How so, Venture? You mean that the rules don't go into effect until after someone has broken them?
Makes sense
>.>
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
Quote:
ERPvP?! Oh god... there goes my blissful obliviousness on the existence of that. |
Originally Posted by Makai_No_Falco
Someone makes a comment about ERPvP. So I ask "Isn't ERPvP just r**e?"
I got booted for that. Glad to know this is the year 1950. |
Reminds me of a stand-up routine though. The comedian was talking about wearing a cross as a sign of your faith in regards to Jesus and all that. Just imagine Jesus actually coming -back- and he sees all these people walking around with a reminder of the thing he was nailed to and died on. Be like giving a sniper rifle pendant to Jackie Kennedy.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Im sorry Venture but Its not that you had an opinion but how negitive and vocal you were about it. I have had to change many MotD's you have made that were just full of venom and snarkiness.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Eh, I was kicked from VU2010 last night for having an opinion.
If the channel is going to be run as a private fiefdom where everyone has to toe one person's party line then it's useless. |
VU has always been a strange channel but recently the attitude has become much less of a nice attitude. There is alot of people who feel its ok to just say anything in there or spam the channel. VU's general attitude comes from the sum of all the people in there. If prople come in there and treat it like a place to spit venom it infects the channel.
I would like to think most know me on VU as the more relaxed mod. Even I feel that we need to have some change in the channel.
Virtue
--Blazing Tiger-- 50 Invulrn/Fire Tank
<<Virtues Tankiest Kitty>>
Try my Arcs: #4892 and #112548
@Blazing Tiger and @Aqua Fox
To those who always respond to these situations with 'grow some skin' or 'it was just a joke', I respond with 'Grow some common courtesy and respect for your fellow people'.
Unless you know everyone is going to be okay with your subject matter, there are some things that are to sensitive to being brought up in an even casual joking matter. This happens to be one of the big ones. Having had to console friends after they have been attacked in such a vile manner and living in fear of it myself, I find absolutely no humor in any way with it. It's like telling survivors of the Holocaust jokes about it. Some things a decent human being just doesn't do.
So you said a joke in very poor taste in a public forum and were punished for it. What can I say about this but.. hey, 'Grow some skin already'.
SG Mate: Cien, what the hell is this Rookery thing?
RadDidIt: (interjecting) Dude. It's the Rookery.
SG Mate: Yeah, but what IS it?
RadDidIt: Silliness Incarnate.
Edit: Actually...I'll stay out of this one, probably for the best....HEIL JAGLER!
Quote:
That my good man was... Bill Hicks. Fantastic comedian! |
Originally Posted by Agonus
ERPvP?! Oh god... there goes my blissful obliviousness on the existence of that.
Reminds me of a stand-up routine though. The comedian was talking about wearing a cross as a sign of your faith in regards to Jesus and all that. Just imagine Jesus actually coming -back- and he sees all these people walking around with a reminder of the thing he was nailed to and died on. Be like giving a sniper rifle pendant to Jackie Kennedy. |
Quote:
Let's be clear about this. I was present when you got kicked. You called someone stupid for having an opinion other than yours. Then you proceeded to verbally abuse the person. And let me add that this incident is merely the straw that broke the camel's back. You've been running VU as if it's your private fiefdom to treat people like crap. Now you're accusing us of the same after you lost your operator privilege?
|
Originally Posted by Venture
Eh, I was kicked from VU2010 last night for having an opinion.
If the channel is going to be run as a private fiefdom where everyone has to toe one person's party line then it's useless. |
If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
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Everyone in the world finds certain things offensive. For instance, I might feel offended when someone is playing loud music with "offensive" lyrics next door. I might feel offended when some people joke about my culture (I'm Iranian, and people do joke about my background all the time). I might feel offended about tons of things that most people don't find offensive.
Originally Posted by NekoAli
To those who always respond to these situations with 'grow some skin' or 'it was just a joke', I respond with 'Grow some common courtesy and respect for your fellow people'.
Unless you know everyone is going to be okay with your subject matter, there are some things that are to sensitive to being brought up in an even casual joking matter. This happens to be one of the big ones. Having had to console friends after they have been attacked in such a vile manner and living in fear of it myself, I find absolutely no humor in any way with it. It's like telling survivors of the Holocaust jokes about it. Some things a decent human being just doesn't do.
So you said a joke in very poor taste in a public forum and were punished for it. What can I say about this but.. hey, 'Grow some skin already'.
What does this mean? Should I break into tears every time someone offends me by doing any of those actions? Should I go and complain to "moderators" if someone makes a joke about Middle Eastern people and terrorism? Or should I rage and go smack my neighbor for blasting loud music that "offensive" lyrics?
My point is, "offensive" is a purely subjective concept.
Now, there are two options: Either people toughen up and learn to not get offended by every little thing that penetrates their comfort zone, or people never do anything that might potentially penetrate someone else's comfort zone.
Both options are impossible.
So the conclusion is that there needs to be a sense of "moderation". Yes. If my neighbor played really loud music with lyrics that I find offensive for 40 hours per week, then yes. I'd do something about it. Anything less than that, I can tolerate. I respect them, as they respect me.
If the OP was on a frenzy of r**e jokes for an hour in a global channel, or the person always made similar offensive jokes over and over again, then yes. They deserved to be "dealt" with.
But a simple joke like that is way below what would be considered "normal tolerance". And just because the joke was offensive to a minority group, it doesn't make it okay for the minority group to suddenly have zero tolerance for others having fun with a subject they find offensive.
It's mutual respect. You respect someone's taste in jokes, as they respect your limitations, provided the limitations and magnitudes of jokes are reasonable.
From what the OP has posted, the limitations were not reasonable.
Hmmm, here I am posting.....
strange.
If I have all the facts here it would seem to me that a BAN right out of the box is too severe.
The world is too diverse to expect everybody to abide by the same high level of good taste that somebody else subscribes to.
I find it in bad taste, very, very bad taste but I would not give it another thought if I read it. Of course my life has not been impacted by the subject matter so it might be easier for me.
To me that is what you do to most things that are said for shock value or whatever. You just do not give it a platform, do not make it a big deal.
I mean why not a warning in private? Why not a STRONGLY worded warning? Don't do it again, not even once. If you do, your gone and your gone for good.
Anything else seems a bit power hungry and a sort of childish "i'll show you attitude"
Again...IF I have all the facts.
Here's a general rule of thumb for those of you who are still trying to figure it out. If it's something you wouldn't post on the forums, you'd probably want to think really carefully before saying it on VU. And if after saying it, an op/mod asks you to stop, it's probably a good idea to stop.
And for those who are operating on secondhand information from the incident, here's a piece of information that has been left out: one of the offenders posted a link to a pornography site. One of the things we have to consider as op/mod is whether things said in the channel is something we want to expose minors to, not just whether something is offensive. Granted, we're not perfect and sometimes we're not always there to enforce the rules. But we're doing what we can.
Bottom line is... Please be responsible with the things you say.
If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
Anyway, I hope to just lightly touch upon the single comment, on its own.
First off... What is ERPvP? That, to me, does sound like it would equate to what the OP suggested... which... Makes me question why anyone is referring to it as a "joke", hehe. It's not really a joke anyways, is it?
Does the E not stand for Erotic?
*shrugs*
As far as r**e being a word that shouldn't be used... I think the truth of that is using it inappropriately.
When people use that word in a casual manner about easily defeating enemies (Or team wipes) or whatever... It is somewhat shortsighted in respect towards other people.
Then again, that truth is just my opinion... the thing is, I know that is how many others feel about it and I choose to respect that, not because I think it is thin-skinned, but I can understand it... and I simply respect that.
Still, I just don't believe that the word itself should be seen as completely off limits. It's all about the context and usage. And I simply do not see that in the OP's comment.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Someone who just happens to be a channel Operator.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So, because of a nebulous "someone" "somewhere" MIGHT be offended about SOMETHING we say, we should just STFU?
Ever think that joking about unpleasant subjects like the R-word might just be a coping mechanism for addressing such painful topics? |
Sexual assault/child abuse is much, much more common than we think. Much.
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I'm sorry to hear that.
|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Someone who just happens to be a channel Operator.
Sexual assault/child abuse is much, much more common than we think. Much. |
If somebody you're arguing with goes off the deep end, don't follow.
Quote:
Wait, I thought that was the MA Stories and Lore forum. You mean he's got another one?
|
Originally Posted by kidengineer
[You've been running VU as if it's your private fiefdom to treat people like crap.
|
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
...I foresee no good end to this thread. 
Oh goodie, an internet controversey! I am attracted like moth to flame!
Two things I'd like to make clear here.
I did not link a porn site, someone else did, in a response to my joke.
I have never been warned or silenced in VU2010 for anything. If I had been told to cut it out, or even silenced, this post wouldn't have happened. First offense: boot.
"You must never imagine, that just because something is funny, it is not also dangerous." - Neil Gaiman
"You know what I love? People who respond with aggression and belligerence thinking it replaces logic." - Blue Mourning
Oooh, sexy hearsay.
Well, I guess we'll never know what really happened in the end. So many conflicting stories, so much general apathy from the forums...
Why IS this in the forums, by the way? Seems like a private disagreement to me.
The Elysienne; Magical controller
Silent Sickle; Natural scrapper
And many more.
Aenigma Rebis: "Actually, Ely's more like Jean Grey. Only... smart."
I wish this game will go the way LotRO did and make all channels not player-moderated, to prevent drama issues due to power-trippy people.
Since I keep the VU window open all the time I insist that anybody who posts anything mentioning either of the following two topics be banned from the channel instantly.
No jokes about car wrecks or drunk/drugged drivers. My sister was killed when a stoned semi driver rear ended her.
No jokes about having a heart attack. Two good friends of mine who were young and in good health have died of a sudden massive heart attack. The last one just a month ago.
I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who can add other restrictions. No jokes about shooting somebody, about mugging somebody, about being attacked by wild animals, about skateboarding accidents, being stabbed with a spoon, being slapped and smacked repeatedly. And if some unthinking brutish pathetic excuse for a human being should joke "This Posi TF is going so badly I wish I could point my AR at my own head." Then they should be instantly banned from every channel for life because there is almost definitely somebody out there who has had a family member commit suicide with a gun.
Or to put my opinion more bluntly. Either instantly ban anybody who says anything that somebody might find painful or ban nobody for it. A moderator who overreacts due to personal experience with a discussed subject should not be a moderator. If you can not treat all cases equally then you are not a moderator, you are a dictator.
Talking to a person is a reasonable first step. Silencing them if they keep it up is a reasonable second step. Banning them if they still haven't learned their lesson is a reasonable action. Jumping straight to step 3 is the action of somebody who has problems with self control let alone control of others.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
Quote:
Pardon, but.. I keep looking for the indication of your being an administrator, moderator or even simple forum moderator; some indication that you're actually a member of the NCSoft staff and I keep coming up empty-handed. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.|
Originally Posted by Commander
Jade, read the EULA. There is no free speech in CoH as it is not a public forum. It is a corporately owned game that sets the rules and regulations regarding on what they allow. I'm sorry that there are people that abide by their rules and upset you to no end.
It's not about "us" being right or being "full" of ourselves. It's about playing by the rules of the EULA. It's about being in an environment for years then all of a sudden, someone tries to makes waves. If we can play by the rules, then everyone else should as well. If that's too difficult or too problematic, then there are plenty of other places to go. |
But since I can't find a clear indication marking you a staff member, I'm going to take the safe assumption that you're probably coming here to post this just to help me prove my point! So, thank you! Thank you for being predictable and doing exactly what I knew someone would do in response to my post, now I can illustrate exactly what I'm talking about with an example! /em glee!
You see, you're the type I believe that has decided to take a piece of cardboard, colour and decorate it pretty and flaunt it around as a badge. I believe you're the type that thinks your opinion and personal interpretation of the rules supersedes my own. That some how by some one you've been given a higher authority that makes anything I say irrelevant and everything you say automatically right because clearly you're one of the 'chosen few'. Oh and yes, it is your personal interpretation. Ready for this? I might just blow your mind, but that's what I do, yo.
You see, in this game.. There are a choice few who have authority over the rest of us.. We call them NCSoft Staff members, be them admins, GMs, moderators or simply forum moderators; they are actually employed by NCSoft and given authority and the right to enforce the rules over the rest of us.. Then we have you.. Someone who thinks they have good intentions, thinks they're better than everyone else and believes that their personal interpretation of the rules automatically invalidates anything we think. We have a word for you, words in fact..
Wanna be moderator, pseudo mod, supacop, internet po-lice, TEH LAW, etc etc
The fact of the matter is you have 0 authority and 0 right to tell me what is right and wrong in this game. The only right you have? Is to report me and let the actual STAFF the people with actual AUTHORITY handle the situation and decide if rules have been broken and whether those rules are severe enough for punitive action if you believe something I or anyone else has done is wrong. This sort of self important knobbery is exactly what I'm talking about, though. You may not realize it but every day you act this way you probably chase one person away from this game because this game does not have an open and welcoming community and if you speak against the status quo, have a different opinion than the 'cool kids' or do something that these power tripping kiddies don't like they will use their cardboard badge against you and abuse what little power they have in this game.. Not to mention socially shun you and make sure that anyone else in the game that they can get their claws into does the same.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they can or cannot do, can and cannot say or can and cannot joke about. You're not NCSoft Staff, you have no authority and you're just a player like me.
inb4; attempted jab at my integrity, insult as response, you're a hypocrite/waah, you're a troll etc
PS: You may find this interesting. Not hours after posting what I posted I received a PM from someone in this forum that they had taken the time to write and send just to thank me for speaking the honest truth and going against the status quo.
ITT; RAW RAW FIGHT THE POWA
Quote:
I could've never said it any better!
Originally Posted by Mandu
Since I keep the VU window open all the time I insist that anybody who posts anything mentioning either of the following two topics be banned from the channel instantly.
No jokes about car wrecks or drunk/drugged drivers. My sister was killed when a stoned semi driver rear ended her.
No jokes about having a heart attack. Two good friends of mine who were young and in good health have died of a sudden massive heart attack. The last one just a month ago.
I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who can add other restrictions. No jokes about shooting somebody, about mugging somebody, about being attacked by wild animals, about skateboarding accidents, being stabbed with a spoon, being slapped and smacked repeatedly. And if some unthinking brutish pathetic excuse for a human being should joke "This Posi TF is going so badly I wish I could point my AR at my own head." Then they should be instantly banned from every channel for life because there is almost definitely somebody out there who has had a family member commit suicide with a gun.
Or to put my opinion more bluntly. Either instantly ban anybody who says anything that somebody might find painful or ban nobody for it. A moderator who overreacts due to personal experience with a discussed subject should not be a moderator. If you can not treat all cases equally then you are not a moderator, you are a dictator.
Talking to a person is a reasonable first step. Silencing them if they keep it up is a reasonable second step. Banning them if they still haven't learned their lesson is a reasonable action. Jumping straight to step 3 is the action of somebody who has problems with self control let alone control of others.
Thanks!
Quote:
Drama, Drama, Drama... |
Originally Posted by Count_Logan
Oh goodie, an internet controversey! I am attracted like moth to flame!
|
One of the reasons why I like the Kitty Channel. We don't put up with VU mods drama ********.
We're all adults. The only rule is that you are expected to act like one.
Quote:
You, sir or madam, deserve a round of applause.
|
Originally Posted by JadeTora
*snip*
|
Statesman said let there be heroes, and there were heroes.
Lord Recluse said let there be villains, and there were villains.
NCsoft said let there be nothing, and there was nothing.
That would be valid if we were at all discussing any action taken by representatives of Paragon Studios or NCSoft.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"