Hating the new market interface so far...

Or Kevin Bacon's initiation in Animal House.

So we should all respond to the UI comments with "Thank you, sir! May I have another?"

All the crafted enhancements are now alphabetized and available from the tree menu. So if you have a crushing impact acc/dam recipe and you want to know how much its going for for you just select the crushing impact acc/dam subtree from the item tree.

Shouldn't have let that go before but its not applicable. All it shows is you haven't hit a level of proficiency with the new interface.

Lets take common tasks for most players

1. I have a recipe drop that I would like to realize a profit on

Old interface
1. Drop the recipe into the market see where the last 5 prices are

2. Go over to the crafted enhances and try to find where the crafted version of my recipe is usually involved first figuring out if the name was arranged the same way on the crafted version as the recipe. Scroll through the non alphabetized lists of every enhancement to find it. If I had an off level version turn on all get the price history

3. If I liked the price, check the list of salvage needed for the recipe,
3 A. Write down the list of salvage
3 B. Search for each piece of salvage
3 C. check the total

New Interface

1. Drop recipe onto market check last five price
2. hit find, hit search for salvage, get list of all the salvage needed with their last 5 prices
3. Check the cost of crafted, hit crafted hit subtree for particular enhancement have everything there with highlighting for active types.


Buying insps/crafted enhancements

You can now do this 10 at a time versus one at a time.

Persistent price entry is fantastic when you are selling more than one of anything or buying more than one of anything.

Your claims about the old versus the new interface are only valid for people who haven't gotten past the minimal learning curve for the new interface.

As much as I feel the Devs will stick to their positions even when wrong, I really don't feel they decided to redo the entire market system just to frustrate the player base. The new market is very much smoother for common tasks. Its especially improved if you aren't specializing in particular items and want to use the market to craft your drops and sell them or buy enhancements for a build.

Its pretty clear that the devs did have a segment of the game population in mind when they did what may have been a mandatory redesign.

The point here is that because they improved it in response to user feedback it proves that they didn't have an idea of what they were doing ?


Yes it was but if you were struggling with the old interface, either because it was crashing your system or because it just wasn't intuitive to you that was one more hurdle to overcome.

They are not separate things. You can't interact with the market without using the interface.


That is your opinion one which is contradicted by posts in this thread, given how the forum treats dissenting

That's like saying anyone who didn't like spreadsheets because they used T-Maker on a CP/M system would still not like spreadsheets when they have the opportunity to use Wing-Z on a Mac.

Its false on the face.

Was that meant to be relevant ? Or is the best you can do is misconstrue something to make an off topic claim ?

This is patently ridiculous. Not even specious.

If they wanted to *autofill* the value for me, they should allow me the choice of using the last transacted value for the item instead of the last filled in value.

Just because I want to buy a Miracle proc at 300M does not mean I want to buy a kinetic weapon at 300M.

If by fantastic you mean naive, then I wholeheartedly agree.

^^THIS^^

Was a painintheass for me last night.


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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson

You *can* use it to your advantage by tailoring your market uses to take advantage of our wonderful new "features". Like selling multiple copies of the same thing. So basically, I'm letting the new market UI dictate how I'm conducting at least some of my business. Social engineering ftw.

Oh, and I'm still loving unchecking all my helpful warnings and auto-complete "features" every. Single. Time. I log in. Thanks again devs. Oh wait, they don't read this forum, I forgot.

I myself have been making bank on the fact that the interface LOVES to find enhancements and HATES to find recipes.

=P

If you order your bids to take advantage of the fact that you will be buying or selling things in price bands its great. If your work pattern is very random in terms of price its horrible.

I just find myself buying the cheap stuff and working up to the more expensive things.

It also comes in very handy when selling. Just load items in a price range onto the market and work your way through.

If you use it well it does let you do things faster than the old interface. If you try and fight it, it will make you miserable.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

Frankly, you weren't very good at using the old interface. That you would claim this means I am not proficient with the new one is laughable, especially when the reasons have been explained (and which you have not answered at all in your great wall of examples).

On the old interface, I always typed a small substring of the crafted name. By now, I had the substrings for most recipes memorized. I could usually find any set of IO in three or four characters of substring.

Now I have a list. Scrolling through a list is a single mouse movement. The way I matched them, the only thing that made lists long enough for that scrolling to be laborious was if my level range for matching was too high. My response to that was to select the level I wanted in the minimum level widget and then select "1" (or anything under the minimum) in the maximum level widget, which would then snap to the max. (Doing this with the max widget took less target level discrimination, and so was faster.)

With the new interface, whether I have to do any level searching or not I always have to scroll the bottom of my market list. The last item interacted with is always off the bottom of my window, because that many of my market slots are always in use. That means that every transaction requires me to drag, scroll, click, scroll. Every. *******. Time. That's on top of any searching I might have to do.

So if you were to use the UI to find salvage (common/uncommon/rare) to craft an IO it's a random pattern?

Loading items in a price range is laughable to the extreme, since you are also expecting people to know how much each item is going to cost, and even then incrementing the price is still not compatible with the auto-fill implementation. Even if you decided to sort on rarity your concept is horribly broken.

Trying to justify a usage for the current auto-fill implementation just highlights how outstanding in the field you are with this. You are trying to explain how an edge case is so much better for every other situation is the tail wagging the dog.

Someone should save this post and put it with the 8 tanks collection.

They changed things that they knew needed to be changed because of feedback, and they changed things that no one is aware of any feedback requesting the specific implementation they created.

"The market interface is non-intuitive, fix it" is not a valid interface design requirement. "The market interface crashes me, fix it" is a whole lot better. "I want a vertical list of market slots that does not show me unused slots" is a fantastic interface design requirement. Who asked for it?

Very, very few of the voices heard in this forum who were anti market use even bothered to include this. People who hated the market hated the idea of the market. Even some people who liked the market had complaints about its interface.

But you can change the interface without changing the market. People who dislike the interface can like the market, and vice versa. While they act as parts of a greater whole, they are not wholly interlinked.

I view the market here broken up as something I'll call "Model, View, Community".

The Model is the domain design of the market rules. This is things like "highest bid will be matched with lowest sale price", how many market slots we can have (by level), how transaction fees work, and so on. These are rules that are invariant with how the View presents market data to us.

The View is the interface. It's about things like whether our slots are shown vertically or horizontally. It's about how many digits we can type into a transaction price. It's about our search interface.

The Community is what people in financial and economic forums usually mean when they use the word "markets". It's the collective mass of people who interact via the View and the Model. Their interactions encompass a vast array of other influences, like what's hot farming this week, what new powersets are out, and how many people are playing CoH or CoV.

Most of the posters who have come here with dislike about the market have primarily disliked the Community part of the system. They don't want other players "taking advantage" of them. They don't want to feel like they're "fleecing" other players. They don't like the prices the Community has settled on. Some of them also dislike the Model, because it engenders a certain aspect of PvP. While there have been things about the interface they don't like, the only one that consistently contributes to regular complaints about this game's market is the history display ... which has not changed whatsoever.

Yes, the three pieces act as a cohesive whole. Both the View and the Model influence the community. For example, the history of last five is not only a good example of this, but it's also something that doesn't have a clear home - is it part of the Model or the View? But the View can change without affecting the Model, and even if the Model changed, the Community would still be there, just acting under different operating rules.

Oh? Please quote specific posts to support this claim.

That example is a fine strawman. Your use of it is a fine way for you to try to save face, and that's about it. Spreadsheets are not optional in-game marketplaces in a superhero game. People who hate having a market in CoH, hate having it linked to getting their shinies, hate that there is a perceived "old guard" with lots of money and market sway, and don't want to spend time understanding the markets dynamics; those people will never like the CoH market, no matter what user interface it is given. Those people are the ones that have come here and been part of great flamewars about the market. Never once did one of them come here and participate in a great debate about how they refused to use the market because the interface sucked. Did people gripe about the interface? Sure - market pundits and haters alike. That doesn't mean you could meaningfully lump people who disliked the interface with people who hated the idea of the market.

I'm almost never selling 2 of the same thing. I'm usually selling my loot, which rarely drops in multiples of the same damn thing. This feature is beyond useless. I actually marketeer less now because it basically doubles the time it takes for me to list any given item. Man, it pisses me off. Sorry just needed to blow off some steam there.

Something that helped me a little bit with this is the realization that you can use the mouse to highlight the previous price. I click on the item, possibly click again in the price box (if I missed), click and drag the mouse over the price, then start typing. This is opposed to clicking the item, possibly clicking again in the price box, then having to backspace over the previous price.

It's all still a hell of a lot less convenient than just clicking in a price box that didn't move around with an expanding slot and starting typing, but at least it's a little better.

Once you get the price box active, you can Control-A to select it all, and just start typing rather than dragging. I find that just the smallest bit easier, though not everyone might.

Good to know. That's probably ever so slightly faster than what I was doing (as you say), but I'm looking for all the corners I can cut. Thanks!

When I read this my first thought was you need to work on learning to use the new interface. Its the kind of thing that leaps out at you. If you want want to craft an IO you just hit the search for salvage link at the bottom, its all layed out for you, start with the cheap commons and work your way up. If something is significantly more expensive add a digit. Couldn't be much easier.

Sorry you having trouble mastering this, but don't expect much traction when anyone who understands the new methods can demonstrate you are barking at the moon.

Well seeing as you now have an interface that can be resized to show you all your transactions at once, some people might consider that a great improvement. Seeing as it was requested repeatedlyand the game runs a 4:3 aspect ratio full screen vertical is not surprising.

Most people look at a thing as a whole. I know many people that didn't like using computers because of what could be considered minor interface issues. What you are doing here is asserting as fact what for you is at best a guess, and then misconstruing forum activity to support your position.

They are not separate things. You have to use the interface to benefit from the market. If you find it troublesome annoying or difficult to access something you aren't going to like it. This is especially true when you have to use it repeatedly.


Many people divide the nature of man into soul and body. They are wrong as well. The reductive method is fine for building the parts of a system and breaking it down, but in the end people buy a product they want not the pieces. When you go to buy a car, you don't purchase on the basis of do you like the brand of fuel line. Likewise, there are continuous arguments about development methodologies, and environments for software, I have never met a customer who actually cared.

And people who have difficulty using the interface to the market are more or less likely to get fleeced or taken advantage of ? You are also either deliberately or through faulty memory mischaracterizing the objections to the market "community". There were always just as many people that complained marketing took too long.

Well first its not a strawman but an analogy. But lets go through this fine canard you have presented. First the market is hardly optional in this game, neither is the IO system. They are only optional if you are willing to accept having underperforming characters, doing everything in the game slower and with greater difficulty and then receiving less rewards than everyone else.

Next if you can't deal with the market interface, how does that affect your ability to gain an understanding of market dynamics ?


As to your why did no one gain an understanding of what their barriers to using the market and then come here to argue the point ? Why didn't the web take off when Vanevar Bush came up with the idea in the 40s or when David Ahl started Xanadu in the 70s. Some things are only obvious in retrospect.

I have no doubt that there are some people that would hate a market and in game wealth no matter what. There are people running around with characters that are variations of captain communism, red gaurdian etc. I also know people that felt it was too much trouble to make use of the market or that it took too much time for them.

If your marketing powers are limited to adding a single digits to your last entered amount to increment makes it obvious how sophisticated of a marketer you are. It's that or you're left with trying to defend a poorly implemented feature by coming up with even more ludicrous suggestions by the post.

Now I see why Uber has continued pwning you throughout this thread.

Thanks for the billions, I guess. It explains how that Level 10 BotZ -kb IO I crafted went for 1 billion inf when the last sold was 100 million, and I had it listed for 300.1 million. 700 million profit isn't bad (or 900 million, depending on how you look at it).

The ideas you suggest are double plus ungood.

This is outright incorrect. While IOs can provide significant benefit, non-IO'd characters don't do everything slower and receive less rewards than everyone else. I've got toons with minimal IOs that are in the thousands of merits without needing to IO them. In fact while I can IO them, I see it as being kind of pointless.

The player behind the keyboard matters much more than the toon or the loot. Maybe a bit slower and a bit more difficult, but receiving less rewards than everyone else? Untrue.

Untrue ?



This is just to illustrate how inadequate your post is

9500 >> 6100

We could also go into the time it took you to get them etc etc.

Either that or when I am selling things for 10s to hundreds of millions I don't sweat the small stuff.