Hating the new market interface so far...
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2010-05-04 18:46 in The Market and Inventions
I suspect the new interface is keeping people away. Prices redside of the stuff I frequent seem to be steadily going down (Respec recipes 77M?!1?) while they sit on the market for even longer.
Increase in supply from more people playing redside due to the new MM set, followed by a decrease in people buying because they arent comfortable with the interface. Thats my hypothesis at least...
Im dealing with the UI relatively well. I really enjoy the insta salvage feature but dislike the tabs in general.
Quote:
I would like this too. Even if it's not dynamic (like a slide bar), but rather we could select discrete values like 100K, 500K, 1M or 5M (via radio buttons, for example), I'd be happy with such a feature.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
2) Let us set our own bar as to when a market fee is "too high". I'd prolly set mine at 5M. So if I'm listing anything for 100M or higher, I'd damn well mean it.
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Repeat Offenders
Nothing I can really add to what's already been said, but I have to agree with the consensus that this new, "improved" market UI is a huge step backwards in usability.
While I haven't YET been bitten by the persistent listing price "feature" I've come too close on several occasions... this is something that MUST go as it WILL constantly cost players large amounts of inf due to mistakes. Just because I'm buying a Touch of Death recipe for 8 million doesn't mean I want to buy that Kinetic Weapon for 8 million!
Right now I have 3 characters who are in the process of acquiring IO builds, and the new market is making me NOT want to bother with them... I've been only playing my established characters so I don't have to mess with the new market.
This thing is poorly designed, poorly implemented and a considerable step backwards in usability. I really hate using the market now; it's really approaching the point of not being worth the trouble. Most items I'm just dumping now as it's too much trouble to list them.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
been doing some more 'testing', no marketeering just buying purples and laying them away for respecs.
the more stuff I buy, the more I hate the persistent pricing 'feature'. It hasn't bitten me yet but I came close last night when I made the mistake of stocking up on salvage before bed.
I prefer inf sinks to be based on player choice, not bad design aimed at generating 'mistakes'.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
There may be examples of items doing crazy things due to the new UI. Respec Recipes may be affected in some amount by the new UI.|
Originally Posted by Frogfather
I suspect the new interface is keeping people away. Prices redside of the stuff I frequent seem to be steadily going down (Respec recipes 77M?!1?) while they sit on the market for even longer.
Increase in supply from more people playing redside due to the new MM set, followed by a decrease in people buying because they arent comfortable with the interface. Thats my hypothesis at least... Im dealing with the UI relatively well. I really enjoy the insta salvage feature but dislike the tabs in general. |
However, Respec Recipes prices regularly and predictably perform as they are doing so now. New Issues frequently bring freespecs. Also, Issues usually cause players to roll new characters which have however many Vetspecs that person has, access to two builds, and access to the three respec trials. Prices on Respec Recipes usually plummet immediately after a release of a new Issue and are at their peak around Open Beta for the following Issue. Respecs may be affected by the new UI, but the major factor is likely the new Issue.
Sidenote: I believe at least one forum frequenter alludes that my description of what will occur to Respec Recipes causes what happens to occur: that I am making self-fulfilling prophecy. So, personally, I will believe it is my own divine hand reaching down from the seat beside War Witch to be the cause of Respec Recipe's current drop. In a week, maybe 3 or 4, the price will start to climb. Ceteris Paribus, that's my plan for my divine will. (Paragraph should be read tongue-in-cheek).
you can set your watch by the fluctuations in the price of respec recipes, there's no voodoo or divine pink intervention involved.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Either way, with it we are stuck with either a dangerous inf sink or an annoying timesink. I am going so slow and careful with the market any more.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
been doing some more 'testing', no marketeering just buying purples and laying them away for respecs.
the more stuff I buy, the more I hate the persistent pricing 'feature'. It hasn't bitten me yet but I came close last night when I made the mistake of stocking up on salvage before bed. I prefer inf sinks to be based on player choice, not bad design aimed at generating 'mistakes'. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Well, the more I use this interface, the less I'm liking it...
I'm finding myself just vendoring things that I would have listed previously.
It's simply not worth the hassle, and I'm not as altruistic as Fulmens 
I've managed to avoid getting bitten by the persistent price bug, but it seems
like more of a pending "when" problem than an "if" problem.
The one thing that might be good about the persistent price is when you are
selling a bunch of crafted IO's... That's handy...
However, I'm firmly of the mind that if the item being listed isn't *identical*
to the previous item, or if the "operation" changes (buying vs selling) that
price should Go Away.
Three things I'm really developing a pure hatred for though, are:
1> Being unable to close the detail for an item by clicking it again - Grrrr
2> That extremely irritating PoS pop-up box that tells you about all the
recipes the piece of salvage you're selling is used for - Yeah, I *know*
that already - That's why I Shut It OFF in options... Still, it keeps coming
back... (Yes, I've /bug(ged) the fact that you can't shut the *&#$^^ thing off)
3> Temporary Powers:
3a> Three recipes for each - using different ingredients presumably? This
would be *nice* if you could actually TELL which one uses which ingredients
before you buy - except that mouseover doesn't work on those... stupid.
3b> Pre I-17, I had some Etheral Shift recipes on-hand along with the
ingredients needed to craft them... Post I-17, I have recipes that I no longer
have ingredients for because it changed the recipes I had -- Thanks Guys ...
Maybe I'm just crabby today, but I'm totally missing the "benefits" of the
"new market" and it's UI...
On that note, I'm taking a valium and playing somebody else's game for awhile...
Cheers,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
No refinement to an existing system is going to pull in new players.
However, it may roll existing players over to reconsideration of their subscription--particularly if their playtime had already dwindled (after the butchery of PVP and Mission Architect in preceding issues/updates) to playing the "market game" to an hour a week or so.
The new interface tries my patience--it adds steps to any task undertaken. Adding the resettable vertical scroll tray at the bottom, which loses index position and scrolls back out of view with every action--that's the icing on the cake. Combined with the need to constantly inform the user of potential usage for every single recipe and salvage item--words fail.
I really do not care for the new interface, and would prefer the old one be reinstituted at the earliest possible opportunity--perhaps an emergency patch, say, tomorrow?
Some days I just wake up cranky. Today might be one of those days...
Quote:
This is exactly the situation I find myself in. After much deliberation, I have canceled both of my accounts, due to the current issues. I've played City of Heroes solid for two years. Not once during that time did anything cause me to consider canceling my subscription. Until now.|
Originally Posted by Netwyrm
However, it may roll existing players over to reconsideration of their subscription
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The market is a central part of the game, especially for those of us that regularly use the invention system. Between the poorly designed UI that forces extra work on us, and the bugs like pop-up warnings that can't be disabled & lag that causes the wrong items to be posted for sale, the frustration level is just too great. At latest count, I've lost a little over 150 million inf due to interface lag that was never there before. I'm afraid to try and sell or buy anything on the market. I've been advised by a GM that to avoid the interface lag I should close and re-open the market window for EVERY single transaction.
Hopefully the dev team will get these issues sorted out ASAP. If they don't, I think there is a significant risk of serious damage to the market's health. Until such time that they do, or until my current sub time runs out, I won't be putting anything up for sale on the market. Every drop is either going to be deleted, vendored, or if it's something good, crafted and dropped into storage.
Would be nice if we coudl get ANY redname feedback as to what their plans are on this. Personally, I really hate the new setup and would like to see it returned to it's previous incarnation. However, if they plan on going forward with the new version, It's be nice to see some recognition of areas that are in desperate need of refinement.
The new market is really killing my desire to play, currently.
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They may be per-character, but they come back any time you zone after setting them.
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Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
I believe those are 'per character'. I don't believe I've seen them twice on the same character after shutting them 'off'.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Yikes! So, there is issues with them. Hmm. :/
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
They may be per-character, but they come back any time you zone after setting them.
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Current Team Project: Pending
Quote:
I don't remember them ever reverting a game change wholesale once it's on the live servers, barring finding an exploit (CoP trial comes to mind). If they do get around to changing the interface again, I'd bet it likely won't happen for another year or two, because that's how things have worked around here since I13 or so.|
Originally Posted by Heartbreaker
Would be nice if we coudl get ANY redname feedback as to what their plans are on this. Personally, I really hate the new setup and would like to see it returned to it's previous incarnation. However, if they plan on going forward with the new version, It's be nice to see some recognition of areas that are in desperate need of refinement.
The new market is really killing my desire to play, currently. |
I haven't IOd any characters since I17 went live because I'm incredibly frustrated by the market interface - I've had to completely re-learn how to search for things and after three years of doing it the old way that's not something I'm especially willing to do. Hell, I haven't even been setting up my PvP IO farms the last few weeks, and I used to do that religiously. I don't remember the last time I logged on and did something other than stand around and talk in globals for a while before getting bored and logging.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Another big negative vote.
I've accidentally bid on and bought multiple copies of stuff several times.
Pet hates:
Cursor changes to the arrows that allow you to move the UI around, but they still function if you accidentally happen to be near a button at the time.
Less slots on screen at a time.
If moving salvage into WWs (or deleting it), the warning for useful salvage being impossible to turn off once and for all with one button/option. It appears it has to be done separately for every character for every salvage piece.
Having to sort salvage every time, it should remember how you sorted it last time.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
I'm not a fan of the way the interface behaves. I want my searches to be limited to whatever category I currently have selected. I want items newly placed into WW/BM to appear at the top of the list. I don't want the last entered price to persist. I want to be able to hit backspace in the search field without experiencing MASSIVE performance loss. I want the sliders for bid number selection to return. I want the old level dropdown lists to return. I want the pre-I17 inventory display to return (keep the tabs though).
Am I still using the market in spite of these problems? Yes. I still wanna buy and sell stuff. I just wish I could have a more pleasant experience doing so.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
I'm afraid I have to add my name to those disliking the new interface. I've just spent the last hour in buying recipes and salvage to make some enhancements and it felt like it took me three times as many clicks to do anything.
And I really miss that big green "bought" sign. In this one you have to look closely to even see if the item is sold or not.
A big two thumbs down from me.
Whats even more frustrating for me is;
I'd finally gotten my RL buddy to start dabbing in the market.
He'd been afraid of it for so long, not wanting to bother and not being a
min/max player.
I finally convince him when he gets a drop worth around 10 million.
After a week or so of using it he really started to like it.
Half the time I'd log in he'd be standing there doing various tasks.
Now, well, now he won't even bother. He said it's like learning to drive a car and then being given a submarine.... without water....
Le Sigh.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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I have to say this reads like my feelings in general about the usefulness of the Black Market to get the IOs I want for years.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
This is exactly the situation I find myself in. After much deliberation, I have canceled both of my accounts, due to the current issues. I've played City of Heroes solid for two years. Not once during that time did anything cause me to consider canceling my subscription. Until now.
The market is a central part of the game, especially for those of us that regularly use the invention system. Between the poorly designed UI that forces extra work on us, and the bugs like pop-up warnings that can't be disabled & lag that causes the wrong items to be posted for sale, the frustration level is just too great. At latest count, I've lost a little over 150 million inf due to interface lag that was never there before. I'm afraid to try and sell or buy anything on the market. I've been advised by a GM that to avoid the interface lag I should close and re-open the market window for EVERY single transaction. Hopefully the dev team will get these issues sorted out ASAP. If they don't, I think there is a significant risk of serious damage to the market's health. Until such time that they do, or until my current sub time runs out, I won't be putting anything up for sale on the market. Every drop is either going to be deleted, vendored, or if it's something good, crafted and dropped into storage. |
I didn't quit the game over it and I won't but the disappointment is the same.
And looking at your last paragraph it completely describes my Black Market feelings a few years ago before the Black Market got worse as player population/usage of it has declined. I have no hope that your frustrations will be resolved any quicker than mine were then as I still wait for it years later.
If I were of our tinfoil hat brigade I would believe the devs did tickets and merits and the new UI to kill the markets.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
This is exactly the situation I find myself in. After much deliberation, I have canceled both of my accounts, due to the current issues. I've played City of Heroes solid for two years. Not once during that time did anything cause me to consider canceling my subscription. Until now.
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Its very sad to see you go. For those of you that don't know Panzer, he is the founder of a top 100 sg on Protector and is one of our most helpful and personable players. He is exactly the kind of person that makes this game such fun. I can only hope the developers take a good look at what they have built and make the needed changes quickly. Until that time take care and HAVE FUN !!!
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Just a question how long after you necroed your thread on the rising price of respec recipes did you sell your supply ? |
Originally Posted by Smurphy
Sidenote: I believe at least one forum frequenter alludes that my description of what will occur to Respec Recipes causes what happens to occur: that I am making self-fulfilling prophecy. So, personally, I will believe it is my own divine hand reaching down from the seat beside War Witch to be the cause of Respec Recipe's current drop. In a week, maybe 3 or 4, the price will start to climb. Ceteris Paribus, that's my plan for my divine will. (Paragraph should be read tongue-in-cheek). |
Or were you caught holding during the current collapse ?
Seriously I read this thread, and I see people saying that they can't play because of the new market interface and its what is causing them to leave the game ? and people accuse me of hyperbole ?
The old interface had problems, the new interface has different problems. The only real problem I see is that the developers don't seem to address the issues in an incremental way. Rather than trying to fix small issues, they went for sweeping changes that were certain to create new issues.
There is one piece on that is just wrong though. What is with the old search crashing the system and creating giant amounts of lag ? We are talking about a relatively small number of names (<10,000) here.
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I suspect the people that complained about this had systems with 1GB of RAM or less. The desktops that I run the game on have 2GB or more, and never had any noticeable response lag. But when I loaded it onto my laptop with only 1GB, opening the market window, especially on red side, might result in a disconnect as the machine was busy swapping to accommodate the data influx. These may be the same people that are "slow loaders" when zoning or entering missions. Even before ultra-mode, the game seems to need a 1.5GB to 2GB machine for smooth sailing.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There is one piece on that is just wrong though. What is with the old search crashing the system and creating giant amounts of lag ? We are talking about a relatively small number of names (<10,000) here.
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10,000 is a small number of names, but it's a pretty large number of images. I'm happy to see the performance issues from the old interface go, but I'm disappointed that the developers saw this as an opportunity to fix many things that were not broken.
@SPTrashcan
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Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Putting in my 2 cents because the Devs have to be aware of this thread.
As a casual but certainly active user of the old market, this new UI has seriously kept me away from it. I log in to play this game and usually hop on the market for the last 10-15mins before I log off. As it stands right now, I don't have the patience to relearn a new Auction House.
2 thumbs way down folks... This is the first negative thing I've said about this game in 4+ yrs. I love the game, I know the devs love it and are working hard, but this was a huge step back.
I will put in the required effort to learn the new market but here's to me hoping that it becomes more intuitive...
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