Why is Going Rogue Being Doled Out Piecemeal?


Adelie

 

Posted

Sorry but the question's gotta be asked. The way things are looking now players have to:

- Buy in early to get early access to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning

- Wait until July and get access to four zones, 7 new costume sets, 2 additional powesets (parts of which we've previously seen in-game for NPCs), and level one access to the new incarnate system

- Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier).

And in the meanwhile, Ultra mode which was flagged for retail is now free. And in its place comes an awful lot of last minute bait and switch improvements.

My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product?

This just seems like a really weird business model somehow... What's the logic behind it again?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
Sorry but the question's gotta be asked. The way things are looking now players have to:

- Buy in early to get early access to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning
Free Advertising. People who are not aware there is an expansion coming sees someone playing these sets, asks "How do you get those?" and whammy, another sale.

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- Wait until July and get access to four zones, 7 new costume sets, 2 additional powesets (parts of which we've previously seen in-game for NPCs), and level one access to the new incarnate system

- Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier).
They'd rather release part of it in July than make everyone wait until December. I'm glad they're doing this, want it NAO.

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And in the meanwhile, Ultra mode which was flagged for retail is now free. And in its place comes an awful lot of last minute bait and switch improvements.

My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product?

This just seems like a really weird business model somehow... What's the logic behind it again?
It's still all one package, you don't have to purchase it all seperately, it's just coming along as they're finished on it, rather than making us all wait until its complete.


 

Posted

I am assuming that no matter if it's being doled out piecemeal or everything held back until it's all finished to be released at once, there will be complaints.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product?
Define "full product" in an MMO which gets updated every 3-6 months?



City of Heroes and City of Villains both waited until the next issue to release their End Games.*


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
- Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier).

...

My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product?

This just seems like a really weird business model somehow... What's the logic behind it again?
Think of it this way: I19 is is the I1 (or the I7) of Going Rogue. (Also, are you planning on blowing through GR, content-wise? Who cares if the endgame system isn't entirely finished if your newly minted Praetorian is only level 1? Also also, it means they can test the waters with Incarnate Level 1 and adjust the other 9 based on player feedback and datamining before unleashing a massive can of worms.)

As for the other stuff - because it's an excellent promotional gimmick. If Dual Pistols is ready to go, why sit on it when you can turn it into an incentive to pre-purchase? And why gate graphical upgrades when they'd make a swell bullet point for a free release?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
- Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier).
When City of Heroes came out, how many levels did it have?

What happened the next issue?

When City of Villains came out, how many levels did it have?

What happened the next issue?

When Going Rogue comes out...

There's a pattern here, I just know it.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
And why gate graphical upgrades when they'd make a swell bullet point for a free release?
More to the point, since the graphical update is not simply a matter of adding a "Shiny!" button, but also requires major changes to the entire game, there are very few sane reasons to gate it and a great number of excellent ones not to.

Not least of which is that trying to gate it would probably cause the programming team to go on a murderous rampage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
Sorry but the question's gotta be asked. The way things are looking now players have to:

- Buy in early to get early access to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning

- Wait until July and get access to four zones, 7 new costume sets, 2 additional powesets (parts of which we've previously seen in-game for NPCs), and level one access to the new incarnate system

- Wait until 4th quarter 2010 to get the remaining 9 levels and the new endgame system and perhaps another high-level zone (but only if we buy GR 3 months earlier).

And in the meanwhile, Ultra mode which was flagged for retail is now free. And in its place comes an awful lot of last minute bait and switch improvements.

My question is: why? Why not just package it together in one retail expansion and let players enjoy? The way its all piecemealed out now, players might as well wait until 4th quarter to get Going Rogue and enjoy it all in one go rather then buying in now and waiting 9 months to get the full product?

This just seems like a really weird business model somehow... What's the logic behind it again?
Piecemeal?

Early access to Dual Pistols & Demon Summoning, is a pre-purchase perk. Just like those pre-orders that get perks, but this time, it's a perk for pre-purchasing.

It's an MMO, things are never finished untill it goes out of business, which I hope no one wants.

Get you sucked in with one level of incarnate, then keep you around for the next 9 levels

As for Ultramode, I think that was going to be available to everyone, whether they purchased GR or not. So getting it out before GR is not a big deal.


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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
As for Ultramode, I think that was going to be available to everyone, whether they purchased GR or not. So getting it out before GR is not a big deal.
Yes, Ultra Mode is part of Issue 17 (per the splash page on the main site for Issue 17), which everyone has access to whether they buy GR or not. Whether your computer can RUN it is another story, but it will be available to all subscribers.

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Samuraiko/Dark_Respite


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And in the meanwhile, Ultra mode which was flagged for retail is now free. And in its place comes an awful lot of last minute bait and switch improvements.
This has to be the first time that I have seen the phrase "bait and switch" go with the word "improvements".



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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
This has to be the first time that I have seen the phrase "bait and switch" go with the word "improvements".
If you'd worked with software developers like the folks behind Beeline, you'd know *exactly* what this means.


 

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I'm pretty sure the QoL stuff coming with I17 and GR isn't 'last minute' by any means. Some of it like the inf email feature has been asked for since the game kicked off.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Dark_Respite View Post
Yes, Ultra Mode is part of Issue 17 (per the splash page on the main site for Issue 17), which everyone has access to whether they buy GR or not.
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.

Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date).

Keep in mind this announcement comes in Spring 2010 when GR was provisionally scheduled for release (and is now pushed back to July). So this "swap out" of upcoming features is seemingly a last minute decision (and this is after 2+ years of development mind you) - but for what reason?


 

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Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.

Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was announced as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date).

Keep in mind this announcement comes in Spring 2010 when GR was provisionally scheduled for release (and is now pushed back to July). So this "swap out" of upcoming features is seemingly a last minute decision (and this is after 2+ years of development mind you) - but for what reason?
Can you imagine just how much of an ungodly fire storm would get kicked up if Ultra Mode wasnt free content? Given how long people have been griping about the visuals on the game, and how the last change was five years ago (iirc)?
It made absolute sense to release it as free content. Thats probably the over-riding reason. Because it would require a Jackanism of game design to make people pay for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

I am constantly amazed how people of the Internet can take anything and whinge about it.

I swear if they announced that everyone was going to get free cash money with every purchase of GR, someone would complain.


In answer to comments above, since Ultra-mode is likely to be an extra level of graphics above the current quality levels, it would be possible to gate it on purchase of GR. Possible, not necessarily a good idea.


Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Can you imagine just how much of an ungodly fire storm would get kicked up if Ultra Mode wasnt free content? Given how long people have been griping about the visuals on the game, and how the last change was five years ago (iirc)?
It made absolute sense to release it as free content. Thats probably the over-riding reason. Because it would require a Jackanism of game design to make people pay for it.
An ungodly firestorm didn't stop anyone from releasing the Body Alteration/Gender Change feature as part of a retail booster pack (and lots of folks felt that should've been a free feature). So why is this any different?


 

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I could have sworn when Ultra Mode was revealed they also said it would be available to everyone not just people who bought GR and it may come out before GR if that was possible.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
An ungodly firestorm didn't stop anyone from releasing the Body Alteration/Gender Change feature as part of a retail booster pack (and lots of folks felt that should've been a free feature). So why is this any different?
Theres a difference between something that is a nice little feature that stops you having to roll different alts, and a game-wide graphics upgrade that has an impact on the whole game and its appeal to the outside market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

as others have said, the pistols do work as a good advertisement, if you are on the fence, are playing the game and a pistoleer joins your pug, you might get the "want it now" from having them playing with something you cant. demon summoning, from the page that was updated yesterday, may well have the same effect. frankly i was pleasently surprised that they did that at all, but in a way it makes sense. lets face it, coh is a game that relies heavily on legacy players, we just dont leave, and if we do, we come back, rather than hope for a bulk of new players with going rogue's boxed expansion, keep the old farts playing and get them paying now with the early purchase. i got a new powerset months in advance, and they have my money in the bank for a few more interest cycles.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
You're spinning the facts a bit, my dear.

Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date).

Keep in mind this announcement comes in Spring 2010 when GR was provisionally scheduled for release (and is now pushed back to July). So this "swap out" of upcoming features is seemingly a last minute decision (and this is after 2+ years of development mind you) - but for what reason?
Yes, originally at HeroCon 2009, it was said that Ultra Mode was part of GOING ROGUE. Then later on, once they got it up and running, it was then announced as part of I-17.

I'm not complaining - I get UM, I get it for free (well, apart from what I pay for the game, of course), and I get it earlier. And as long as GR still has lots of spiffy new uber stuff, I'm happy.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite


Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
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378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
Before Issue 17 was announced, Ultra mode was promised as a major feature of the retail expansion pack, Going Rogue. When Issue 17 was announced, that was no longer the case. So off the retail pack came Ultra Mode and in its place comes the first level of the Incarnate system (with the other 9 levels to come at a late date).
When the initial info about GR was presented at HeroCon, people were told that *probably* there wouldn't be another Issue between I16 and GR. However, there was a chance that the devs *might* be able to put out a mini-issue including the Ultra Mode upgrade if it was ready for release before GR. I think they've more than delivered on what wasn't even a promise.


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Originally Posted by Ravenswing View Post
I swear if they announced that everyone was going to get free cash money with every purchase of GR, someone would complain.
But you think its okay if they take a consumer's money for preorders in March, with the promise of having full access to the product in July, and THEN announce after taking that money that the last piece of the product won't be available until MUCH later (at least 4th quarter 2010 or first quarter 2011).

I'm so glad you feel they're entitled to my money 9 months before they actually deliver the whole product.


 

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
I could have sworn when Ultra Mode was revealed they also said it would be available to everyone not just people who bought GR and it may come out before GR if that was possible.
if i recall it wasnt said during the presentation, but it was discussed and heavily passed around the community during the after presentation chatter. Perfect pain brought it up a lot, but im not sure if it was her they mentioned it to or someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
But you think its okay if they take a consumer's money for preorders in March, with the promise of having full access to the product in July, and THEN announce after taking that money that the last piece of the product won't be available until MUCH later (at least 4th quarter 2010 or first quarter 2011).

I'm so glad you feel they're entitled to my money 9 months before they actually deliver the whole product.
as has been mentioned before, the final 10 levels of cov and coh were delivered in issues after their release, issue 7 took an ungodly amount of time, too. Also, lets not get too hostile about this with the "entitled" crack, they give you the option of getting it now and having the bonus of having the powers before everyone else. incarnates are not the focus of going rogue, they are a new system that we are getting a part of in gr and will actually be out in issue 19. gr will have all the content we had been told about, side switching, praetoria, the powersets, it will just have a bonus of a part of a system from issue 19. they arent entitled to anything(nor are you) they are offering additional value to a product and for an inexplicable reason, you are taking it as a rather personal affront.


 

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There's also a valid economic reason: cash flow. While they get a nice steady supply of monthly subscriptions, they also make a nice chunk of change by selling new boxes. For most games there is an initial surge in buying when the game first comes out and then it declines to almost zero over time. Pre-orders and pre-purchases lets them extend the curve a bit and get some of that initial surge money ahead of time.

It makes it a smaller spike, but the income gets distributed over time, generating a smoother curve.


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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
as has been mentioned before, the final 10 levels of cov and coh were delivered in issues after their release, issue 7 took an ungodly amount of time, too. Also, lets not get too hostile about this with the "entitled" crack, they give you the option of getting it now and having the bonus of having the powers before everyone else. incarnates are not the focus of going rogue, they are a new system that we are getting a part of in gr and will actually be out in issue 19. gr will have all the content we had been told about, side switching, praetoria, the powersets, it will just have a bonus of a part of a system from issue 19. they arent entitled to anything(nor are you) they are offering additional value to a product and for an inexplicable reason, you are taking it as a rather personal affront.
The final 10 lvls weren't promised as part of COV, the retail box product, so that's fine.

Ultra mode was promised as part of GR, another retail box product, and now its not and in its place is PART of a new yet wholly different content update as equal substitute but the rest of it won't be available until 3 to 6 months (or more) after the retail box becomes available.

THAT is something totally different than Grandville and COV; THAT is bait and switch substitution that occured AFTER consumers paid forward on a preorder and the promise of getting a COMPLETE retail product in July.

And that is a big problem (or its going to be very soon).