The March 2010 FArt Battle

In the interests of not bumping this continually, I'm personally bowing out here...but I'm just curious.

If you have or had no problem with the rule, why even bother continuing to bring it up other than just to stir up trouble?

I think everyone is seriously ignoring the real rule problem... This whole having to do the art yourself is seriously stifling my creativity and artistic skills!! Where's the darn peanut gallery shouting about the real problem????

To put this in real perspective... 3 people total have complained to me about it, and 2 of them were never in the contest. So... yeah.

They're greatly outnumbered by the posts and PMs I've gotten supporting it.

In case i hasn't been said lately, thanks for doing this for us Wassy. It's a pain, and it's not easy, so it's appreciated.

I welcome all of those who are critical of these types of commnity projects to step up and run their own. It's far easier to critisize than to actually contribute.

Worst case senario, we'd actually have more fun contests and such running on here.

Good for all involved IMO.

Thanks very much, I appreciate every post/PM like that I get =)

I'm sure you and TA can attest to the fact that running this is surprisingly more work that it outwardly seems! I thought I had a pretty good idea of the work involved, but was way off on that one. But its quite worthwhile when I get to see all the interesting ways people use the themes.

I also now have new empathy for my professors for all the art projects they come up with @.@

Well if you ever want to teach the complainers what real enforcement is all about, just let me run the contest one year... I'll enforce rules that were never even stated!

You didn't reference another artist. You copied one. Just because you made minor adjustments in doing so doesn't mean that it's an original work based on reference. Seriously, would it kill you to actually draw something original? You wanted to reference Disney-fine. But you had to pause the screen and copy both the likeness and the pose? What are you bringing to the table? Take all the copying out of that picture--what's left?

The quality of my character is that I don't copy, steal, swipe from other artists when doing my art. I know how reference is actually used.

As for the contest, I'm not calling you out about that. It's not my contest, I couldn't care less. I'm just pointing to the big elephant in the room. And I don't mean to be unfair about it. When other forum posters have done it to the same degree, I'll take note of them too.

LOL I just saw your edit. Yes I used reference. I used about 5 different pieces of reference just for the rink. But I didn't copy a picture. You seriously don't understand the difference.

So, I see a picture, a photo, a person, a... whatever... and I draw what i see. I make changes if needed, and I don't lie about my use of reference.

And for that I get called a blatant cheater by Suichiro - and you back him up. But when you do it, it's ok, because you know how to do it.

Got it.

Nice to know that there's no double standard.

Perhaps you don't get it - so I'll post the OP for ya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wassy MARCH MADNESS So for March you get to play with the classic tale. I don't care if you use the original writings, the old Disney movie, some Miyuki-chan (my personal favorite, natch), the NEW movie.... whatever one of the many incarnations. You can either juxtapose CoH elements into Wonderland, or bring Wonderland elements into Paragon. All types of visual art are acceptable.

Those were the rules set out for the contest - but you don't seem to care about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrozenDeath As for the contest, I'm not calling you out about that. It's not my contest, I couldn't care less.

In fact, you don't care about this contest.

So it makes me wonder - why the need to keep chiming in? Is it because you think that I traced? No, you've already said it wasn't a trace. Is it because I used another artist's work? No, because there were numerous screen shot pieces that used other artists' work. So what is it then?

Could it be that both you and Suichiro have something personal against me? Possibly? I seem to recall Suichiro making it his mission to 'show me I'm not as good as I think I am' - or something to that effect.

This thread being locked and cleaned is a reminder of that
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...uichiro&page=8

But as to your assertions...

Quote:

Maybe if you did this in a professional context and got fired or sued as a result, you'd get it. You use reference to help improve the realism of your art, or to try to evoke a certain style. Not to absorb someone else's creative decisions.

People swipe poses in the industry all the time. Is Marvel or DC being shut down because of it?

Quote:

You decided to use the Disney style in you piece--so you directly copied a Disney character in a pose from a specific Disney moment. So much so that someone calls you out for it.

Right, and if you read the OP, it states that sourcing from the Disney movie is fine.

Quote:

I had to do a rink with skaters. I don't draw that sort of thing, so I looked at reference to see what a rink looks like and how skaters might be posed in order for the thing to look plausible. Guess what? Then I actually drew something based on what I wanted it to be like. I conformed to the conventions of the reference in some ways and changed it in others. People can look at mine and say that it looks like an ice rink. They can't look it it and say "hey, that looks like you copied Disney's ice rink from that one scene of that one Disney movie." It's truly amazing that you can't get the difference.

I had to draw a scene with a little girl falling through a magical rabbit hole. I don't usually draw that sort of thing, and I've never actually seen it, so I looked at references to see what it would look like. I conformed to the conventions of the reference in some ways and changed it in others. People can look at mine and watch the movie and say 'Hey, that looks pretty similar, but it's not the same. I tried to capture 2 minutes of the movie in one frame.

It's truly amazing that you don't see the similarities between what we both did.

In fact, I'm guessing that if anyone was to look at theFArt entries, you'd be able to spot numerous references used by many of the artists.
http://cityofheroes.deviantart.com/gallery/23928903

Are you trying to tell me that none of those people referenced or used any material from an outside source?

Come on, get real. You used it, and I have no doubt others used various references too. The degree to which people use the material may vary, and you may question how they used it, but it all comes down to opinion.

I may say that using a screen shot is a violation of the CoH artists' material - others may not (I personally have no objection to this).

I may say that you referencing the speed skating rink is in violation of the spirit of this contest - others will disagree (I voted for your piece, so I personally don' think that).

You may say that my piece looks exactly like the Disney film -others may disagree. You didn't vote for me, and you are not in this contest, so in the end, it's all just a matter of opinion.

You've called my work "completely devoid of creativity and ridiculously derivative of someone else work" and my line work sloppy. And that's your opinion.

I could now chime in and try to bash our work... but why? I really don't see the point in it.

I see this forum and these contests as a place to have some fun (thus the - 'for fun' header at the top of this forum), and am not into bashing other people's art here.

If that's what you enjoy doing... then that's your call.

Send "The Love Boat" Ringtone to your Cell


Love, exciting and new
Come Aboard. We're expecting you.
Love, life's sweetest reward.
Let it flow, it floats back to you.

Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure,
Your mind on a new romance.

Love won't hurt anymore
It's an open smile on a friendly shore.
Yes LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! It's LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! (hey-ah!)

Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure,
Your mind on a new romance.

Love won't hurt anymore
It's an open smile on a friendly shore.
It's LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! It's LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE! It's
LOOOOOOOOOOOVE!
It's the Love Boat-ah! It's the Love Boat-ah!

Gopher?

So.....do you all play the game much? I think I've only seen like 3 people from the art forum in the game. Actually, make that 4. I had a very brief encounter with JohnnyKat tonight in Sirens. He droned himself and laughed at me! Darnit, immunity could have been mine...

That depends LD what server do you play on?

One --> Artz Giveaway <-- To Rule Them ALL!

I will settle this. ORANGE FTW! - Ex Libris

DarkEther - I imagine I'm an Isaac but, yeah, I'm really a Gopher

Lousy day - Im on way too much but it's weird early mornings since I work overnights...

CR - if you're not on Virtue it doesn't really count

Juggy - I was going to go with Love Shack originally but decided the Boat had much better cheeseball appeal for tension breaking

And glad you pick an opening with Julie McCoy, not that Judy they tried passing off for a while!

I don't care about your art. I'm not out to bash it or pressure you into developing some skill set that I think you should have. Its simply that direct copying of someone else's work is art theft. I don't want to be ripped off. I don't want to see other artists ripped off. I don't want people who are getting into art to think that's acceptable. It's not.

For an artist, understanding the difference between using reference properly and just hacking someone else's work is fundamental.

I can't believe we're going to probably get another thread Mod-jacked over the same stuff that got the last one Modded.

So much for the supposed friendliest section of the forums...<sigh>

Its not entirely useless discussion, but DE does have a point. All the March submissions are in and voted for, etc. so its not a HUGE deal, but keep in mind these threads need to stay open during active months. Once it gets this far off topic, can it be moved to its own thread?

Like this?

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5...eedskating.jpg