I can easily see your inf and call your IOS.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Um...yah. About that. If you want to get into a mine is bigger than yours, son. Mine is bigger than yours. I've got more than one toon that's capped twice over and a bunch that are sitting in the range of the screen cap.
That's on top of giving away literally thousands of merits for no good reason at all. Look at my sig for a small bit of it. I only have one purpled out toon and that was just because people nagged me to do it. The rest are minimally IO'd. Total merits...probably around 40-50k currently. Probably close to 20B inf on hand with about 50-60B in IOs sitting around in a base. I'm using the point to illustrate that you do not need to slot IOs to get decent rewards (as you were trying to suggest otherwise), yet you turn this into a tool waving contest. Wrong is wrong. Bzzzt. PS. Cropped image. Merits were introduced recently so the time differential between players isn't really important unless that player joined very recently. Difficult to prove regardless in a merits/minute comparison. |
The point is how long did it take you to get them and how did you did you get them ?
The only thing your original post proved is that you play the game alot.
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You really really need to ask yourself how you can make better use of the system. Every time you say something here about it, it becomes more and more apparent you are fighting it, because it isnt what you are used to, instead of working with it.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
So just because you don't sweat the 'small stuff' other players shouldn't either? Not every player has hundreds of millions to throw around because of the poor auto-fill implementation.
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I'm not sure how much more clear I can be: when I "work with" the system, it only helps me to do things that I don't want to do. When I try to do the things that I want to do, the system makes it harder. Making a certain methodology for performing a task more efficient is not a win if that methodology is not a good methodology.
Or are you seriously suggesting that I waste inf by purchasing all items at prices that are powers of ten?
Incidentally, your sizable wallet combined with your ludicrous suggested methodology suggest a disconnect with how players begin interacting with the market that reminds me of the story of the presidential candidate and the grocery scanner. I really hope I don't have to explain why the initial interaction is important to a game that people are hopefully playing for the first time every day. More personally, it's important to your own continued wealth (and of course the continued existence of a context where that "wealth" has any meaning).
Unfortunately, I don't have a user pool to do proper interaction testing of this interface, but I'll give a shot at putting some friends and family in front of the interface, giving them some tasks, and watching how they go about it. Of course, Paragon Studios has hopefully done this already.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
I am so glad I looked once again before hitting the links. In the same thread I have been both accused of having poor marketing skills and having so much money I don't care about the common people.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Or are you seriously suggesting that I waste inf by purchasing all items at prices that are powers of ten?
Incidentally, your sizable wallet combined with your ludicrous suggested methodology suggest a disconnect with how players begin interacting with the market that reminds me of the story of the presidential candidate and the grocery scanner. I really hope I don't have to explain why the initial interaction is important to a game that people are hopefully playing for the first time every day. More personally, it's important to your own continued wealth (and of course the continued existence of a context where that "wealth" has any meaning). |
Be happy I think this will add strokes to my game as I will be unable to stop chuckling while trying to make shots.
Bah, you BOTH need to be flogged for merit hoarding. PROVIDE US OUR SHINIES!!
/doesn't do anything that earns merits at any appreciable pace
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Go ahead, make my day. All you've proved to everyone is that you lost. Get over it and move on.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Try again kiddo, you haven't shown anything. I can easily see your inf and call your IOS.
The point is how long did it take you to get them and how did you did you get them ? The only thing your original post proved is that you play the game alot. |
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Obviously wealth and marketing skills don't necessarily go hand in hand. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Keep stroking, just don't stroke out.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I am so glad I looked once again before hitting the links. In the same thread I have been both accused of having poor marketing skills and having so much money I don't care about the common people.
Be happy I think this will add strokes to my game as I will be unable to stop chuckling while trying to make shots. |
boy you guys sure did make this topic into an epeen one didnt you?
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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When you get back from your game, you may wish to consider the different kind of money-management skills required from those whose job it is to turn a large pool of money into a larger pool of money, and those who are trying to make the most of a small pool of money. You said it yourself: because you are working with such large quantities, you can afford to overspend on some purchases by a considerable percentage margin because the absolute value of that margin is small compared to your overall volume of business. It may be the case that autofill is an optimization for the way you go about your business, but this comes at the expense of many users for whom that same loss margin represents an unacceptably high percentage of their wealth.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I am so glad I looked once again before hitting the links. In the same thread I have been both accused of having poor marketing skills and having so much money I don't care about the common people.
Be happy I think this will add strokes to my game as I will be unable to stop chuckling while trying to make shots. |
Of course, this leaves you free to brush off such concerns as the consequence of failing to properly utilize the market or the rest of the game to maximize wealth generation. Very well: but historically, when elite users of a feature consider it fine, and average users do not, the developers tend to listen to the concerns associated with the larger pool of actual revenue. And that can very easily lead to changes that are detrimental to everyone. Personally, I'm happy to see so many of the people who are heavy users of the market asking for changes that benefit all market users, when it would be just as easy to recommend optimizations for unusual use cases or traps for the uninformed.
Edit: Full disclosure. I am a moderate market user. I don't have anything approaching the level of resources you're demonstrating. I'm aware of some steps I could take to obtain that level of wealth, and I know who to ask and what I'd want to read if I wanted to learn more, but it's more effort than I'm interested in putting into the game, and more importantly it's effort expended in pursuits I don't consider entertaining. I can get what I want in a timeframe that I consider acceptable, but I do have to be careful with my resources. The changes to the market interface have made my interactions with it more time-consuming, more risky, and therefore less pleasant.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
He started it.|
Originally Posted by Hazygreys
boy you guys sure did make this topic into an epeen one didnt you?
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>.>
<.<
v.v
OK, I'll stop.
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This does indeed appear to be the quality of suggestion with which A_F now graces us.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Or are you seriously suggesting that I waste inf by purchasing all items at prices that are powers of ten?
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I am done going back and forth with him on this. As another poster mentioned earlier, he'll almost certainly wander away from this full of the notion that he won the argument. I'm sure that the fact that so many folks posting here disagree with him is just evidence of how superior he actually is.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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This message is hidden because Another_Fan is on your ignore list. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
This does indeed appear to be the quality of suggestion with which A_F now graces us.
I am done going back and forth with him on this. As another poster mentioned earlier, he'll almost certainly wander away from this full of the notion that he won the argument. I'm sure that the fact that so many folks posting here disagree with him is just evidence of how superior he actually is. |
Best way to cut down on the extraneous background noise..
The times they are a changing.
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VS|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
As another poster mentioned earlier, he'll almost certainly wander away from this full of the notion that he won the argument. I'm sure that the fact that so many folks posting here disagree with him is just evidence of how superior he actually is.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I believe instead the conversation has been reduced to you refusing to admit that certain levels of wit and intellect are within the reach of the majority of people with at least a middle-school education in the United States. Which, honestly, isn't saying that much in the industrialized world, which is the only place we should expect to find people able to spend US$15 a month to play a video game.
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Is your thesis that 100-1000 inf represents too large a percentage of someones wealth ?|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
When you get back from your game, you may wish to consider the different kind of money-management skills required from those whose job it is to turn a large pool of money into a larger pool of money, and those who are trying to make the most of a small pool of money. You said it yourself: because you are working with such large quantities, you can afford to overspend on some purchases by a considerable percentage margin because the absolute value of that margin is small compared to your overall volume of business. It may be the case that autofill is an optimization for the way you go about your business, but this comes at the expense of many users for whom that same loss margin represents an unacceptably high percentage of their wealth.
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I would be willing to grant the idea if you were vendoring salvage recipes and enhancements, but the new interface is a giant friend to anyone doing this. They are almost always bidding the same low ball amounts for stacks and stacks of items. They just need to key it in once and go hog wild.
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Of course, this leaves you free to brush off such concerns as the consequence of failing to properly utilize the market or the rest of the game to maximize wealth generation. Very well: but historically, when elite users of a feature consider it fine, and average users do not, the developers tend to listen to the concerns associated with the larger pool of actual revenue. And that can very easily lead to changes that are detrimental to everyone. Personally, I'm happy to see so many of the people who are heavy users of the market asking for changes that benefit all market users, when it would be just as easy to recommend optimizations for unusual use cases or traps for the uninformed. Edit: Full disclosure. I am a moderate market user. I don't have anything approaching the level of resources you're demonstrating. I'm aware of some steps I could take to obtain that level of wealth, and I know who to ask and what I'd want to read if I wanted to learn more, but it's more effort than I'm interested in putting into the game, and more importantly it's effort expended in pursuits I don't consider entertaining. I can get what I want in a timeframe that I consider acceptable, but I do have to be careful with my resources. The changes to the market interface have made my interactions with it more time-consuming, more risky, and therefore less pleasant. |
I do know this, for crafting and selling drops, the market is very much easier to use. Just pop the recipe in, and work your way up the salvage in cost. All you have to do is click change one or 2 digits and bid.
For flipping its a positive joy. Bidding on multiple stacks of items incredible in its ease. Low balling similar items equally so.
For buy and crafting , its the best of both the above.
For selling drops its a giant plus if you have an idea how much things should cost, and a slight positive if you don't.
For the people that sell everything at 1 inf, well now they only have to type that once, and I don't think they will cry about about it if that's what they bid for something.
Seriously, just how has the new interface made your interactions more risky ? You can't be troubled to read your bids/offers before hitting post ?
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
This message is hidden because Another_Fan is on your ignore list.
Best way to cut down on the extraneous background noise.. |
Didn't you rage quit over the new interface ?
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
This is exactly the situation I find myself in. After much deliberation, I have canceled both of my accounts, due to the current issues. I've played City of Heroes solid for two years. Not once during that time did anything cause me to consider canceling my subscription. Until now.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Go ahead, make my day. All you've proved to everyone is that you lost. Get over it and move on.
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I'm the guy who isn't having a problem using the market. You're the guy that can't be troubled to look at the numbers they are bidding. What a strange set of victory conditions you have.
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I see 15,600 merits and look back to the debate about implementing a new reward system in the first place. "Players will hoard merits rather than participating in an integral aspect of the MMO ecosystem."|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Untrue ?
 This is just to illustrate how inadequate your post is 9500 >> 6100 We could also go into the time it took you to get them etc etc. |
LOL. Merits are e-peen now.
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Why, so they are. And yet it cannot be undone, apparently.
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Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
LOL. Merits are e-peen now.
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@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
Sure they can. Look at base salvage. Vintage and oh so collectible.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Why, so they are. And yet it cannot be undone, apparently.
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I'll leave it to other readers to decide what's more likely - that everyone here who's disagreeing with you is actually a moron who can't achieve that same basic level of wit, or your arguments are specious.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well I don't know about superiority, but I seem to have been able to meet the requirements you describe above.
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The autocomplete behavior forces the market user to seek ease through shortcuts such as those you suggest, whether it's desirable for them or compatible with their market strategy. You've stated that you don't care enough about the actual prices for that to matter to you, and therefore you find the mixture of that with the actual improvements in the new interface fantastic. Bully for you. The interface shouldn't force the rest of us to bid/list like you do.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I've long been on the fence as to whether AF is genuinely as deluded as he appears or is a bad faith operator who's only goal is to generate drama.
Uber's efforts in this thread have resoundingly answered that question at least.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Dear Market Interface,
*Please stop making my actions disappear and needing to be redone 3 or 4 times before they "stick". It's tedious beyond belief watching a bit of Salvage I've bought disappear from the Market Interface but fail to appear in my Salvage and then pop back into the MI 20 seconds later. Makes trying to buy and build a few common a frustation I'd rather not bother with. Taken with all the other crap you pull on me it just makes purchasing anything so frustrating.
Love (well not really)
Carni
PS : You're still ugly
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It was just as tedious when it happened with the old interface. Not quite beyond belief perhaps, but quite tedious. Fortunately the benefits of the new interface vastly makes up for this occasional lag-caused tedium that has nothing to do with the interface itself.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Dear Market Interface,
* Please stop making my actions disappear and needing to be redone 3 or 4 times before they "stick". It's tedious beyond belief watching a bit of Salvage I've bought disappear from the Market Interface but fail to appear in my Salvage and then pop back into the MI 20 seconds later. Makes trying to buy and build a few common IOs tedious beyond belief. Taken with all the other crap you pull on me it just makes purchasing anything so frustrating. |
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
This is just to illustrate how inadequate your post is
9500 >> 6100
We could also go into the time it took you to get them etc etc.
That's on top of giving away literally thousands of merits for no good reason at all. Look at my sig for a small bit of it. I only have one purpled out toon and that was just because people nagged me to do it. The rest are minimally IO'd.
Total merits...probably around 40-50k currently. Probably close to 20B inf on hand with about 50-60B in IOs sitting around in a base.
I'm using the point to illustrate that you do not need to slot IOs to get decent rewards (as you were trying to suggest otherwise), yet you turn this into a tool waving contest. Wrong is wrong. Bzzzt.
PS. Cropped image. Merits were introduced recently so the time differential between players isn't really important unless that player joined very recently. Difficult to prove regardless in a merits/minute comparison.