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Is anyone reading what I'm saying? |
Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
What if my character isn't the sort of person to give a **** about "permission"? I mean, if I'm 14 and can't have a license yet, but my mom has a heart attack and I do know how to drive... I'm going to drive to the hospital, right? Illegal or not, I'm gonna do it.
I mean seriously... You're honestly suggesting that my fire blaster knows all those powers, but isn't using them because he's not authorized? Screw that. If that were the case we'd still have the powers, but we'd have to deal with Longbow or PPD ambushes for using them. Your analogy just does not fly. |
You learn a NEW ability. You did NOT HAVE THE ABILITY BEFORE. You go to a trainer to have it added to your frigging license AFTER you learn it.
Hell, maybe they have a way to ENFORCE you not using unauthorized powers without sending Longbow after you. Like, oh, I dunno, your hospital teleport beacon having a power dampener built in that prevents you from using powers beyond what you're authorized to use? Or does THAT not make sense either? Kind of like needing a voice authorization to start your car. Can't drive if the car won't start now, can you?
For all we know, being a vigilante means you are an unregistered, unlicensed hero and have to level up a different way.
Does it REALLY matter? It's a mechanic in a video game. You talk to a trainer to level up so you're not adding powers on the fly during battle. It gives you time to think about it more so you don't make a stupid decision and take Flurry because you needed a melee attack at the time.
I'm not the one that insisted that it HAS to make sense.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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City of Villains is that-a-way. You'd actually have a much easier way to argue the sense of having trainers there.
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Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
What if my character isn't the sort of person to give a **** about "permission"?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Thank you, Sam, for supporting my point in a roundabout way.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Villains is that-a-way. You'd actually have a much easier way to argue the sense of having trainers there.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Well considering the argument applies to both sides... I didn't know we were discussing one half of the game and ignoring the other half arbitrarily...
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You know. If you go to RWZ, you can avoid seeing a Abirter all together, and train with the vanguard trainer |
Originally Posted by Afterimage
I've played two villains to 50, I've got quite a few up to the 30's. I don't really like being a villain. I don't like the villain contacts, story arcs or roles. I don't like the villains zones except for Port Oakes which is quaint, and St Martial, because I like neon at night.
I don't know that I would mind being a villain as much if I had any choices in the matter. I can only portray my villains as lackeys, errand boys, mercenaries, etc. I can't be the archvillain, because every story has me doing chores for someone else. Heroes work for the greater good, and don't mind filling requests from their contacts, but villains should be more arrogant, working for another should annoy them. I sure does annoy me red side. I wouldn't mind being a gritty hero cleaning up the Rogue Isles single handed, but I would have to avoid contacts and mayhem missions, and be very selective about newspaper missions. I would mostly street sweep to 50, and that would get dull fast. So while I considered it, I didn't do it. But I really do prefer the villain archetypes to most of the heroic types. I only like Blasters and Scrappers. I play more Tankers than Scrappers simply because I prefer the power sets available. Hate the low damage. Can't get into Defenders or Controllers at all. And I'm tired of waiting for Going Rogue to come out. A few weeks ago, I had an idea that should occupy me until GR is out. I created five new villains, one per archetype and origin. I gave them all similar back stories. Most of them began life in the Rogue Isles, trapped into working for an evil organization. Each of them either had or developed moral objections to what that organization is doing. Each of them fled the organization, adopting a new costume and name to hide from the agents of that organization. And each of them has chosen to hide in the AE building, running heroic mission simulations to train their powers so that when the evil organization that is searching for them finds them, they will be strong enough to defend themselves. My natural origin stalker is hiding from a clan of ninjas after refusing to kill. My tech origin brute is hiding from Crey, after breaking free of brainwashing. (Yeah, Crey is part owner of AE, but the brute is in disguise.) My science origin mastermind was a chemist making Superdine for the Family, before fleeing and taking her group of friends. My mutant origin corrupter is hiding out from the Malta group. Weak back story here, as I've never seen a Malta agents as mutants but I wanted to make a dual pistol/kinetic corrupter and Malta has those teleporting gunslingers... My magic origin dominator is hiding from the Circle of Thorns. Character concept aside, playing Heroic missions in AE with villain ATs has been a lot of fun. I tend to forget that I'm playing villains, except when I have to visit an arbiter to level up. |
OR! Wait a couple of levels between training, and hit up War Witch in Pocket D.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
As someone who's played the heroic character in CoV.
There's the always "I write my own story" and anything I do with others outside of that story (like SFs for leveling/badges) is all OOC.
Or, on my last attempt, trying to stick more with the in game cannon, ignore alot of things!
Run away from the Longbow! I've found I can generally ignore them if I really want too. More so, if you join Vanguard at lvl 35.
The hard part, that I'd likely believe most who play the Hero in the Isles bit would want to do...is stay out of GV!
There's a reason you only see Longbow on the outside of that fort!
Pretty much anywhere else, it's not hard to sneak into. But Grandville?! No hero is going to sneak in there.
Undercover agent? Quite possible, you really think Recluse didn't see you coming from a mile away?
Here's another one with a little bit of possible handwaving...
Recluse knows your a hero! He knows you're playing the part of the hero in his Isles. But you're still following his one rule in the process...survival of the fittest.
Those Arachnos patrols attack everyone! Longbow, they're shoot first ask questions later types to begin with.
Recluse himself see's you as a destined one, he just has to turn you to his side.
...but again...unless you're going to go against all of cannon in general, going in and out of GV as a hero is near impossible. And to do it ona regular basis? Pffft. To do otherwise just assumes the biggest baddest in villain in all of CoX is an idiot (which people may think anyways, but in game cannon is not the case).
I was actually working on a hero in the Isles who I'd never have go to GV. It was going to be a bit harder to level up, but the SG fell to pieces, as well, it was a side project,and my side projects seem to always fail as I spend most of my time with my SG.
That said, I've found it's pretty easy to play the Black Cat/Cat Woman type hero/villain type Redside.
My Elec/Thermal Corr, falls into that category. She's not a murderer, but she's a thrillseeker, professional theif, sugar junkie, and part time hero rolled into one.
She'll be perfect for GR.
As for the Longbow, as a whole, one can assume, they're a good group. But the Longbow are one thing...MASSIVE. Comics will teach you one thing, Massive hero groups always have a darker side.
I actually use that as the basis of my main. Created to be a weapon in human form, by the Longbow. Good thing for the Longbow, she only has bits and pieces of her memory (amnesia), along with one of her sisters (there's 3 of them, triplets), and the other isn't talking (and was also snatched by Arachnos as they escaped from the Longbow).
So I obviously like the idea of Longbow having a darker side underneath it all, even if it's not known through the organization, maybe not even by some of it's top figure heads.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I actually completely neglected to think about it, but yes - Arbiters as trainers CoV-side makes no sense. CoH-side, I can kind of see heroes reporting to a trainer to ensure they're using their powers responsibly, but villains? What, do I need a permission slip from Arbiter Fabulous in order to shoot my rifle in short bursts? It's bad enough that we constantly kowtow to Arachnos, and we don't really WANT to use our powers responsibly as villains, so to seek their permission is borderline insulting.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Thank you, Sam, for supporting my point in a roundabout way.
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But that's a problem with all of CoV and how pervasive Arachnos is. They break us out, we use their Quartermasters, train at their Arbiteters, alter our difficulty at their Fateweavers and follow our destiny as THEY describe it. Ugh... One only hopes Going Rogue will be less restrictive.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Actually, it kind of makes sense when you think about the fact that the faction you supposedly work for is constantly attacking you on sight.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I actually completely neglected to think about it, but yes - Arbiters as trainers CoV-side makes no sense. CoH-side, I can kind of see heroes reporting to a trainer to ensure they're using their powers responsibly, but villains? What, do I need a permission slip from Arbiter Fabulous in order to shoot my rifle in short bursts? It's bad enough that we constantly kowtow to Arachnos, and we don't really WANT to use our powers responsibly as villains, so to seek their permission is borderline insulting.
But that's a problem with all of CoV and how pervasive Arachnos is. They break us out, we use their Quartermasters, train at their Arbiteters, alter our difficulty at their Fateweavers and follow our destiny as THEY describe it. Ugh... One only hopes Going Rogue will be less restrictive. |
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Yeah, there is that, too. I mean, I wouldn't exactly rejoice if we were fully committed into Arachnos, but I'd still understand it if their forces in the overworld were friendly towards us. I mean, we ARE working for them. It'd suck, but it would still make sense. But since they attack us on sight even though we use all of their amenities and try to kill us on the way to saving their bases... No, it doesn't make sense. And I'd rather force it to make sense by dissociating us from Arachnos, if I had the choice.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Actually, it kind of makes sense when you think about the fact that the faction you supposedly work for is constantly attacking you on sight.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Pfft. Who's sneaking into Grandville? When I go there I beat the crap out of every Arachnos agent that gets in my way, and Recluse is forted up with his strongest minions because only an idiot would give up that advantage. So if I don't go into his HQ looking for him he's wise not to come out looking for me.
Especially since I can tank him
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I suppose that would be me. After ll, I'm the one that brought up flat ignoring it's presence (to my own characters at least) as a comparison to ignoring the little mission start windows that are the ONLY things in CoV that actually tell you that your character has no ulterior motives, he really is doing it for the evuls. I brought that up because I wanted to point out that it's not that much bigger a leap to ignore those when you're already hand waving eighty to eighty five percent of how the game actually works already.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I'm not the one that insisted that it HAS to make sense.
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And even the bit about Trainers actually being Registrars is hand waving, because that's not how the game presents it. They're not LETTING you use you're powers, they don't have a Gym for you to practice in, you walk up to them and they tell you if you wiggle your toes a certain way, you can get the ice you're throwing to encase some enemies.
However, at this point I've already decided that continuing ANY part of this argument is pointless. The person who really started it by saying there is no reason to play a decent person in the Rogue Isles has been given reasons. He's even accepted those reasons, yet he still rejects the idea. At this point, it's talking to a brick wall. And largely pointless besides, since no one needs his permission to play against type. And much like how D&D groups will often have the one evil aligned character in a mostly good team, there will always be people who want to play against type, whatever that type may be.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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I'm talking about the in game cannon wise. |
Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
Pfft. Who's sneaking into Grandville? When I go there I beat the crap out of every Arachnos agent that gets in my way, and Recluse is forted up with his strongest minions because only an idiot would give up that advantage. So if I don't go into his HQ looking for him he's wise not to come out looking for me.
Especially since I can tank him |
If you follow in game cannon, no matter how powerfulyou are, it takes alot of work for a hero to get into GV (the fort part, not the wasteland around it).
And tanking him was hard? My WP/EM tanked him without support, and my ILL/RAD tanked him (you have to love perma PA!
) and that was while he was all buffed up by towers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I do have a super strength shield brute that is a hero...he will be switching sides for sure with GR...I had given up on brutes after leveling a fire/fire to 50 a year ago as I found it tough...I think it was because I had just leveled a fire/fire tank to 50 and found that easier...
So I decided I needed to find a brute set I would like to play and he was a blast....he definitely made me rethink my "Never play a brute again" stance...I still dust him off now and then for fun....
"A great love is alot like a good memory. When it's there and you know it's there,but it's just out of your reach. It can be all that you think about. You can focus on it and try to force it but the more you do, the more you seem to push it away. But if you're patient and hold still...maybe...just maybe...it will come to you. I just need to be somewhere she can find me" - Church from Red vs Blue
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Perhaps the Arbiters want to see a display of your power and like a typical gloating villain with an ego the size of a planet, you show it to them? (Most likely not taking into account that they're probably reporting your progress to Recluse directly.)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I actually completely neglected to think about it, but yes - Arbiters as trainers CoV-side makes no sense. CoH-side, I can kind of see heroes reporting to a trainer to ensure they're using their powers responsibly, but villains? What, do I need a permission slip from Arbiter Fabulous in order to shoot my rifle in short bursts? It's bad enough that we constantly kowtow to Arachnos, and we don't really WANT to use our powers responsibly as villains, so to seek their permission is borderline insulting.
But that's a problem with all of CoV and how pervasive Arachnos is. They break us out, we use their Quartermasters, train at their Arbiteters, alter our difficulty at their Fateweavers and follow our destiny as THEY describe it. Ugh... One only hopes Going Rogue will be less restrictive. |
Doctor Brainstorm.
That's right, I'm opening that can of worms!
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No reason I can't consider my toon to be able to whoop Recluse or States, which would make him stronger than any other character in the game world, and therefore what applies to them may not apply to him.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I'm talking about the in game cannon wise.
If you follow in game cannon, no matter how powerfulyou are, it takes alot of work for a hero to get into GV (the fort part, not the wasteland around it). And tanking him was hard? My WP/EM tanked him without support, and my ILL/RAD tanked him (you have to love perma PA! ) and that was while he was all buffed up by towers. |
Anyway, I didn't say it was hard to tank Recluse. My Shield tank can tank him solo with the towers on him. Aid self is awesome. Then again he can tank the other four signature AVs at the same time, so it's not that surprising.
My SS/Shield brute is essentially the redside version of that toon (Though his build was considerably more expensive) so it stands to reason he could do the same. When GR goes live, I'll have him tank the STF just for fun.
I've got a few villains with sympathetic pasts who try to be heroes when they can, even though they're stuck in such a bad situation.
On the other hand, one of my villains is a corporate punch-clock-hero who went full villain when he got fired.
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A sympathetic past is a hallmark of a villain. Example: Most of Batman's rogues gallery.
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I've got a few villains with sympathetic pasts who try to be heroes when they can, even though they're stuck in such a bad situation.
On the other hand, one of my villains is a corporate punch-clock-hero who went full villain when he got fired. |
Well for those of you actually interested -in- Hero in the Isles based Roleplay I'm starting a Supergroup on Virtue, Redside, called The SPEAR.
It stands for Supers Protecting the Etoille Against Ruin. In character we've got people lobbying for recruits in both Paragon and the Rogue Isles. Don't have a "Functional" base, yet, since we're just starting... But it involves being openly heroic in the Isles and seeking out allies to help defend yourself against Recluse's Revenge.
There's actually been some confusion over the "Might makes Right" Darwinian law of Recluse's. The fact is, YES, might makes right in the Isles. But he's the Mightiest and specifically -hates- heroes... So expect IC reprisals in the form of AE arcs and the like in which powerful Arachnos Agents or Destined Ones come after the Supergroup.
Contact @Steampunkette or @Dynama for more detailed info or questions!
-Rachel-
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Alternately you could cast me in the role of GM leading the party along through altered exposition, which I do a lot of. "Eh. I don't like the plot of this adventure. I'll spice it up for my group, though the encounters work perfectly". -Rachel- |
I want to join your teams, seriously.
As far as the trainer thing goes:
It's a game mechanic, nothing more.
You can explain it or hand wave it any way you want. The fact of it is, if you want your new power, you have to go click on an NPC standing in a visible area. The devs decided that they were going to approach leveling up in that way, and we as players have to deal with it if we want to advance past level 1.
I honestly never put that much thought into it until it was brought up in this thread. I just didn't care that I had to go click on an object in the game world that is designed to look like an NPC in order to gain a new power or more slots.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
OK, first off, I have to admit to not reading all 11 pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if this question was already asked.
I just made a redside hero today, and I want to RP her as much as a hero as I can, therefore I plan to avoid fighting Longbow and other heroic organizations. My question is, given the way the redside game mechanics work, is it possible to advance in the game without doing mayhem missions? If I just let them time out and fail them all, my brokers will still introduce me to new contacts, right?
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Yup.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
OK, first off, I have to admit to not reading all 11 pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if this question was already asked.
I just made a redside hero today, and I want to RP her as much as a hero as I can, therefore I plan to avoid fighting Longbow and other heroic organizations. My question is, given the way the redside game mechanics work, is it possible to advance in the game without doing mayhem missions? If I just let them time out and fail them all, my brokers will still introduce me to new contacts, right? |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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You could RP the mayhems into anti-villain objectives. You're going to rob a bank, but you're only going after safe deposit boxes known to be owned by criminals. The objects you break along the way (which is fun!) are marked with a certain criminal organization's emblem; you could ignore certain objects, like the trash bins, cars*, parking meters** , etc. Btw, when Prohibition started in the USA you can see newsreel footage of lawmen breaking containers holding alcoholic beverages so it's not without a real life precedent.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
OK, first off, I have to admit to not reading all 11 pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if this question was already asked.
I just made a redside hero today, and I want to RP her as much as a hero as I can, therefore I plan to avoid fighting Longbow and other heroic organizations. My question is, given the way the redside game mechanics work, is it possible to advance in the game without doing mayhem missions? If I just let them time out and fail them all, my brokers will still introduce me to new contacts, right? |
* or destroy only certain cars, or cars of a certain color, or trucks on any one particular mayhem as those belong to some criminal element.
** unless there's a criminal organization who gets the proceeds from parking meters, but then you MUST destroy every single one. That could be the true objective of a mayhem mission, the bank robbery is just a cover.
I have fought Longbow with my "heroic" villains, but it's a staged attack that I've secretly set up with Longbow beforehand; my attacks are not as lethal as they may appear, the LB agents are secretly better armored against my attacks (they take damage, but it's more superficial), and LB treat it as a training exercise as well.
You do have to fool your contacts once in awhile, as well as Arachnos.
He's not showing you HOW to do it. He's simply making sure that YOU know how to do it competently.
I look at it as like going to get a drivers license. The person riding in the car with you isn't teaching you how to drive, they're just making sure that you know how to do so wthin a certain criteria of safety. You can't just say "Hi, I know how to drive, can I have my license now?" and expect them to just hand you one.
Think about it. This is a city where people are given a license to be a hero. Do you REALLY think they're just going to take your word for it that you know what you're doing? No, they are going to make you pass some kind of test so they have documented proof that you can summon a being from the netherworld without innocent bystanders getting killed/eaten/sucked into the abyss because you did it wrong.
It is safe to assume that all the trainers are qualified to judge whether you are competent enough to use a power you developed on your own without endangering the public. A driving instructor doesn't necessarily have to know how to drive a manual transmission to be able to tell if you can or not, do they?
THAT'S way you go to a trainer to level up. It's not learning how to do stuff, it's to gain clearance to use your new abilities while you're out among the general public.
I mean seriously... You're honestly suggesting that my fire blaster knows all those powers, but isn't using them because he's not authorized? Screw that. If that were the case we'd still have the powers, but we'd have to deal with Longbow or PPD ambushes for using them.
Your analogy just does not fly.