Influence Sink: IO Level Modification/Recrafting?

Apologies in advance for not posting this in Suggestions, but it seemed like an idea that could be vetted on the market forum first as it could deal with some issues we already discuss here - inflation, uneven level supply of IO, market prices.

The idea is pretty simple, and it could be one that has already been discussed. For that I also apologize in advance.

What if the existing invention tables allowed you to change the level of already crafted IO?

Essentially, tweak the system so that an existing IO is a component for building a new IO, just like a recipe or piece of salvage; the IO destroyed and the new IO produced are the same kind of IO, but a different level. Something like:

Lvl 48 Obliteration: A/D/R/E + 2M Inf + Mathematic Proof = Lvl 50 Obliteration

Of course this doesn't have to be one-way; say you really want one of a lower level:

Lvl 44 Obliteration: A/D/R/E + 11M Inf + Inert Gas = Lvl 33 Obliteration: A/D/R/E

I picked 1M per level of change here because it was a nice even number. Maybe that's too much, maybe it's not enough, that could be discussed. Either way, I think it should be scaled by rarity; something like 100k/level for Pool A, 250k/level for Pool B, 1M/level for Pool C.

Some possible benefits I could see:

1. Devs don't have to change existing methods of drops or merit/ticket rolls

2. Greater availability for IO at different levels. Yes, 50s may still churn out level 50 recipes and craft level 50 enhancements. But they don't have to stay that way.

3. An evening out of recipe/IO [market] costs by level. If a L49 can be converted to a L50 for 1M, the price of the L49 shouldn't be extraordinarily lower than the L50.

4. It's minor, but if it would require salvage it could increase demand, if only *very* slightly.

5. We need influence sinks. Anything that gets inf out of the system is good, right? Maybe the crafting fee here isn't even steep enough and should be more. Either way, this is something that would be geared toward those with inf (or possibly those wanting to make their products more attractive on the market).


Any thoughts? I'm sure there have to be some drawbacks, and I'm curious what the effect on the market could be with such a system. I'm sure there are consequences I haven't fully thought out.

Even if it had hideous drawbacks: I want it.

I support this.

This? This is a great idea. It also helps the redside issue of there being almost no non-50 recipes/IOs on the market.

You want to be fully IOd at 32? Awesome, but you've gotta pay.

Fantastic idea.

sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

I'd use such a system if available.

Sounds good to me and I really can't come up with any problems this could bring.

I like it. Having so many recipes at 50 and so few at 30 is a problem. I wonder how some of the details would work.

Should it cost money to lower the level of an IO, or should you earn money as the level goes down, like you're extracting value?

What about enhancements that only exist within a certain level range? I assume they would still be bound by those levels.

Would people buy recipes in the 30's and then upgrade them as they leveled? If so, what effect would that have? Fewer transactions on the market? Less inf but more recipes? I'm not sure.

It might make sense that, to shift a recipe up in level, you need to use the same salvage as if you were crafting it over again.

Could you upgrade something from level 10 to 50 in one step? Or would you need to have each level be a separate crafting? Maybe 5 level steps?

Mostly unrelated, but SO's can be combined. We can't do that with IO's, but maybe we should be able to.

Hmm. It's hard to predict what effect this would have, but it would definitely give players more control and more choices, and that's appealing. The unpredictability might scare the devs, though.

The basis certainly seems reasonable.
The charge should be decently steep, 1 million/level may be a touch too high, but its certainly no so far out of whack as to be a silly amount.

Like others, I like the fundamental idea and can't see any imediate showstoping exploits this would open up.

Now coding it may have em, but design wise it looks great to me.

this is a great idea but if you want a quick inf sink, release a bunch of lvl 51-53 IOs on the market at 1 inf each then delete the selling accounts.

This I support completely, and I don't support much very often.

I'm happy to see this idea is going over well so far. I'll address some of peterpeter's questions, because they're good ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterpeter I like it. Having so many recipes at 50 and so few at 30 is a problem. I wonder how some of the details would work. Should it cost money to lower the level of an IO, or should you earn money as the level goes down, like you're extracting value?

I'd say no. I wouldn't want folks buying cheap unwanted 50s, downgrading them to extract Inf, then discarding them. I think this is just something you're willing to pay for for the utility - be it for optimizing level for exemplaring, or buying a higher level and downgrading it so you can use it earlier (say, buy a 40, downgrade to 35 to use on a 32).

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterpeter What about enhancements that only exist within a certain level range? I assume they would still be bound by those levels.

Yes - absolutely bound to their existing level ranges.

Quote:

Would people buy recipes in the 30's and then upgrade them as they leveled? If so, what effect would that have? Fewer transactions on the market? Less inf but more recipes? I'm not sure.

I'd say this should just be for unslotted enhancements. If you got a drop a few levels ago and didn't get around to crafting it (or just had no room to slot it), you might want to boost it a few levels. But if it's something already slotted, you need to free it up using a respec in order to modify it.

Quote:

It might make sense that, to shift a recipe up in level, you need to use the same salvage as if you were crafting it over again.

That's a possibility. I do think salvage should be involved somehow.

Quote:

Could you upgrade something from level 10 to 50 in one step? Or would you need to have each level be a separate crafting? Maybe 5 level steps?

I'd say yes, as long as the range of the IO goes that far. It would just cost a lot of inf. Maybe additional salvage too. But that might make it more complex than it needs to be.

Quote:

Mostly unrelated, but SO's can be combined. We can't do that with IO's, but maybe we should be able to.

Partially where I got the idea. If you think about it, combining two lvl 50 SO's is just a recipe for a 50+, where the components are the two 50s.


As far as an interface, I was thinking that maybe if you went to the invention table you could have a 'Recipes' tab and an 'Enhancements' tab; the Enhancements tab would list whatever you had in your tray, similar to the recipe inventory. In this case the details of what is required for crafting might include a level slider (it might be that enhancements would have to create multiple entries; one for levels 20-25, one for 26-40, one for 41-50 for a Positron's Blast for example).

I really like this idea. I'm not a marketing mogul but it seems to me that this would also spread influence among all levels of an recipe making marketing much more interesting (complicated).

Now if you are crafting not only do you have to calculate cost versus return on a level fifty IO but also whether it would be cheaper to buy a 48 and craft up to a 50.

I like it.

It's certainly interesting.

Personally, I wouldn't bother upgrading an IO just one or two levels. The increase in it's bonuses just isn't enough to be worth it.

Now, I have a L19(?) crafted IO that I can't give away on the BM. (One of the Recharge Intensive Pets sets. I crafted it because it dropped and I thought another character of mine could use it to get the last bonus out of the set. Turned out to be a duplicate.) If I bumped it up into the 40's, it would be worth something. But if that costs 20 Million+, then I'll probably be taking a loss if I try to sell it. So I'd be worse off than if I deleted it now.

If the cost of upgrading is too high, then it won't be used.

/signed

As someone who has been in the market for level 30-33 Recipes/IOs and having waited for weeks for someone to put them up for sale at buy it nao prices on the market, I approve of this idea.

Level 30-33 is a wasteland right now. Even blueside (depending on what you want). Anything that would help I approve of, because one of the more frustrating things in this game is having the Inf' but there being no supply to spend it on, even at stupidcrazy pricing.

WARNING: I bold names.

Brilliant idea!

You're helping out two major problems here - inflation and sparsity of levelling IOs. I love it.

hmm. Lowering 20 IO's from 50 to 33 = 17*20 = 340 million inf. Which is the equivalent, for inf-burning purposes, of buying 3.4 billion inf of stuff. And for the equivalent of GETTING the money, it's just 340 million inf.

Seems like a good amount to me.

(also it turns a level 40 miracle into a level 20 miracle for 20 million, which seems practically cheap by today's standards.)

I like the idea- various changes to the game have effectively neutered supply below 50, this would redress the balance for those interested.

Really love this idea.

I've posted a copy of the idea in the Suggestions forum (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=214158), along with the q/a post with peterpeter's questions.

Thanks all - hopefully this goes over well there too.

Interesting idea. Should allow crafted enhancements to be changed for 1M per level and recipes at 700k per level. This would slightly encourage changing at a recipe level and stimulate the lower level salvage market as well.

If you can change the level of a HamiO I could see everyone swapping their 50s to 53s overnight, and TitanOs being level bumped just for the novelty.

You'd also have to monitor limits so IOs cannot exist outside of their proper range...eg. 10-30, 20-50 etc.