Hating the new market interface so far...
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2010-05-04 18:46 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
You didn't include the ability to right click and get info, which can be a very big deal with some of the items, especially temp powers.|
Originally Posted by Kitteh
1. The most recent transaction(s) in-progress or most recent items bought or sold should be auto-magically placed at the top of the appropriate tab (to include the ALL tab also) and not the bottom like the current design. (High)
2. The TAB key should advance the cursor from "bid price" to "quantity" (High) 3. The ESC should clear the field in which the cursor is active (High) 4. Please bring back the "transaction state" colors. Specifically, on the ALL tab, shade each item/row in the following manner: Bright Green for BOUGHT, Medium Green for BIDDING, Bright Blue for SOLD and Medium Blue for SELLING. Grey for STORED is wai. Color each tab name accordingly, as well. [See Smurphy's posted graphic upthread] (High) 5. Move the "Other" category back to the top of the recipes listing as opposed to alphabetizing it within the entire recipes listing as it is now. (High) 6. Implement a "classic" market U/I option if at all possible. (High) 7. Let us opt-out of persistent bids or remove persistent bids all together. (High) 8. Selecting a category in the left hand tree should narrow down search results accordingly. (High) 9. Implement the ability to search with each of the left-pane categories. (High). 10. Upon clicking a left-pane category, the search bar/field should be cleared and cursor placement should default at the left justify position therein. (High) 11. Implement persistent market U/I dimensions (High) 12. Implement "INF marks" at which we would receive transaction fee warning notifications. E.g., >=100K, >=500K, >=1M and >=5M. A discrete slide bar (like the one already used in the main U/I for changing font size) could be used for this. 13. When placing bids, there is no obvious/intuitive feedback that your bid has been placed. Alternative: Have the item flash Medium Green (to imply "Bidding" like in #4 above) two or three times before it auto-magically "slides over" to the actual BIDDING tab. 14. Let the user opt-out of receiving the "salvage warning" notification for common recipes. That is, the user would still receive the warning for all other recipes unless the user opts-out of the warning completely. 15. Implement the ability to minimize/contract an item in inventory after you have maximized/expanded that item. 16. Implement the ability to search for "For Sale OR Bidding" at the same time without using the FIND button workaround. Note: This could be a bug. 17. Add "up and down" arrows for the "quantity box" 18. The user should be able to color customize her/his market U/I just like the user can do currently with the "main" U/I. 19. Implement the classic U/I "string search" functionality 20. Give Temp recipes their own tab with the left-pane expansion |
I would also propose that clicking the tree SHOULD NOT refine a search to a specific type as it did before, but rather there should be a dropmenu that lets you specify what type you want to search. It would be more consistent with the level and rarity search options.
There should also be no "invisible" search settings. For example, if you search a specific item, like a recipe, then edit the search bar and search again, you will still be searching recipes only, even though you just entered text, so there must be some kind of invisible recipes setting.
What do you mean by #10?
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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If this means what I think it does (autocomplete means less search spam as users type), it could be even more efficient if it just required you to press enter or click search as opposed to spamming searches automatically.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Pohsyb went on record saying most of the performance improvements for the new market UI came from adding the autocomplete option.
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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
I didn't see this on Kitteh's list so thought I'd better check. When I click on an item under any of my tabs, it always shows zero selling, zero bidding. I've been assuming that everybody has this same problem, which forces one to search for the item up top to find out the number of bidders and sellers.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. They're doing a query on every single freakin' keystroke, which is amazingly inefficient (not to mention annoying when I make a type and backspace, noticing processing on Every. Single. Backstroke.). That's really great that you start looking for my alchemical silver as soon as I type "a", but let me at least get to alc, then hit enter or something. Horrible design.
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Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
If this means what I think it does (autocomplete means less search spam as users type), it could be even more efficient if it just required you to press enter or click search as opposed to spamming searches automatically.
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An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
The market isn't what I come to play the game for, but it's functionally essential to what I do enjoy about it. Take the market away and my dose rate of new shinies drops off, and that reduces my interest in play.
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Yep, I agree there is definitely a large degree of "Where The Shinies Are" to the market.
Not the "Wild" shinies per se = those are the ones you find street-sweeping or running radio/newspaper missions...
And while I'm logged in, I have to say that, using the market these days the most annoying thing to me is having to click in the quantity box
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| 17. Add "up and down" arrows for the "quantity box" |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
For the love of [deity of choice] please make it smaller and less clunky. I'm running at 1200x720 and the damn thing is still too big to fit nicely onto the screen (and I run at the smallest window size possible)
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Personally, I run in 1680x1050 with 113% window size and I originally thought the market window looked too small. Just to check, I moved the window size slider back and forth (to 100%, then back to 113%), and sure enough, I found out the market window was originally at 100% even though I had it at 113%.
... I'm not sure if I'm clear here. Basically, the market window seems to be locked at 100% window size until you move the slider, regardless of your actual settings.
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FWIW, I'll add it as #2a.
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Originally Posted by Cardiff_Giant
Yep, I agree there is definitely a large degree of "Where The Shinies Are" to the market.
Not the "Wild" shinies per se = those are the ones you find street-sweeping or running radio/newspaper missions... And while I'm logged in, I have to say that, using the market these days the most annoying thing to me is having to click in the quantity box Personally, I'd put this either at - or very near the top of the "fix-it list". |
Repeat Offenders
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It seems that there's a consensus on this being a bug, since the info is indeed displayed when searching as you have mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Void Spirit
I didn't see this on Kitteh's list so thought I'd better check. When I click on an item under any of my tabs, it always shows zero selling, zero bidding. I've been assuming that everybody has this same problem, which forces one to search for the item up top to find out the number of bidders and sellers.
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Repeat Offenders
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My apologies, if I've missed that one. Haven't read closely yet past #160 either. Are you referring to a description of what the item does and/or the damage, end cost, recharge etc.? Something else?|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
You didn't include the ability to right click and get info, which can be a very big deal with some of the items, especially temp powers.
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| I would also propose that clicking the tree SHOULD NOT refine a search to a specific type as it did before, but rather there should be a dropmenu that lets you specify what type you want to search. It would be more consistent with the level and rarity search options. |
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| There should also be no "invisible" search settings. For example, if you search a specific item, like a recipe, then edit the search bar and search again, you will still be searching recipes only, even though you just entered text, so there must be some kind of invisible recipes setting. |
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| What do you mean by #10? |
Repeat Offenders
So after a week of the new interface, I've gotten somewhat used to it and am taking advantage of the few good features, like auto-finding the salvage for recipes, and as much as it's a crappy feature, using the persistent prices when I put up similar items up for sale. Horribly dangerous, but when selling multiple, small items, can save some time.
I've gotten used to the multiple annoyances too, like having to unclick the autocomplete button and disabling the annoying warning messages. Every. Freaking. Time. Yes, I'm playing through the pain. I'm sure this won't affect my decision whether to renew my sub in a couple of weeks one bit.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
I need to check some of the comments with the U/I up in front of me, but I've made some adds and edits after reading through all of the posts. I still may have misrepresented some things, so let me know.
1. The most recent transaction(s) in-progress or most recent items bought or sold should be auto-magically placed at the top of the appropriate tab (to include the ALL tab as well) and not the bottom like the current design. (High)
2. Once an item is expanded in the top-right pane (upon being "found" or "searched", for example), the cursor should default to the "bid price" window. Alternative: If the previous is not feasible that the 1st TAB keystroke should move/default the cursor to the "bid price" window. (High)
2a. The TAB key should recursively advance the cursor from "bid price" to "quantity" (High)
3. The ESC should clear the field in which the cursor is active (High)
4. Please bring back the "transaction state" colors. Specifically, on the ALL tab, shade each item/row in the following manner: Bright Green for BOUGHT, Medium Green for BIDDING, Bright Blue for SOLD and Medium Blue for SELLING. Grey for STORED is wai. Color each tab name accordingly, as well. [See Smurphy's posted graphic upthread] (High)
5. Under "Recipes", move the "Other" category back to the top of the listing as opposed to alphabetizing it within the entire recipes listing as it is now. The idea here is that the most frequently transacted recipes (i.e., Commons) should be quickly and easily accessible. (High)
6. Implement a "classic" market U/I option if at all possible. (High)
7. Let us opt-out of persistent bids or remove persistent bids all together. (High)
8. Selecting a category in the left hand tree should narrow down search results accordingly. Subsequently, the search bar/field should be cleared and cursor placement should default at the left justify position therein.(High)
9. (Deleted - Duplicative of #8)
10. (Added to #8)
11. Implement persistent market U/I dimensions (High)
11a. Implement the ability to minimize/contract an item in inventory after you have maximized/expanded that item. Currently, the initial left-click on an item maximizes/expands it, but subsequent clicks do not minimize/contract the item. (High)
11b. Let the user opt-out of receiving the "salvage warning" notification for common recipes. That is, the user would still receive the warning for all other recipes unless the user opts-out of the warning completely. (High)
12. Implement "INF marks" at which we would receive transaction fee warning notifications. E.g., >=100K, >=500K, >=1M and >=5M. A discrete slide bar (like the one already used in the main U/I for changing font size) could be used for this.
13. When placing bids, there is no obvious/intuitive feedback that your bid has been placed. Alternative: Have the item flash Medium Green (to imply "Bidding" like in #4 above) two or three times before it auto-magically "slides over" to the actual BIDDING tab. Additional Alternative: Have the word BIDDING flash (in its current light yellow hue) two or three times as well.
13a. Please implement the same design as above for the "Selling"/SELLING process using the Medium Blue color.
14. (Now 11b)
15. (Now 11a)
16. Implement the ability to search for "For Sale OR Bidding" at the same time without using the FIND button workaround. Note: This could be a bug.
17. Add "up and down" arrows for the "quantity box". This is for bids.
18. The user should be able to color customize her/his market U/I just like the user can do currently with the "main" U/I.
19. Implement the classic U/I "string search" functionality
20. Give Temp recipes their own tab with the left-pane expansion and add level ranges to their descriptions.
21. There should also be no "invisible" search settings. For example, if you search a specific recipe, then edit the search bar and search again, you will still be searching recipes only, even though you just entered text, so there must be some kind of invisible recipes setting. This would apply for all types of items.
Repeat Offenders
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| 5. Under "Recipes", move the "Other" category back to the top of the listing as opposed to alphabetizing it within the entire recipes listing as it is now. The idea here is that the most frequently transacted recipes (i.e., Commons) should be quickly and easily accessible. (High) |
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| 20. Give Temp recipes their own tab with the left-pane expansion and add level ranges to their descriptions. |
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
been messing around with it a little and it's pretty bad.
literally the only thing good about it is the salvage auto-find, everything else is a big step back from the old interface, which was pretty crummy itself.
oh well, hopefully someone will eventually do something about it.
besides make it worse, I mean.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I'm not a huge market user... I buy standard IO recipes, crafted enhancements and salvage... and sell salvage and profitable recipes when I get them...
I don't particularly care for the UI in its current state. I am very hopeful that major improvements are coming soon...
However, with all things considered (Including the stacks of 10 for enhancements now)... I'd say it seems to be somewhat of a wash for me, Old UI vs New UI.
I don't say this against all the feedback in here. I really agree with most everything I've seen from the posters in here.
I'm just saying that, with the way that I use it, I don't hate it any more than I did the previous one.
It is close though... The vertical arrangement at the bottom pushes me closer to really hating it... And the way it puts the newest item at the bottom of that is pretty infuriating, heh... So, I like the list, Kitteh, thanks 
All that said... You don't want "improvements" to be a wash, really... You'd like it to be an improvement, hehe.
I'm hopeful that fixes are coming quickly...
<.<
>.>
I'm hoping I'm hopeful of that, at least.
In the mean time... I can use this thing as is... I think...
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Guys, seriously...
I dreamed the old UI returned.
Been playing for over 5 years and never dreamed about any aspect of the game.
I'm not even a big market user. I'd mainly just sell what dropped. Never broke 100 million on any toon etc. etc.
But somehow. I woke up this morning and had the vague impression that I was overjoyed at the return of the side to side scroll...
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
*raises hand*
Hi, I'm Medic Tai. I...I never come to threads like this, but I've had this problem for a few weeks now. As much as I try, I'm not getting used to the new interface. I've tried spending time with it, sold things, bought things, even STORED things.
But it's not the same. I take twice as long to do everything. Sometimes, I'm not even sure which tab I should be using, or how many items of a multiple bid have been bought or sold at a glance. Does this mean it's, how do you say, 'unintuitive?' Or should the UI have the ability to make me feel dumb? Am I the one giving it permission to make me feel this way? I'm not sure.
I was excited when I first heard about the makeover. So many new features, so many new options. But when it finally arrived, it wasn't quite what I expected. I can see how much it has going for it under the hood, but I'll admit, I'm a shallow person. Looks matter to me, and what was once something I looked forward to accessing on every single alt has become work, a chore. Shouldn't it be easier than this?
I'm going to give it more time. It's the least I can do. After all, I don't really have much of a choice, do I? Nice to see you all, maybe we can work through this together.
Tai
"You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself one."
� James A. Froude (1818-1894)
Wow you step away from the game for a few months to focus on school and come back to this. My 2.2 cents is I dont like it. I find it clunky and annoying and have to spend way more time at the Market than I used to.
High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!
What I'm wondering now is do we need to learn to live with it or what?
I'm finding it more of a pain to use and just not even bothering at the moment.
When I get a valuable drop like Karma +KB I'll pop it on but otherwise I'm selling everything at vendors and I've stopped even thinking about
IOing my 50's.
So, what I'm wondering is, are the Devs aware of the discord? Are there plans to change the UI to make it more intuitive sometime down the line
OR Do we just need to suck it up and adapt?
Personally I'm hoping it gets improved before GR hits.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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The problem is that most every change the devs make engenders this kind of reaction from some segment of the player base. It's impossible for them to distinguish from forum postings what the real opinion of the majority of players is.|
Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
So, what I'm wondering is, are the Devs aware of the discord? Are there plans to change the UI to make it more intuitive sometime down the line
OR Do we just need to suck it up and adapt? |
I, for example, see a few areas where they should improve the market interface (make some things less automatic, while making others more so), but otherwise it just works for me. The previous system had its own warts, and the new one has many improvements that I definitely like (alphabetic sorting, looking up salvage for recipes, single-button click to find the bidding history for an item I've got stored, etc.). And probably the most important issue was the performance (though that never affected me).
When they nerfed regen scrappers there was howling, when they nerfed energy melee there was howling, when they changed PvP there was howling and every time they utter the words "Mission Architect" a thousand wolves descend upon Paragon Studios and sit outside their windows at night baying at the moon.
There is probably a money and time budget for changes to the market, and when that budget was/is reached they will stop changing the market. They will establish some metric -- say, total market volume relative to the number of contact hours -- and if that is comparable to the pre-I17 measurement, they will surmise that the market is functioning adequately. A review will be scheduled for some point in the future and in the meantime the devs will move on to other projects.
In other words, we need to suck it up and stop whining. Concentrate on having them fix the top five real problems and stop picking nits. We shouldn't chase too many cats up the tree and waste the devs' time trying to get them all down.
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No, I'm going to keep whining. Whining, to me, is a threat of "I'm going to stop paying". Make the market less obnoxious or you will stop getting my money. That's how transactions work: One side gets something from the other. In this case it's the Devs give me stuff I want and I give them my money.|
Originally Posted by Rodion
The problem is that most every change the devs make engenders this kind of reaction from some segment of the player base. It's impossible for them to distinguish from forum postings what the real opinion of the majority of players is.
I, for example, see a few areas where they should improve the market interface (make some things less automatic, while making others more so), but otherwise it just works for me. The previous system had its own warts, and the new one has many improvements that I definitely like (alphabetic sorting, looking up salvage for recipes, single-button click to find the bidding history for an item I've got stored, etc.). And probably the most important issue was the performance (though that never affected me). When they nerfed regen scrappers there was howling, when they nerfed energy melee there was howling, when they changed PvP there was howling and every time they utter the words "Mission Architect" a thousand wolves descend upon Paragon Studios and sit outside their windows at night baying at the moon. There is probably a money and time budget for changes to the market, and when that budget was/is reached they will stop changing the market. They will establish some metric -- say, total market volume relative to the number of contact hours -- and if that is comparable to the pre-I17 measurement, they will surmise that the market is functioning adequately. A review will be scheduled for some point in the future and in the meantime the devs will move on to other projects. In other words, we need to suck it up and stop whining. Concentrate on having them fix the top five real problems and stop picking nits. We shouldn't chase too many cats up the tree and waste the devs' time trying to get them all down. |
There's not some time/usefulness measure to decisions they make on what's implemented in CoH. There's a "will this change make us money" measuring stick. These changes are awfully close to having me fall, again, on the "not getting my money" side.
Fortunately for the devs, I hadn't had my Fallout Fix in a long time. Right now I delete most of my stuff or simply ignore the red "Recipes" "Salvage" "Enhancement" full notifications. I'd rather make nothing then deal with the market.
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If by "down the line" you mean a few years from now, there's a chance that may happen. Seems that unpopular changes go through despite negative feedback from the players, and then those new "features" are largely neglected.
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
So, what I'm wondering is, are the Devs aware of the discord? Are there plans to change the UI to make it more intuitive sometime down the line
OR Do we just need to suck it up and adapt? |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Well, let's hope, for the sake of things, that in this case they make an exception. |
Originally Posted by macskull
If by "down the line" you mean a few years from now, there's a chance that may happen. Seems that unpopular changes go through despite negative feedback from the players, and then those new "features" are largely neglected.
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Yes, it will likely take manpower to 'fix' things since it seems really unlikely they'll revert to the old market system, but considering that I have yet to meet someone who actually 'likes' the new market, let's hope they do so.
Please, please, do so. This thread grows daily and I know someone there is reading it.
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I've been playing for years, but as you can tell I rarely post on the forums. But, I'm going to add my voice here and express my dislike of the new interface.
I literally groan now when my recipe/salvage inventory fills up and it's time to visit Wents; even though I know that I'll be making money by doing so. The new interface has too much Dr Seuss/Rube Goldberg for my tastes.
I really miss being able to see at a glance the status of all of my slots. The old horizontal display was great for that. I can see how some of the pop up messages might be useful for some people, but if we turn off those messages, I think that they should remain turned off across the account for all subsequent visits to the market.
In trying to think of something that I like about the new interface, I like the new sorting of the recipes and enhancements.
Overall though, after messing with it for a couple weeks, I'd prefer the old market interface.
more fussing with the interface and I can now categorically say the ONLY good things about it are autocomplete (which I understand some folk don't like, but for me it's handy), the 'salvage' button on recipes and the fact that it doesn't pre-load everything on earth when you open the window.
Otherwise it's an absolute disaster even by the low standards of CoH. It makes everything other than buying salvage for a specific recipe more tedious and opaque. Initially it seemed the different tabs would make it easier to see what you were doing, instead they just complicate was used to be a straightforward process.
A debacle on all levels.
The fact that it (inadvertently?) funnels everyone toward crafted IOs combined with the (only) convenient feature of auto searching salvage means I've been crafting anything even halfway good and making a killing. But I much prefer my old system of listing recipes, constantly running to the base & zoning to craft stuff is kinda boring even if it does make me more inf.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
As in "I've got another slot trying to sell 3 Thorn Tree Vines at a different price," yes as well!
Which of those is causing the problem? Should I just eat the (inconsequential) Market fee and consolidate those eight at one price? If I do that, I'll obviously gain a useable slot. But if I get the mysteriously unavailable slot back too, that's more than worth the effort!
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04