Implications of Side Switching
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2010-04-16 17:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
This has been discussed.
Corruptors and Defenders each fear the other will make them obsolete.
Brutes and Tanks each think they'll make the other obsolete.
Masterminds will continue to be powerful, and continue to not get on teams.
Khelds will insist they are FINE.
VEATs will be FINE.
Controllers will not be threatened by Dominators, but Blasters will be.
Scrappers will be scrappers.
And Stalkers will get no respect.
For economic reasons, Vigilante is the optimal choice. Storms gather around the already troubled villain market.
@SPTrashcan
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See, this is exactly my concern. Why not just make it "City of Vigilantes/Rogues" then?
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
For economic reasons, Vigilante is the optimal choice. Storms gather around the already troubled villain market. |
Except that Vigilantes and Rogues do not get access to what I would call both sides of the game. They can travel to the opposite city, yes, but they can only do additional Vigilante or Rogue missions there, AFAIK.
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I still hope there will be a reward for the "pure character"... The rare one that wont be going grey (Vigilante or Rogue), keeping thenselves whole Hero or Villain...
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Debuff Corruptors might actually get more respect. Not being expected to be TEH HEALRZ all the time on teams would come as a welcome relief to many Corruptors
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
This has been discussed.
Corruptors and Defenders each fear the other will make them obsolete. |
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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The devs have stated that they are going to do this. My guess is that there will be pros and cons to all the gradations. But it's all guesswork at this point... there are a lot of details the devs have not released yet.|
Originally Posted by KayJMM
I still hope there will be a reward for the "pure character"... The rare one that wont be going grey (Vigilante or Rogue), keeping thenselves whole Hero or Villain...
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Which is why all threads like this eventually degenerate... they're pointless in the long run after being discussed this much.
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It's been mentioned that Vigilantes and Rogues won't earn Prestige. If they stay with that model, that's a strong reason not to stay grey; in fact, doing so would likely get you kicked out of many SGs.
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In most games, rewards are given for experiencing the content. Why would a reward be given for refusing to do so? |
Originally Posted by KayJMM
I still hope there will be a reward for the "pure character"... The rare one that wont be going grey (Vigilante or Rogue), keeping thenselves whole Hero or Villain...
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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notat all, in many games there are choices and roles that characters can take(say going imperial or rebel in swg, or choosing one of the three home nations in ffXI, almost every kmmo has som e factional or naion membership that prevents some content and enables other content) that gate certain content and allow access to other content, i doubt this will be any different in execution. keep in mind we are not discussing someone who never switches or goes grey, merely one who goes to one of the polar extremes. I suspect(and hope) that there will be content to push your polarized moral bar positions that is as engaging as that which allows you go go freelance, otherwise i'd call it a missed opportunity to add an engaging dynamic to the game.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
In most games, rewards are given for experiencing the content. Why would a reward be given for refusing to do so?
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Not what I asked. Of course there are games that are factional. Hell almost all MMOs are. But I'm not aware of one where you get a reward for staying on one faction or the other (often it isn't a choice like here).|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
not at all, in many games there are choices and roles that characters can take(say going imperial or rebel in swg, or choosing one of the three home nations in ffXI, almost every kmmo has some factional or naion membership that prevents some content and enables other content) that gate certain content and allow access to other content, i doubt this will be any different in execution.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
...keep in mind we are not discussing someone who never switches or goes grey, merely one who goes to one of the polar extremes. I suspect(and hope) that there will be content to push your polarized moral bar positions that is as engaging as that which allows you go go freelance, otherwise i'd call it a missed opportunity to add an engaging dynamic to the game.
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Originally Posted by KayJMM
I still hope there will be a reward for the "pure character"... The rare one that wont be going grey (Vigilante or Rogue), keeping thenselves whole Hero or Villain...
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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They do get full access to both sides of the game. Every mission, every arc, every TF and SF, all trials, etc. The only thing that Rogues and Vigilantes do not have access to is the market from the opposite side... so Rogues can't use Wentworths and Vigilantes can't use the Black Market.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Except that Vigilantes and Rogues do not get access to what I would call both sides of the game. They can travel to the opposite city, yes, but they can only do additional Vigilante or Rogue missions there, AFAIK.
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As mentioned above, the devs have said there will be a reason to "stay true", but we have no details on that. My suspicion is that it will be insufficient to keep most people from going Vigilante.
Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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Probably... but I have a few toons that, no matter what, will remain pure... they are just that... no shades of grey to then...
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
They do get full access to both sides of the game. Every mission, every arc, every TF and SF, all trials, etc. The only thing that Rogues and Vigilantes do not have access to is the market from the opposite side... so Rogues can't use Wentworths and Vigilantes can't use the Black Market.
As mentioned above, the devs have said there will be a reason to "stay true", but we have no details on that. My suspicion is that it will be insufficient to keep most people from going Vigilante. |
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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Good thing then that the type of SG that would do that offer nothing of value to the vast majority of players then. If they're willing to kick people out over prestige, then it's a sure bet they aren't a helpful, social SG, nor are they letting people freely use the base storage. |
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
It's been mentioned that Vigilantes and Rogues won't earn Prestige. If they stay with that model, that's a strong reason not to stay grey; in fact, doing so would likely get you kicked out of many SGs.
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The only thing that the "OMG u must earn xxx prestige" type of SG ever offered was the use of teleporters, which were nothing but a mild convenience anyhow. With ith the Oro portal, you rarely even have a use for base teleporters, and if you happen to have the Pocket D or mission transporters you'll likely never even want to bother with them at all.
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I think that post is hilarious, wise, and true. |
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Corruptors and Defenders each fear the other will make them obsolete.
Brutes and Tanks each think they'll make the other obsolete. Masterminds will continue to be powerful, and continue to not get on teams. Khelds will insist they are FINE. VEATs will be FINE. Controllers will not be threatened by Dominators, but Blasters will be. Scrappers will be scrappers. And Stalkers will get no respect. |
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So that there is a reward for one particular forumite that we all know. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
In most games, rewards are given for experiencing the content. Why would a reward be given for refusing to do so?
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Same here.
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Originally Posted by KayJMM
Probably... but I have a few toons that, no matter what, will remain pure... they are just that... no shades of gray to then...
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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For concept and RP reasons, this will always be true. I have several characters that are either Goody Goody or Irredeemable myself. My point is that beside those examples, there is very little reason to keep to one side. Unless the devs knock our socks off with the "Staying True" incentive, I see a large migration of toons to the middle ground.
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Originally Posted by KayJMM
Probably... but I have a few toons that, no matter what, will remain pure... they are just that... no shades of grey to then...
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Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster
"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."
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see, i reread his post a few times to verify, but i dont read it like you are reading it. Im reading it as a hero character staying a hero character or a villain staying a villain. he makes no qualifiers of staying a hero or villain continually, nor staying exclusively a villain/hero, just staying a single faction player verses playing a character that can access content from either faction(which would appear to be the best option, given the amount of content available to a player of a vigilante/rogue). That is how i read it at least, kay, can you specify which take you meant? do you mean never switching, or just not going grey?
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Not what I asked. Of course there are games that are factional. Hell almost all MMOs are. But I'm not aware of one where you get a reward for staying on one faction or the other (often it isn't a choice like here).
Actually, that's EXACTLY what I was responding too. KayJMM wrote: |
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At Hero Con, it was said that they can't start them though - they can join teams doing them, but they can't start them.
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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
They do get full access to both sides of the game. Every mission, every arc, every TF and SF, all trials, etc.
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@Golden Girl
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Which actually makes sense. Folks that are just dipping their toes into the other side just won't have the contacts that a native would.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
At Hero Con, it was said that they can't start them though - they can join teams doing them, but they can't start them.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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And it's also a question of trust - for example, Statesman probably wouldn't trust a Rogue to lead his TF, and Recluse wouldn't trust a Vigilante to lead his SF.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Which actually makes sense. Folks that are just dipping their toes into the other side just won't have the contacts that a native would.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Okay... just to specify: |
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
see, i reread his post a few times to verify, but i dont read it like you are reading it. Im reading it as a hero character staying a hero character or a villain staying a villain. he makes no qualifiers of staying a hero or villain continually, nor staying exclusively a villain/hero, just staying a single faction player verses playing a character that can access content from either faction(which would appear to be the best option, given the amount of content available to a player of a vigilante/rogue). That is how i read it at least, kay, can you specify which take you meant? do you mean never switching, or just not going grey?
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I am talking of never ever touching a shade of grey.
Really pure and fanatical Hero/Villain.
A character that is so certain of its morality that he wont ever cross the line, nor even touch it. A paragon of its kind.
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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Maybe there will be rewards for doing potential Exemplary Hero/Villain content, perhaps?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
In most games, rewards are given for experiencing the content. Why would a reward be given for refusing to do so?
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Or more obviously - we know there will be "turning point" missions in GR. One path leads to the grey, one obviously must not. Both paths will certainly have rewards at the end.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
I for one, am looking forward to Going Rogue. However, a few caveats do come to mind when I consider the ramifications of being able to side switch.
1. I think that we might see a shift in the current AT structure when everyone has access to everything. I think that some ATs may fall a bit by the wayside. I suspect that Masterminds may get a nerf or two before all is said and done as well.
2. Will there be any reason to play as a Villain or Hero after Going Rogue? Becoming a Vigilante or Rogue will give a character access to both sides of the game. Doesn't seem like there's much incentive to play as strictly one faction or the other.
Any thoughts on the problems/benefits/fixes needed to make side switching fair for everyone?