Those are stock images from another artist - your pose looks exactly like the one in the middle, but with the feet pointing down. If you say you didn't use it, well, so be it. You've claimed you used numerous references for the rink, and now you claim to use other references for the girl. How many more references are you going to reveal? Are you going to list/post up every reference you used for all of your entries? Do you expect others do to the same?
Again, I voted for your piece and I'm not wanting to change that vote knowing that you used references. I expected you to use references in a piece like that.
When I get back I'll dig up all the reference I used for that piece if you want. I looked up images on speedskating, not stock inline skating pics.
The point is not that you shouldn't use reference. The point is that you did not use reference--you copied. There is a difference, which you refuse to acknowledge.
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"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
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What's really sad is that either you or your counterpart feel the need to constantly regurgitate the same tired comments, hijack threads, and belittle others to make yourselves feel impotent.|
Originally Posted by Suichiro
It's really sad.
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I'm sure I'm not the only one that's turned off by it and tired of seeing it.
Are you an artist? Do you do anything to educate people about art? Do you have any stake in people copying the work of other people and using it for their own?
I do. I'm tired and turned off by seeing people inappropriately take things. And you can drop that counterpart jazz. Suichi has his viewpoint, and I have mine, and we clearly agree on some things and are vocal about it. All I can see you doing here is cheerleading.
And complaining about threadjacking? You're from Protector. Give me a break.
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"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
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An artist, no I am not. We are all aware of your opinion, and that people who aren't artist shouldn't have one.|
Originally Posted by FrozenDeath
Are you an artist? Do you do anything to educate people about art? Do you have any stake in people copying the work of other people and using it for their own?
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| I do. I'm tired and turned off by seeing people inappropriately take things. And you can drop that counterpart jazz. Suichi has his viewpoint, and I have mine, and we clearly agree on some things and are vocal about it. All I can see you doing here is cheerleading. |
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| And complaining about threadjacking? You're from Protector. Give me a break. |
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Do you mind quoting a source there red as personally your either quoting me because to my knowledge im honestly one of the few folks here that have no intrest in crits from folks that can't be bothered to draw or post art .|
Originally Posted by Red Valkyrja
An artist, no I am not. We are all aware of your opinion, and that people who aren't artist shouldn't have one.
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Juggs prefers real crits on actual art sites from art contemporaries
suichi loves crits and thinks no one is above them
BW well im failing to find him posting what you just posted so either you pulled it out of your rear or your misquoting .
Hi guys! What's going on here?
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The post was a reply to a comment by another, and was likely before the forum swap.|
Originally Posted by Deebs
Do you mind quoting a source there red as personally your either quoting me because to my knowledge im honestly one of the few folks here that have no intrest in crits from folks that can't be bothered to draw or post art .
Juggs prefers real crits on actual art sites from art contemporaries suichi loves crits and thinks no one is above them BW well im failing to find him posting what you just posted so either you pulled it out of your rear or your misquoting . |
Now that you bring it up, it may have been your comment and that I have attributed it towards FD, if that is the case the I apologize to him.
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You will note good Sir Shia that I have stayed clear of discussing the rule that I despise so i've been on my best behavior .|
Originally Posted by Toxic_Shia
Hi guys! What's going on here?
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As near as I can tell Juggy may or may not have traced something and BW and Suichi may or may not be discussing it with him and Red belives that if you don't draw then you may or may not be allowed to post . but the initial discussion may or may not be someone elses ability or inability to remain consistent with a rule im not allowed to discuss I think juggy may or may not have tried to play the white knight card and may or may not have said something to the effect that if your not in a particular contest your not allowed to post oponions but im honestly not sure .I think red may or maynot think that suichi and BW are in a nonstandard catholic relationship as he's refered to them as counterparts or partners he might have meant it differently but I took it to mean that suich and BW are making mad mad art lovins or possiably red and BW were once a couple then after a harsh break up he bears bitterness for the love those two share , possiably as a outside idea Red has feelings for juggs or maybe not and hopes that by playing a white knight he can sink into the warm tattoed man embrace of juggs the squelchy sounds of their love like music to mine ears .
me im just watching a innocent bystander to these proceedings or not
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Originally Posted by Deebs
suich and BW are making mad mad art lovins or
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You heard it here folks - new Art Lovins powerset in i-17! Yay!
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| Other than commenting about the incessant elitist attitude, I don't see any "cheerleading' in my post above. |
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What's really sad is that either you or your counterpart feel the need to constantly regurgitate the same tired comments, hijack threads, and belittle others to make yourselves feel impotent. Quote:
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If the perceived elitism centers around my take on how Juggertha uses "reference", fine I'm elitist. It's wrong.
I mentioned Protector because I'm from Protector and the threadjacking was so bad there that Ex Libris had to come in and make a thread specifically for threadjacking.
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"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
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Originally Posted by Deebs
You will note good Sir Shia that I have stayed clear of discussing the rule that I despise so i've been on my best behavior .
As near as I can tell Juggy may or may not have traced something and BW and Suichi may or may not be discussing it with him and Red belives that if you don't draw then you may or may not be allowed to post . but the initial discussion may or may not be someone elses ability or inability to remain consistent with a rule im not allowed to discuss I think juggy may or may not have tried to play the white knight card and may or may not have said something to the effect that if your not in a particular contest your not allowed to post oponions but im honestly not sure .I think red may or maynot think that suichi and BW are in a nonstandard catholic relationship as he's refered to them as counterparts or partners he might have meant it differently but I took it to mean that suich and BW are making mad mad art lovins or possiably red and BW were once a couple then after a harsh break up he bears bitterness for the love those two share , possiably as a outside idea Red has feelings for juggs or maybe not and hopes that by playing a white knight he can sink into the warm tattoed man embrace of juggs the squelchy sounds of their love like music to mine ears . me im just watching a innocent bystander to these proceedings or not |
So succinct, Deebs. How were you able to get into so few words.
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DE im sneaking off to that other forum till the heat of the man/man lovins dies down but shame on you good sir for not having a suitable banner in your sig !!
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Originally Posted by DarkEther
You heard it here folks - new Art Lovins powerset in i-17! Yay!
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Originally Posted by Deebs
DE im sneaking off to that other forum till the heat of the man/man lovins dies down but shame on you good sir for not having a suitable banner in your sig !!
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I'm a rebel like that.
My Deviant Art page link-link
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you say rebel but your cute eyed puss in boots avatar says otherwise !!
Hey, if you can pretend to be an innocent bystander, I can pretend to be a devil-may-care rogue. Lol! 
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
so what ref did juggy use for his "Ms Liberty Naughty Pictures" image.. ??
..err.. my question is purely for information on the matter, and in now way is an attempt for me to find a pic of a half-nude women with her pantys around her legs..
*sob*.. ok, I admit it.. I wanna see the chick with the pantys around her legs :*(
..err.. sense where on the "hot chick" rule... when can we draw pics of nude women..
and maybe make alt pictures with like black boxs on the good parts for censering and using for posting on this forum?...
I think if you do a Google search for nude women you might get a hit or two.
My Deviant Art page link-link
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theres PORN on the internet??..
oh my god!!.. *runs off*..
...
..
.
*runs back to get some tube socks and then runs off again*
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I don't think I can best that one Tart , so im gonna bow out and yield the field to you sir .
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Originally Posted by Tartyrsause
theres PORN on the internet??..
oh my god!!.. *runs off*.. ... .. . *runs back to get some tube socks and then runs off again* |
Reasonable, intelligent and civilized discussion is not possible here. Have a Barney instead:
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It's not my job to educate you or anybody else about art. As a member of this community I try to share what I've learned with others, as well as sharing my viewpoint. That's what makes it a community as opposed to a simple gallery space. I arrive at my "position of authority" when you paint me out as a bully, rather than addressing the issues or just letting things go.| FrozenDeath, if you think that it is your job to educate the people about art on this forum, I have to ask; who gave you that position? I don’t remember agreeing to the terms of service with the clause ‘some anonymous poster will be your art teacher whenever you post in this section of the forums’. You may think you know a lot, and that might be true, but I’m curious as to how you arrived at your position of authority. |
As a matter of principle I don't comment on your art. In this thread I'm not calling you out because I don't like your art, I'm making an issue of the fact that flat out copied someone. As is your MO, you're painting this to be a personal issue; it's not, if I saw you take someone's wallet I would have an ethical responsibility to comment on that as well. This forum is for fun. That doesn't mean that you leave legal and ethical issues at the door when you come in.
To anyone still reading this: imagine you created something and then someone copied it without your permission and used it in their own work. How would that make you feel? This actually happens quite a lot on DA and it's grounds for having the work removed and the copier's account banned. Food for thought.
Like I said earlier, when I return I will take the time to make a post with examples comparing different ways of using reference vs. copying. It will be a constructive post and if anyone disagrees with the rationale expressed they can feel free to chime in.
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I admit this thread may have gotten a bit out of hand. I made a choice a long time ago when I saw threads spiral to avoid posting on these forums. However, as time went by I was convinced that even though there is some ugliness, I pay for my accounts and have a right to participate here too. With that said, as soon as I started posting inevitably I got what felt like targeted too...
It does suck that old arguments creep back into new posts, but apparently that is just human nature. I can understand you're feeling of being targeted Juggertha by a Suich and FrozenDeath, however they have posted some very valid points that throughout this whole thread you have still not seemingly considered. Their fundemental argument is that you "copy" as opposed to "reference" other artworks. You seem to juxtapose copy for reference. Having a life model, photos or even silhouettes of clipart to look at for positioning or lighting is one thing, but literally stopping frames to draw/copy nearly identically (or to the best of your abilities) and turn around and say you "referenced" the image is simply inaccurate.
Yes, this is a "for fun" thread. But seriously, it is important to know (and this isn't meant to continue spreading ugliness) but when you use forums like this to sell your services for commissioned work, and you present yourself as an authority...then you better know the difference between copying and reference. In addition, be prepared to catch some aggro since you placed yourself outside of the "for fun" category when you chose to use these forums as a means of promoting/selling services.
Now technically speaking, your over-all composition was original from what I can tell for March and I have no problems with it even though you positioned copied images. You mentioned "screenshots" in your argument, which I assumed passively targeted me and others. Again, the POINT of this is that I am not claiming I "referenced" I know what I drew and what I copied/positioned and painted over to make an "original composition" and I am not trying to hide anything. In fact for my submission, that was the intended goal - I wanted it to have a game-art feel/look to it yet still have a painterly style with the end result being an original composition.
Hence, there in lies the fundemental issue at hand. Call it what it is and know the difference. Artist are typically sensitive to what is original and what is not and are pretty cool with whatever you do as long as you're honest with presenting it/classifying it and move on. But, if an artist continues to argue against what is typically common sense perceptions...there in lies the recipe for a pretty heated debate which this turned into. One side note, I can see the Rob Liefeld correlation but (I cringe saying this) Rob did copy a lot of poses, but he at least changed the character. For example he swopped from a GI JOE cover of Roadblock and replaced it with Cable. In his defense he at least used a different character and costume (sorta), but in the rabbit argument, it is literally the same image sans the umbrella which I figure you just didn't feel like drawing in.
Anyways, I have posted before I liked your work Juggertha and it has a professional/polished look in my eyes. So I hope that my 2 cents worth above doesn't fuel the fire so much as just add in the perspective of an outsider (who happens to be a professional).
One final thought, I do find commentary/critiques (even if perceived ugly) can be fairly constructive for us artist. It may be of value to start a "Critique Only" thread for when occasions such as this one arises, that way individuals who feel a thread got jacked may not feel that way and they can avoid threads where commentary may be ugly/heated. Just a thought...
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So much bickering...
You all should kiss and make up.
Then draw me...
yeah.
thats a good plan.
*nods*
LOL, why don't you just wait till I get back and make the post. I'll have examples that cover flat out copying of other people's work ala Juggy.
The image posted above is just so weird. It's like..is this guy trying to just cloud the issue or does he simply not get it at all. You're apparently thinking I used reference for that figure--which is not the case because so much of his body is obscured by other characters, it wasn't really necessary. I used more reference for the woman.
Then you have 3 darkened sillhouettes of...in-line skaters. Which don't match the figure in the picture anyway. And if you had done that, I wouldn't have made an issue of it anyway since you would have had to draw the actual details of the figure.
To answer your question: no, not like that. More like someone pausing their video and copying another artists drawing. That sort of thing.
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