OMG! Master of Lady Grey TF!

The level of poor sportsmanship is rooted in the players, not the circumstance. Are you honestly trying to convince people here that, given a team of level-headed, happy-go-lucky players, a Master run will eventually turn them into the people you seem to eternally get stuck running Master runs with?

Your experiences don't mesh with mine. Our Master runs have been rather lovely honestly. Sure, we fail. So what? We finish the job, think about where we goofed up, and try again the next week. If we win, WOOT!

If we can have a grand old time with each other, but your groups can't, then the fault isn't with the Master design, because it would be a universal (or near enough) issue. The fault would therefore lie with the people. That's why I'm inviting you to check it out elsewhere. And despite your little drama explosion (you know, where you went NEVAR in two inch letters), I wasn't suggesting that you transfer to get a badge; I suggested that you transfer to see a group of normal people work hard to get Master and still have a good time with it. That's what positive people do: Invite others to participate positively.

So, on a field of equals, I say bring on the Master runs. You're certainly not obligated to play them. Some of us just enjoy them, and win more often than not (...sometimes).

Not an elitist thing: Just honesty. Things are not as bad as you make them to be.

@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE

Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!

And apparently it's okay to smear people with false accusations.... oh, wait, that's actually being a jerk. Never mind.

Seriously. I was on a MoITF and we were in the last mission and had already smacked down Romulus and fuzzies. We were getting the last 15 or 20 Cimerorans and someone got careless and died. No recriminations and multiple people saying, "Don't worry about it."

I think I need a translation of this sentence. It doesn't make sense.

I've had good teams, I've had lousy teams, and teams in the middle. I know at least one player that went from "I want to help" to "I am never running another Master STF again". Rather heatedly, I might add.

Well, we agree on something at least.

I didn't say it was a universal issue. I seldom make absolute comments because I'm old enough to know better. The exceptions tend to be against very foolish ideas or when I've observed the behaviour in question. I did say that the system as designed "from my point of view, they promote..." the bad behaviour.

I might take you up on the offer sometime, I do have characters spread out over all the US servers. But I am unlikely to do server transfers due to several factors (cash, SG commitments, the ability to keep a character's name, etc.).

Well, it is nice to know that how much I feel about that subject was crystal clear.

I've tried that.

Maybe, but they are also not as rosy as you make them out to be either. The truth is likely that the master runs are in between and depend on several factors that neither of us have control over.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Then report them. Harassment is against the EULA.

Am I missing something about the situation that's difficult? (GMs sitting on their hands and doing nothing after several reports would qualify as a "yes" to that question, but that's about it.)

P.S. PvP encourages the exact same behavior you describe, and it's a lot more pervasive. Guess PvP should be removed too.

The people in question have had a lot of conduct petitions against them (I've filed several myself), but nothing seems to be done about them. On the other hand some of them moved to Freedom... Something about PVP being better there.

Actually that is one of the reasons I don't PVP.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Fixed in the original, my bad. I type faster than I can think. (I was also doing a B'Tran run in STO at the time I wrote that, so I was a smidge distracted.)

I completely agree. Which is why I expressed my support of Master runs, to show that your experiences - tainted as they are by bad luck, bad people, bad whatever - aren't universal, and shouldn't be used as the only perception in determining "zomg Master runs bad". Someone had to bring a bit of optimism here after the OP's "hey, look, a new badge" and everyone went /cutself over it.

@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE

Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!

Since we're reposting from the closed forums, here's what I had to say about it:

This is not the fault of the reward (Mo badge) itself. I run every single STF/ITF/KTF with the parameters set to Mo badge, and I say from the beginning to everybody, "I set it that way in case we actually do get the reward; if we don't, no big deal". A lot of times we get the badge on teams that are not "ideal" by any means; but usually, if there's a bubbler/sonic/cold in the team, the chances of success are quite high.

As team leader, I tell people in advance several things when going for a specifically Mo attempt:

1) We're not restarting if someone dies. Particularly in the STF, if someone dies in the early missions, they'll die anyway in the last mission, so restarting with the same team makeup just leads to more failure. Anyone who wants to retry the badge can join me again with a different team; I run those TFs a lot.

2) If someone dies, no matter the reason (be it an accident or because they did something stupid), everybody is allowed to say "$name, you suck" once. After that, carry on as usual and complete the TF. No arguing; it's just a game, not the end of the world.

3) Don't tell other people how to play their characters. I have booted people that are on a blaster but keep yelling at the tank what he should do (this is common in the STF). Play your character, do a great job at it; everybody else knows their characters better than you do.(*)

4) For the love of all the cake in the universe, don't split from the team. Stay together; work together.

With those four "rules" in place, nearly all my Mo attempts have been fun and non-stressful. They have also been quite successful. I don't look at IOs or purples when forming a team; I know that if I get two of bubbler/sonic/cold, our defense will be so high that few things can touch us; add a good debuffer to the mix, and the chances of failure drop a lot.

The idea that only characters that are full of IOs or purples succeed in Mo runs is incorrect. The Mo badges do not promote any of the things you posted; it's all up to the team to engage in those, and especially the team leader, who, in my view, is in charge of making sure not just that the TF is a success, but that playing through it is fun, and not a frustrating chore.

(*) In that other thread, this point was disagreed with, by a player saying that "someone playing their first 'whatever AT' doesn't know the character as well as someone who has played it many times before." While that's true, I stand by this point: if you are not playing that AT at the moment, stay out of the hair of the person who is. They're here to have fun, not to take a beating because they aren't as experienced as you.

I disagree. It depends on several factors, but it all boils down to going in with the right mindset. The team leader is the one that has the most control over that. Put together a solid team, approach the task with the idea of having fun, and the experience will indeed be "rosy". Don't do the TF just for the badge, do it because you want to have a good team experience.

Comparison: a city gym starts a promotional program where those who can do 100 pushups get a "Master of Pushups" shirt. Two people decide to try it.

One goes because he wants to stay healthy, and knows that it takes time to build up strength and flexibility. He knows he can do the pushups if he follows the program; does proper warmup and core work. For the first couple of weeks it's hard, then suddenly he can do 50 in a row, then after a month, yay! He can do 100 pushups! "Master of Pushups" badge. Not only that, but because he knows what he's doing now, getting the "Master of Situps" and the "Master of Pullups" badges are easier. He's so proud of the achievement, he asks his friends and girlfriend to exercise together, because now that he's gone through it, he knows everybody can! He cheers them on, encourages them when they reach their point of failure over and over, makes no big deal if they tumble. His entire "team" will get the "Master" badges eventually, even those who never touched a gym before, and he's going to make sure they feel good about the whole process.

The other person goes to the gym because damn, it's only two weeks before summer starts! He doesn't want to look awful at the beach, but he doesn't really want to get in shape, so he just wants the shirt to look good. He "doesn't have time" for warming up, so he jumps straight into the pushups. They're hard, all his joints are complaining because they're not ready for this, so he curses and complains all the time. He takes longer rests between sets, which he uses to complain at how difficult pushups are. Other people in the gym (like our friend above) tells him that it's not so hard with the right technique and warm up, but he goes, "I shouldn't have to switch my technique or take time doing core work! All I want is the 100 pushups badge!" Fed up, he says, "screw Master of Pushups, I'll do Situps instead", and again without warming, they're even harder. He tries Pullups, and his entire body aches. So he quits the gym and goes around telling everybody that exercise is a waste of time and that the people telling him to warm up and work his core are elitist snobs.

The problem here is not that the gym created a "Master of Pushups" shirt. The second person had the wrong mindset: he put the reward before the journey. We see the same thing with the Master badges here; people want the badge now, and when their run fails, they get angry and rant at the universe. Of course an unexperienced character who's not done the TF enough times is probably going to have a hard time completing it; that's precisely why he needs encouragement! Just like warm up is vital to good exercise, a lot of failed runs pave the way to a good Masters run. You won't see a single coach in the world get angry at someone because they can't lift 200 pounds in their first week of exercise; if you get angry at someone because they died on a Masters run, you're a bad team leader, and need to leave the spot to someone who can motivate the team.

And I just know that someone is going to reply saying "What about someone who's lost an arm? Or is paralyzed? They can't ever get that shirt! Your entire comparison is flawed and you suck!" Well, none of the characters in City of Heroes have that problem. In this game, the character ("body") is perfectly capable to achieving the goal, it all depends on the player ("mind") to approach the task the right way.

I am, however, making fun of Leandro on GTalk right now for "Master of Pushups".

@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE

Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!

You're just jealous.

I really like this analogy too. Though it probably explains why I haven't ever bothered trying for the master badges

If I could find an image of a stereotypical plumber in drag with a bad pushup bra, that's what I was imagining when I heard master of pushups.

I believe I was on that last Masters attempt with said person, and I don't remember anyone saying anything bad about them o.O I also only joined to help them get the badge, I didn't care about getting it on any of my toons. I'd also be fine with running it again with them, mainly because we're friends :P

Just really not sure who you're talking about when you mention harassment.

this

also being one of the ones on the last 3 of those master runs, said person was in no way put down, made fun of, or harassed. disappointed? sure, its a very tedious badge to achieve but knowing many of the members that also ran in those specific task forces, the only reason we ran them was to get said person the badge.

also, as much as i don't like people who say this, but if you don't pvp don't talk about it because 90% of the people who do that don't pvp are wrong in what they say (not that i blame them for not wanting to know about a broken system that makes no sense but still)

Tam, you know I respect you as a player. I was deliberately vague to protect who (and who told me). I didn't say when or with who.

I know I got a verbal talking to by that mutual friend for joking with you all a few nights later. Apparently the friend felt it was a bit much that night. Maybe they are stressed and is overreacting a tiny bit. I don't know as I wasn't there and, like I said above, I was told this by a mutual friend.

I have it from two different sources that there was name calling involved. Maybe the person was overreacting, but on the flip side I don't think either of you can say with certainty about the conduct of others.

Maybe, as others have said above, that is the problem. Maybe it is time to try a different way. I'm willing to run weekly attempts (we continue till the TF end even if the challenge fails).

Well, I like to think that I've made it quite clear that I do not PVP...

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

another note to that, reichsman is also bugged too

Tell me about it, we tried to run the Master of Lady grey to see if it was active in game and when we got to Hami, we cleared the Yellows, cleared the Blue, and BLAAAAPPPHH!! Direct stop at a wall of Greens that could not be defeated.

We even tried taking our 2 blasters and filling up with tier 3 reds and damage cap themselves to see if we could do it. With both blasters at damage cap and the rest of the team whackiong away, we couldn't budge the health of a Green Mito.

So that ended that test run, we will have to wait until its fixed to see if the badge is active or not.

Just a FYI, the Master of Lady Grey will be a piece of cake, no pun intended on my behalf

A team of mine tried LGTF for grins and man are those greens broken. Almost makes one wish they didn't change the mitos so they couldn't be teleported/wormholed away from each other as that may be helpful against the greens. Or not.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Reichsman on redside or blue and what is the bug? If its red I'd bet the MM temp is broken again or else Reichsman is just overamped even more.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

to me. it would be nice if it was activated. i lub dem mo' badges