Real Talk


Chase_Arcanum

 

Posted

Was it really worth releasing i17 with this many bugs that were reported in beta just so it could be timed with the anniversary?

Sure it´s a new issue and there are things going to be broken but a lot of the stuff was known and not dealt with.

Some things were stealth added and since noone knew about them they couldn't test them.

What's up with that?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror1 View Post
Was it really worth releasing i17 with this many bugs that were reported in beta just so it could be timed with the anniversary?

Sure it´s a new issue and there are things going to be broken but a lot of the stuff was known and not dealt with.

Some things were stealth added and since noone knew about them they couldn't test them.

What's up with that?
The only thing "up" with this is that people have complained about the exact same things you did after pretty much every Issue since the first Issue back in 2004. I'm not saying the way the Devs do things is right or wrong. I'm just saying there's not much point to getting too upset by all this. The bigger bugs will eventually get fixed and life will continue. *shrugs*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
The only thing "up" with this is that people have complained about the exact same things you did after pretty much every Issue since the first Issue back in 2004. I'm not saying the way the Devs do things is right or wrong. I'm just saying there's not much point to getting too upset by all this. The bigger bugs will eventually get fixed and life will continue. *shrugs*
What about all the stealth changes that have not been properly tested since noone was aware of them?
Also I said i knew there would be bugs but leaving them after release even if they have been reported is in my opinion pretty ugly.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror1 View Post
What about all the stealth changes that have not been properly tested since noone was aware of them?
Also I said i knew there would be bugs but leaving them after release even if they have been reported is in my opinion pretty ugly.
Which "stealth changes" would those be?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror1 View Post
Sure it´s a new issue and there are things going to be broken but a lot of the stuff was known and not dealt with.
Of course; if they waited until all the bugs were fixed we'd probably still be waiting for Issue 17 in July. The standard for release isn't "no bugs"; it's "a tolerable level of bugs". For example, I notice they still haven't fixed the liquid filled tubes in Arachnos bases, which are filled with blue not red stuff; but that's hardly game breaking so they aren't going to delay release for things like that. No doubt in a week or three there'll be another patch full of bugfixes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightfoot View Post
Which "stealth changes" would those be?
The only two I know of are changing Mastermind caltrops to only take targeted AoE IO sets instead of those and PBAoE sets; and they removed the timer from the last mission in the Spy Hunt arc. The latter being an exploit fix apparently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
Every issue release is the buggiest issue release someone has ever seen.
Yup. Every time a new Issue comes up I hear moans and groans about how incredibly buggy it is and how the game is doomed, dooomed because of it.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
For example, I notice they still haven't fixed the liquid filled tubes in Arachnos bases, which are filled with blue not red stuff
Wait, that's a bug? No! Don't fix that! It looks a lot better like that. It throws in a little colour in what is otherwise a basically monochromatic, boring tileset. Seriously, look at the tileset and tell me if you see anything that isn't a shade of red or a shade of grey. The blue-filled tanks surprised me VERY pleasantly when I saw them, because they brought the tileset to life.

See, normally my eyes just gloss over Arachnos architecture because it's just an incomprehensible mish-mash of random-seeming devices that I cannot identify at all. It's like looking for a face on the surface of the moon - even if it's there, you can't really see it. Having something that catches my eye, that I can instantly recognise (well, as "blue vats," at any rate) and that I can use as a visual point of reference in that sea of red and black is a plus, in my book.

The red vats were cool, but really - there's so much red in that tileset I usually just run by the things without even realising they are there. These stopped me in my tracks and made me look. For the first time in a long while, I actually looked at the Arachnos tileset and I saw more than just random polygons. Seriously, that tileset looks like someone sneezed grates and pipes onto a 3D modelling programme and they decided to make a level out of it. A little colour goes a long way to hide this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Wait, that's a bug? No! Don't fix that! It looks a lot better like that. It throws in a little colour in what is otherwise a basically monochromatic, boring tileset. Seriously, look at the tileset and tell me if you see anything that isn't a shade of red or a shade of grey. The blue-filled tanks surprised me VERY pleasantly when I saw them, because they brought the tileset to life.
I can certainly see that argument; some of them looked neat bug or not. However, something like this needs fixing:


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror1 View Post
Was it really worth releasing i17 with this many bugs that were reported in beta just so it could be timed with the anniversary?

Sure it´s a new issue and there are things going to be broken but a lot of the stuff was known and not dealt with.

Some things were stealth added and since noone knew about them they couldn't test them.

What's up with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror1 View Post
What about all the stealth changes that have not been properly tested since noone was aware of them?
Also I said i knew there would be bugs but leaving them after release even if they have been reported is in my opinion pretty ugly.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
I can certainly see that argument; some of them looked neat bug or not. However, something like this needs fixing:

Yeah, those I spotted, but I thought it was my video card glitching out. Huh... Well, I guess the solution is to make them blue, too, not to make the blue ones red


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Yeah, those I spotted, but I thought it was my video card glitching out. Huh... Well, I guess the solution is to make them blue, too, not to make the blue ones red
Yeah, I thought the blue change was intentional, until I looked closer and saw the glitching...which I hope is fixed but left blue, too. Blue DOES look better in those bases. Red and black is great, dont get me wrong...so long as its accented by a third colour. Basic art principle, folks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Yeah, I thought the blue change was intentional, until I looked closer and saw the glitching...which I hope is fixed but left blue, too. Blue DOES look better in those bases. Red and black is great, dont get me wrong...so long as its accented by a third colour. Basic art principle, folks
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Posted

Would it KILL the guy to throw in a bit of colour in his repertoire? I mean, seriously, he's all black and red and black and red. Wolf Spiders are mostly black, occasionally with red insignias or details, Mu Mystics are predominantly red, with the occasional black tint, Seers of the Fortunata are all read with a hint of purple here and there which gets lost, Night Widows are predominantly black, with a bit of grey, Arachnobots ARE black the lot of them, though they do have the odd blue power effect, Arachnos Drones are all black with red blinking lights, the Tarantula are mostly black though their fire and toxins have some colour to them, but the Mistresses and Queens just have more red markings, Crab Spiders are all black and Bane Spiders are almost all black and red. I mean seriously. I'm starting to lose my colour perception from all of that monochrome.

See, I complain about the Isles being all white and black and brow, but at least they have COLOUR to them. Blue water here, green grass there, the neon lights of Jackpot, the colourful circus of the Carnival of Shadows, the awful pimp suits of the Family. It's not a lot, but it's THERE. And again, I'm not asking for the dude to go out and paint flowers on brick walls. But would it really hurt if his soldiers' uniforms or his architecture were a little less Saturday morning cartoon villain. What, does Lord Recluse have a red light filter in his helmet or something?

Seriously, leave those blue. They make Arachnos maps a LOT more interesting and a LOT less sterile (ironic with their cluttered design).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

I resent the implication that being negative is "real talk". I mean, you're entitled to your opinion and back it up and all, but the thread title seems to imply that your negativity gives your post more merit, and that don't sit right with me.

As far as bugs: All expansions will have them. There's no way to test them all. And by no way, I mean almost literally. Ranging from tiny things that the developers would never imagine*, to things they couldn't test**, to things they couldn't fix in a reasonable amount of time***, things have to be let go. It's a matter of business and marketing. They could release one slightly better expansion with three or four more months of testing, or they could release it now and get all the publicity of saying that the game updated on its Sixth Anniversary. And frankly, I don't begrudge their choosing the second option.

Sure, it was imperfect, but there is a judgement call as to how long they can keep players interested. They felt that April 28th was the farthest they could push testing and still keep player interest. If it had gone on longer, there's the possibility people would have complained. They made their choice, and they will clean up the mess in a future patch.

But the mess is more of a slurpee on the floor and less like a nuclear reactor left unchecked. I approve heartily.

~m~

* When I go to Steel Canyon and stand on the lower east side and then scratch my left arm pit with celery, the game lags a lot!

** It's implausible to ask a developer to be familiar with virtually all potential combinations of video cards, computer set ups, operating systems, and personal settings on a computer that would have to fall in place for certain graphical issues.

*** If that costume piece clips horribly, and fixing it would delay the game another week... just ship the costume piece now with a warning, I say. Not enough people will really care.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Would it KILL the guy to throw in a bit of colour in his repertoire? I mean, seriously, he's all black and red and black and red. [...] Tarantula are mostly black though their fire and toxins have some colour to them, but the Mistresses and Queens just have more red markings [...]
You're the first person I've met who's green-black colorblind.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Crab Spiders are all black
They ain't, actually;



Slightly low res, but they are a sort of bluey-grey-ish colour. I guess to reflect Makos colour somewhat.

Doesn't mean I like it/ I think Crab Spider armour is kinda meh in NPC colours, and the lack of a belt makes them look...odd. Now, this chappy;



looks much better in my opinion.
...Yes, yes Krimzon Commander is mine. Shush

But I like the new fittings in the bases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
Of course; if they waited until all the bugs were fixed we'd probably still be waiting for Issue 17 in July.
Are you kidding? If the standard was "no bugs at all" we'd still be waiting for I5.


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A: You crash into another one.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms View Post
Are you kidding? If the standard was "no bugs at all" we'd still be waiting for I5.
I think you are being very generous with issue number in that scenario. Since no program can or ever will be bug free. we would still be waiting for I0.

--Rad


/whereami:

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
They ain't, actually;



Slightly low res, but they are a sort of bluey-grey-ish colour. I guess to reflect Makos colour somewhat.

Doesn't mean I like it/ I think Crab Spider armour is kinda meh in NPC colours, and the lack of a belt makes them look...odd. Now, this chappy;



looks much better in my opinion.
...Yes, yes Krimzon Commander is mine. Shush

But I like the new fittings in the bases.
heh, someone just gave me a horrible idea, expect to see it when i get home from work. chase arcanum should already be shivering.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Guys, you're posting pictures taken with the lowest possible quality textures and the shaders seemingly completely turned off. That actually has a profound effect on what colour things appear to be in actual practice. Remember the old "Black Helicopter Line is white!" argument from a couple of years back? Well, the Black Helicoters have always been black, but because some people were playing with their shader detail set to negative ten, the textures appeared odd and bleached.

I'll have to recheck Crab Spiders and the Tarantula, but this is NOT how they show up on my screen.

*edit*
OK, I admit, they're not EXACTLY black. Crab Spiders are a dark, greyish teal and Tarantula are a dark, greyish petrol. Drones also seem to have a dark, greyish lavender tinge. But seriously. Look at this and tell me if it couldn't as well be. This is a good cross-section of what I spend 50 levels looking at. Malta I can live with. They only exist for the last 10, but this colour scheme is basically ALL I'm going to see from level 1 breaking out of Breakout to level 50 finishing up Time After Time. Ugh!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Chief Scientist: "Lord Recluse, we've developed a liquid which can turn an ordinary Arachnos soldier into a superhuman powerhouse, and totally under your control! Simply by immersing our normal soldiers in this liquid, we will soon have an army that can easily conquer the combined armies of every country on earth!"

Lord Recluse: "Hahahahaha! Yes! Start immediately! But before you do, make sure the liquid is red."

Chief Scientist: "I'm sorry sir? Did you say make the liquid red? The liquid is blue because of the exact mix of ingredients."

Lord Recluse: "No, no... Maybe you don't understand. The liquid to create my unstoppable army MUST be red. So, do that and you can continue with the unstoppable soldier program."

Chief Scientist: "Lord Recluse, I must protest. Trying to make the liquid red is preposterous and will set us back months - even if it works! I mean you've got to -" *SNAP*

Lord Recluse: "You! Over there! By the test tubes! Do you understand what I want?"

New Chief Scientist: "My Lord needs a consistent color scheme!"

Lord Recluse: "Eeeeeexcellent..."


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Posted

If all else fails, just wrap the test tubes in red cellophane


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
heh, someone just gave me a horrible idea, expect to see it when i get home from work. chase arcanum should already be shivering.
I sense a disturbance in the force....


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
What, does Lord Recluse have a red light filter in his helmet or something?
Maybe when his eyes turned red he went color-blind?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Would it KILL the guy to throw in a bit of colour in his repertoire? I mean, seriously, he's all black and red and black and red. What, does Lord Recluse have a red light filter in his helmet or something?
Good is blue, Evil is red. This is attributed to Good being higher on the electromagnetic spectrum than Evil.




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