The joke that got me kicked from VU2010

I want to clarify something...

I do NOT hate Commander.

I do NOT even DISLIKE Commander.

I don't know him well enough to dislike him, and certainly not enough to hate him. He may be a great guy. There may be many many things that he and I are in perfect agreement on. The points I have tried to make in my posts in this thread are, obviously, not among them.

Based on his statements in this thread, I am of the belief that he does not possess the qualities it takes to be a good moderator. Key among these is objectivity. Anyone who feels they should wield power and never be questioned has no leadership skills. Based on rule #2 in his posted list (the first time it has ever been pointed to on a wide scale to my knowledge), it appears that the moderators of the VU* channels as a whole hold the same misconception and only further indicate that these channels are not for me. The policy of quietly discussing disagreements with another mod is inherently flawed by a lack of objectivity on the part of the mods. Let's say someone had a problem with Kegan. They quietly and respectfully send a tell to Commander--who has already indicated in this thread is a close RL friend. Do you really think there is any chance at all that Commander is going to be objective? The only PROPER action for Commander to take in a situation like that would be to explain his friendship with Kegan and suggest the person go to a different channel mod. Given the overwhelming zest with which he jumped into this thread to side with Kegan (before getting all the facts), I don't see that as a likely action.

I also wish to make an apology to Commander. Like him, I am quite tired. Have been tired for several hours now, but can't sleep. It was wrong of me to call him "dense". It is the argument which was dense, and not the person. I do sincerely apologize for that statement. Like I said before, I accept responsibility for my words, and when an apology is due, an apology is given. Being tired is an excuse, but it is not a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

Well said, Garielle.

I'm all in agreement with channels having moderation (And, given the crowd of people and the point of this particular channel... strict moderation).

I'm also all on board with the notion that many people are too disrespectful towards others and a moderated channel of VUXXXX's purpose is not the place for unleashing whatever anyone wants.

I also understand that a lot of people are overly sensitive and could use a bit of getting over themselves.

None of these generalizations really have much to do with what I am now going to bring up...


The specifics of this one comment that the OP claims is why they got kicked (And no one seems to be denying this now).

"Isn't ERPVP just r**e"?

I detailed my thoughts of usage of that word and respect towards others in my previous post in this thread...

I fail to see how this comment is offensive.

So, I am not sitting here saying, "since I fail to see how it is offensive... It isn't!!"
I am, however, curious if someone could point out why exactly his comment is 'wrong'.

It is not a flippant use of the word. It is not even a joke, is it? I mean, they may have been saying it somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but... it's a legitimate notion. If I stumbled onto a discussion about ERPvP... My intial conclusion would be... "Wait... Erotic... Role-Play... vs. Player... wait, wha??"

Heh... the OP's reaction seems like a simple two plus two comment.

Maybe I am just out of the loop here and others know full well what ERPvP is and/or is not... Which might alter the view of the comment.
So, that's what I am looking for.
Talk about the specifics. Not the generalizations.
What is bad about what he said?

From what I've seen, the issue at hand is relatively simple. Someone believed he/she was kicked wrongfully by an op. Based on that one action of that one op, some others are attempting a PR campaign against all the ops of the channel by blowing the entire scenario out of proportion. If there's a grievance, this certainly isn't the proper place to bring it up. Bring it up here, and we're gonna see it as drama. There's but a brief set of rules for VU from its conception. It is based on the opinion that everyone should try their best to show good judgment when conducting themselves.

Did Makai exhibit good judgment when making that comment about ERPVP? That's questionable. Were there any subsequent comments that contributed to kick? I do not know at this point. Let me be clear that I am not making any accusation. I believe that the op in question who kicked Makai at least made an effort to show good judgment. This of course could had been clouded by a number of factors (late night/fatigue, the ERPVP conversation getting out of hand too quickly, possible bias toward involved parties - I'm not saying there is as I'm just throwing it out there). As I've said before, we're not perfect. We're just doing what we can.

So here's my request. If anyone has a chat log of the incident in question, please forward it to me. I don't mind if my PM box gets filled. Logs from multiple sources would ensure that I have a complete and unedited version of the event. I plan on reviewing this so I can draw my own conclusions with as little external painting of the event as possible. At that point, I intend to bring this to Kegan with a set of recommendations and to share my findings with the public. In the meantime, I ask that Commander, Makai, and all other participants to minimize their contribution to this thread so we can resolve this with as little drama as possible. The less posting we see in this thread from this point on, the better. Just send me logs of the event.

*sigh*
This post is still going? Can we just drop this and act a little more mature about the topic? I dont know if its just me but seeing both sides of this I feel like everyone is blowing this out of hand. Some things were said. A mod took an action they believed was needed. We all can argue back and forth over what was the right actions to take or if the comment was offencive or not. In the end where are we left? just spitting venom at eachother which gets us nowhere. Lets move past this, try to act a little more mature, and just have fun playing a game.

waaaaalll of teeeext.....*falls over*
do you really want to see my person beating a dead horse gif that badly?

Looks at kidengineer... *blinks*

A shining beacon of logic. Ask for a record of the incident. Collect the facts, then pass judgement. This is what I was trying to point out. This is a perfect example of good leadership skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".

I just want to point something out here. I know what I said is offensive. I'm not complaining that someone was offended and took action. I'm complaining about what that action was. I broke a rule...a rule posted in a rulebook that I have no way of accessing. And the punishment for a first offense was a boot.

Seems to me that a boot is not a permanent thing or anything, Makai.
What you probably should have done was contacted someone privately and worked it out.

There seem to be many people complaining about poorly defined rules or what level of power or professionalism the moderators of the channel in question have in enforcing the rules. Let me clear this up, VUXXXX channels are PRIVATE channels.


Regardless of what documents may exist, the rules are what the mods say they are and can change on a whim. The penalties for breaking the rules are whatever the mods feel the penalty should be. They do not even need a reason to boot people. They can boot people at random and NCSoft does not care one bucket of swill about it unless there is a EULA violation somehow involved.


If you do not like the moderator viewpoint on the issue brought up, leave the channel or go start your own. There is no reason to argue about how other people run their private channels here.


I am not saying either side is right or wrong here. Both have made valid points supporting their point of view. What I am saying is holding this discussion in this forum is pointless. I ask you all to please wrap it up or take it to private messages.

It's cause it's a player run channel, that they're also accountable to the players that they mod. That means no ability to say "Sorry, our rules. No complaints." They can say "Sorry, our rules." all they want and be totally in the clear. They're just not above the social backlash it might cause.

Also, this whole thread is ****ing hilarious. It's like r**e for r**e's sake. I guess everyone must like it, cause they're still at it.

Words only have the power we give them.

Whether something is offensive is irrelevant. People vary too much to find a happy medium.

What matters is whether something is appropriate contextually.

VU2010 is a publicly accessible channel, so rap jokes are obviously inappropriate. As for the punishment? Well that's up to the operators: it's their channel to operate as they see fit.

What a very strange thing to debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ_Shecky Unfortunately, I know a number of women who have play this game and have been r**ed in RL. Its not something to joke about or be taken lightly.

"I know people who got r**ed so my opinion is valid."

O_o

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeTora ...you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they can or cannot do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandu Since I keep the VU window open all the time I insist that anybody who posts anything mentioning either of the following two topics be banned from the channel instantly. No jokes about car wrecks or drunk/drugged drivers. My sister was killed when a stoned semi driver rear ended her. No jokes about having a heart attack. Two good friends of mine who were young and in good health have died of a sudden massive heart attack. The last one just a month ago. I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who can add other restrictions. No jokes about shooting somebody, about mugging somebody, about being attacked by wild animals, about skateboarding accidents, being stabbed with a spoon, being slapped and smacked repeatedly. And if some unthinking brutish pathetic excuse for a human being should joke "This Posi TF is going so badly I wish I could point my AR at my own head." Then they should be instantly banned from every channel for life because there is almost definitely somebody out there who has had a family member commit suicide with a gun. Or to put my opinion more bluntly. Either instantly ban anybody who says anything that somebody might find painful or ban nobody for it. A moderator who overreacts due to personal experience with a discussed subject should not be a moderator. If you can not treat all cases equally then you are not a moderator, you are a dictator. Talking to a person is a reasonable first step. Silencing them if they keep it up is a reasonable second step. Banning them if they still haven't learned their lesson is a reasonable action. Jumping straight to step 3 is the action of somebody who has problems with self control let alone control of others.

Only decent post in the thread. Kudos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry_Angel [Operators] aren't paid NCsoft employees, they're players giving up their free time to help run a social network smoothly for all those who wish to join.

Little bit of an exaggeration there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Grow thicker skin? How about grow a soul?

Little bit of an exaggeration there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander We live in a sick world. We live in a world where cyber bullying can push people over the edge, even to the point of suicide.

No.

Psychological problems push people to suicide. The internet doesn't make anyone do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander To me, if you can joke about an issue like this, then you are no better than the people committing the acts. Why? Because you are forcing people to relive these experiences. And you have NO right to mentally hold someone hostage of the fears, pain, and torture suffered from the actual event.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on these forums. I didn't find the OP's joke funny AT ALL. But this post of yours is absolutely ridiculous. You're actually saying people that joke about rap are as bad as rapists.

That is...that is BEYOND the realms of epic fail. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you've never had an experience the likes of which you are describing.

The sad part of this all ... Had you just rejoined you would have been silenced by another Mod. We have never Perma-kicked anyone from the Chanel. We normally Silence and depending on your reaction either unsilence moments later or leave you to another MOD if you are too confrontational. (IE sending me tells, having your friends send me tells) If your kicked its more that you really pissed us off and want to make point that that was WAY over the line. (Just ask Xad how many time he has been kicked and silenced? I still <3 him,) As for a rule book. There is one floating about in cyber space somewhere. But treads get deleted, unstickied, MOTD changed. The rules wont be the a perma message of the day .. we use that for important things like announcements. You have all seen what they are .. I posted them ... BT has posted them. To be clear there are 6 MODS that currently play the game. BT, Kid, Sandy, Vtron, Magnet and Myself. That's 6 vs 2000, you do the math. The Chanel is what it is and you all chose to be a part of it when you click the join button. No one forces you to join or forces you to stay. So play by the rules and just get along? Is that so hard? Be nicer to people. That all I ask. As MODs we will try to be more patient with you.

If I'm going be booted with no warning or even so much as a /tell from the guy who booted me, I don't want back in the channel.

If the attitude of the people in charge is that dismissive, have a good time with your channel and leave me the hell out of it.

Time to make a new channel, a better channel then. Suggestions?

Oh damn. I stop paying attention for a week and I miss a dramastorm. Woo.