Johnny Moronic probably falls into this category. As far as he's concerned he's The One fighting against an invisible System to pull it down. Everyone in the system is a potential enemy.
As far as everyone else is concerned he's a gullible idiot. I do like to fudge it slightly so that his contacts are aware of this and making up alternative reasons for him to do the most horrific missions "Go rescue some citizens in Paragon City who are going to be targetted by The System and deliver them to our operatives who are disguised as Vahzilok..."
I have a Tank and Brute named Happ Hazard who might count for this. (OK, technically the Brute is named Happ Hazzard, but that's because of the unique name rule)
The idea is that they are a set of twins who both took up the same mask, name and fighting style. As far as anyone knows, there really is only one Happ Hazard, and it's hard to tell if he's a brutally violent anti-hero, or a merciful and compassionate Villain. In fact, once Going Rogue goes live, they will BOTH move one step down the line, effectively becoming interchangeable as a character.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Maybe. I've never had a character complete every available arc, so I'm likely enough to miss him. Also, only his first arc is all that villainous; the third one could be, but even on my real villains (which my Corr and Crab are) I swear that guy is a double agent working for Blue Steel or something.|
Originally Posted by Gulver
...then.... you meet Westin Phipps....
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"No, really Lord Recluse! I tried to betray them, but the heroes were just one step ahead of us! You should keep me around because I'm such a puppy-kicker! I mean, look at what I did to that teacher that was 'educating' the Freakshow to embrace their crippling drug addictions for a good cause!"
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As to playing villains who are secretly heroes - no, I don't. It's a cop out in my eyes, as there's a whole other city for them. Getting over my moral high ground and making a villain who is both clearly evil and still cool as an antagonist is something of a challenge to my writing skill.
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Edit: My character's biography:
This woman is a hero from Paragon City. She felt bad for the all the innocent citizens suffering under Lord Recluse, but nobody seems to be getting anywhere by fighting him. She was in Brickstown during some sort of breakout at the Zig, and on a whim she bribed an Arachnos pilot to fly her over at the same time as some thug he was supposed to transporting.
Some mercenary guy gave her some jobs fighting monsters, and now everyone is talking about a "Destined One." She's a bit confused about why nobody important seems to care that a declared hero is walking around in the Rogue Isles, but she feels like the citizens appreciate all the rescuing and gangbusting she's doing, so she decided to stay for a while.
My villains run a considerable gamut from unrepentant monster all the way up to pacifist crusader. One or two are just vile for the sake of being vile. Some are upstanding members of their own community who simply have alien moralities, either not affording humans the benefits of being 'real people' or having such a long view of history that individual lives don't matter. A few are fanatics who believe that their ends justify the means; several others are simply selfish and greedy and don't look beyond the next paycheck/haul.
And there's even one who is in the Isles specifically for altruistic reasons, trying to improve people's lives while doing as little harm as possible. He's a MA/SR stalker who uses pressure point strikes. For his last 10 levels, I challenged myself to minimize the number of defeated enemies per XP. It's an interesting challenge.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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I have an 18 magic thugs/traps who's supposed to be a servant of Bast (tacked on to bio, magic was an accidental click) who's working as a Longbow informant. |
Originally Posted by Teeth
Does anyone here play redside characters who, in the RP sense, are proper heroes? I have one that I rolled partially as a joke (playing off of all the wannabe villains you saw before CoV came out), but I'm finding that it doesn't take much effort to justify in character.
This is just a curiosity. I'm not (currently) looking to join any RP groups or anything like that. |
I find myself mentally rewriting endings.
For example, I didn't bring the super infected to that crazy doctor, I brought him a magical simulacrum while helping longbow take off with the real one.
going to bring her GR eventually
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
My Plant/energy dom I Roleplay very casually is an eco-terrorist leader of the ELA (environmental Liberation Army0 and self-proclaimed anarcho primitivist. The concept was inspired by such groups as The black hat society the weatherman underground and most notably Green Peace, ELF, PETA, Captain Planet. She will not carry out attacks against civilians; rather her targets are primarily institutions and their corrupt leaders.
She believes herself to be a righteous Environmental liberator and refuses to paint herself in black and white terms as the phalanx would like to.
I like to challenge conventional ethics. One persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter after all.
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Cop out...? Seriously? how, exactly, do you figure it's a "Cop out" that I don't enjoy playing villainous or evil characters and, instead, create heroes using the Villainous archetypes? |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
As to playing villains who are secretly heroes - no, I don't. It's a cop out in my eyes, as there's a whole other city for them. Getting over my moral high ground and making a villain who is both clearly evil and still cool as an antagonist is something of a challenge to my writing skill.
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So my Nrg/Dark (Colored like Radiation) Brute gains more damage over continued fighting. Does that mean she's a villain? No! She's a scrapper with different damage and a different inherent. I roleplay her as Neutrino Girl, a heroside Radiation Blaster, as well.
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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
I've yet to come across a single 'I R REELY HERO' villain who does it convincingly - the swath of them who insist you can't identify who they are because they're wearing a slightly different mask is beyond irritating. Similar with 'I R REELY VEELUN' characters Blue side. I don't know about you, but being known for the murder of an entire PPD division only to get training from Ms.Liberty is pretty ******* stupid.
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And no. I've never -ever- done that. I've never had a "I'm a hero! Really! MURDER KILL STEAL PLUNDER See? i saved a kitty from the bank vault, it's made out of jade and will go nicely on my shelf!" character. Nor does my one and only crossover character hide her identity in the Isles. She wears the same costume as normal and kicks butt six ways from Sunday.
Ultimately villainside gives me new content, new enemies, new zones, and a different playstyle. Sure I get to bend the stories a little bit (Kidnapping becomes Rescue missions, planting bombs becomes disarming them, etc) so that my characters are, still, heroic in the in-character story.
But how is it a Cop-out if i simply don't enjoy playing Villainous Characters? Should I ignore almost half of the game for the sake of enjoying Heroic characters...?
-Rachel-
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No, you should make a concept that fits the game rather than awkwardly jamming in something different for the sake of itself. As Sam says, it's a hilarious cop-out, and gets absolutely pathetic when you start actively rewriting content to fit a concept. You're no longer taking part in the storyline, you're just god moding - selectively choosing the bits that support your concept and ignoring everything else.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
But how is it a Cop-out if i simply don't enjoy playing Villainous Characters? Should I ignore almost half of the game for the sake of enjoying Heroic characters...? |
But hey-ho, I know the type. No point arguing beyond that.
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So, in your opinion, I should|
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
No, you should make a concept that fits the game rather than awkwardly jamming in something different for the sake of itself. As Sam says, it's a hilarious cop-out, and gets absolutely pathetic when you start actively rewriting content to fit a concept. You're no longer taking part in the storyline, you're just god moding - selectively choosing the bits that support your concept and ignoring everything else.
But hey-ho, I know the type. No point arguing beyond that. |
A) Play the game and not enjoy it
or
B) Not play villainside whatsoever
Am i correct in this? Huh...
-Rachel-
See, some of us believe game mechanics are just game mechanics, and (should) have nothing to do with roleplay. It's easy to play a hero red side. Most of the missions you're given are to beat up bad guys, after all. It's easy to skip the ones that aren't, and ignore contacts like Phipps.
It's extra-trivial for my zombie mastermind, since he can even do things like mayhems... "Drea the Hook sent me to take the money the bad people have in the vault here. Drea's nice to me, so I know he wouldn't send me to do something bad. He told me these guys cheated lots of people out of their money and got rich doing it, and it's only right that we take it away and give it to the people who really need it!"
I've never had a team that didn't find this hilarious and play along 
I do. My main brute is a good Oni who was summoned and bound to the Isles by the CoT. He has been looking for a way out from the beginning. Currently he resides in Cim and RWZ aiding his fellow heroes fight the evil there. As soon as GR gets here, he will find a way to Paragon City where he belongs.
Types of Swords
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Really? Have you ever played a Role Playing game beyond a computerized one? Hey, ever read a book? Some very popular characters ( Drizzt Do'urden comes to mind, Kyler from the Night Angel books) are good people in an evil society. I think it takes more imagination to play against the set norm, than to be a conformist to someone else story. The Devs even understand this, and are giving us a method to play it out in their sandbox. |
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
No, you should make a concept that fits the game rather than awkwardly jamming in something different for the sake of itself. As Sam says, it's a hilarious cop-out, and gets absolutely pathetic when you start actively rewriting content to fit a concept. You're no longer taking part in the storyline, you're just god moding - selectively choosing the bits that support your concept and ignoring everything else.
But hey-ho, I know the type. No point arguing beyond that. |
Also, according to my Gaia addicted daughter, God-modding is using your actions to force actions on anotehr character. I.E. I hit you, and you fall down.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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I think the way Sam and Poptart (and myself) see it is that say it is a PnP tabletop RPG. Now let's say your GM has decided to put together an evil campaign where the PCs will be villains, or at the very least mercs that sit somewhere on the fence. Are you going to be the odd one to defy the GM's setting by making the single Lawful Good Paladin in a party of merciless cutthroats?
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Really? Have you ever played a Role Playing game beyond a computerized one? Hey, ever read a book? Some very popular characters ( Drizzt Do'urden comes to mind, Kyler from the Night Angel books) are good people in an evil society. I think it takes more imagination to play against the set norm, than to be a conformist to someone else story. The Devs even understand this, and are giving us a method to play it out in their sandbox.
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Recluse and Tyrant will become best buddies for sure then |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Well, there's the Rogue Isles Police, and presumably Arachnos as the ruling government have a "justice" system of their own. Likely run by the Arbiters, similar to Stalin's Commissars. And I'm not trying to open up a can of worms here. Recluse's Rogue Isles really is modelled after a cross between a communist and a fascist state.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Say it is a PnP game. And the DM decides he wants to run an all Evil campaign. And I tell him I don't want to play in it because I'm not comfortable being an evil character. Either he'll back down from his idea because, as a friend, he doesn't want to exclude me from the game -or- he'll tell me not to show up for the next session.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
I think the way Sam and Poptart (and myself) see it is that say it is a PnP tabletop RPG. Now let's say your GM has decided to put together an evil campaign where the PCs will be villains, or at the very least mercs that sit somewhere on the fence. Are you going to be the odd one to defy the GM's setting by making the single Lawful Good Paladin in a party of merciless cutthroats?
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Either way the analogy doesn't QUITE fit. Since the players I play with generally prefer the hero in the isles style as well. So it's really more like the Midnight campaign setting for 3rd edition. If you haven't heard of it you should look into it! It's a lot of fun in a strange, light in the darkness way.
And yes. Godmoding tends to be the "My character is immune to telepathy and also has *giant list of powers that even a level 50 doesn't normally have* And can make your character die instantly/fall in love with my character/other random BS." As opposed to playing the game as I like to play it.
Alternately you could cast me in the role of GM leading the party along through altered exposition, which I do a lot of. "Eh. I don't like the plot of this adventure. I'll spice it up for my group, though the encounters work perfectly".
-Rachel-
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There's a City of Heroes just over there where you play heroes and not villains.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Say it is a PnP game. And the DM decides he wants to run an all Evil campaign. And I tell him I don't want to play in it because I'm not comfortable being an evil character. Either he'll back down from his idea because, as a friend, he doesn't want to exclude me from the game -or- he'll tell me not to show up for the next session.
Either way the analogy doesn't QUITE fit. Since the players I play with generally prefer the hero in the isles style as well. So it's really more like the Midnight campaign setting for 3rd edition. If you haven't heard of it you should look into it! It's a lot of fun in a strange, light in the darkness way. |
And in any case, Going Rogue will be bringing darker heroes who will be taking the fight directly to the Rogue Isles. There will also be lighter villains with a conscience who can perform heroics in Paragon City. There will also be complete face heel and heel face turns.
Otherwise you're just the oddball self-proclaimed paladin in a party of blackguards.
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But that isn't what CoV is. By it's very nature (we pay to play with no real in game GM) it can't be. I played in an all Sabbat Vamp larp, and there were STILL some secret Cam characters. In a game of this scope and size all of the players will never fit into the same mold. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
I think the way Sam and Poptart (and myself) see it is that say it is a PnP tabletop RPG. Now let's say your GM has decided to put together an evil campaign where the PCs will be villains, or at the very least mercs that sit somewhere on the fence. Are you going to be the odd one to defy the GM's setting by making the single Lawful Good Paladin in a party of merciless cutthroats?
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Play the game the way you like, and let others play it their way. Then don't talk crap to them for doing it. Especially when it is something as small as how THEY view their character, AND when the Devs recognize this as a common view, and are putting a system in game (Side switching) to cover it.
Some people just don't like being evil, but like the CoV ATs better. Me, I do have evil charcters, but they don't think they are evil, they thing they are right
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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So yeah. "Play the game like I think it should be played or don't play at all"|
Originally Posted by Scythus
There's a City of Heroes just over there where you play heroes and not villains.
And in any case, Going Rogue will be bringing darker heroes who will be taking the fight directly to the Rogue Isles. There will also be lighter villains with a conscience who can perform heroics in Paragon City. There will also be complete face heel and heel face turns. Otherwise you're just the oddball self-proclaimed paladin in a party of blackguards. |
Not gonna happen, Hon. And looking down your nose at me for it just makes you look elitist.
-Rachel-
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It seems more like an allowance of a character development tool rather than Mr. Paladin schmoozing with blackguards.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Play the game the way you like, and let others play it their way. Then don't talk crap to them for doing it. Especially when it is something as small as how THEY view their character, AND when the Devs recognize this as a common view, and are putting a system in game (Side switching) to cover it.
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And there it is, and all it is. IF it makes the game more fun for me to think of My Oni as good, and stuck in a bad place, then great. I may have ended up SOL and trapped in the isles |
Originally Posted by Scythus
It seems more like an allowance of a character development tool rather than Mr. Paladin schmoozing with blackguards.
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The game is meant to be fun. IF our version of fun is harmless to others, ignore it.
Types of Swords
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Y'know. there's no Secret identities in the game, according to the code. So all of your heroes have no secret identities, right? Villains, too? Oh! Wait! It's the Statesman method of Secret identities, i bet! You log off to the real world and are the alter-ego of all your characters.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
It seems more like an allowance of a character development tool rather than Mr. Paladin schmoozing with blackguards.
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If you alter the story on how that works you're ignoring the canon, after all.... Right...?
Also! My Redside heroes don't Schmooze with villains. they fight them. USUALLY NPC villains, but when player villains get involved with my characters I do (on RARE occasion) go into PvP.
-Rachel-
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Alternate costume slots. Booya.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Y'know. there's no Secret identities in the game, according to the code.
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No alternate name slots. Even as Mild Mannered "Tim Daly of Jamestown" you still have "SuperDudeMan" floating over your head.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Alternate costume slots. Booya.
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-Rachel-
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That's what the bio has been for. I almost always put a civilian name in there. It's not perfect, but it allows for an input of a secret identity along with the super secret origin story regardless. |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
No alternate name slots. Even as Mild Mannered "Tim Daly of Jamestown" you still have "SuperDudeMan" floating over your head.
-Rachel- |
However, the profile info on the Going Rogue site makes me wonder if they're going to be improving that layout. You'll note they list things like secret identities with the other details like archetype and origin and powersets.
Ironically, he's one of my most unquestionably evil villains