New Epic Rewards...since i17 takes mine away.

So, I read the new announcement about I17, Dark Mirror. Mostly really cool stuff. But, I did notice that with it, people will gain the ability to create "EPIC" archetypes after only reaching level 20. Even before AE and the power-leveling madness that ensued, it was not hard at ALL to reach 20 in a single day. But 50 on the other hand took some work. Especially the 40's range, which anyone who was around then will attest to, was the hardest leveling stretch in the game. BUT, we persevered. We worked. We toiled. And after all of this, we were rewarded with the fruits of our labor, EPIC archetypes. A symbol of persistence and patience. Simply walking across the street on your Warshade or Peacebringer demanded authority. Anyone who saw you knew what it took for you to get where you are.

And now, that SAME reward will be given to someone who very well just got the game, got hooked up with a team for some fast xp, and hits 20 day 1, and makes a kheldian. I'm sorry, but what exactly is epic about that? I mean, they're called EPIC archetypes for a reason. It's supposed to mean something. Not just handed out on a whim, because some newbie is whining that its too hard to get to 50.... What's next? Start giving out 2 year vet rewards after a month of play? Maybe make a booster pack for $9.99 that sells vet rewards early.... hey, anything for more money right? Who cares about the people who actually EARNED the rewards...

So, I'm expecting that since the glory and honor of our efforts is being flushed down the toilet, there is going to be some sort of substantial new bonus for those who have reached the pinnacle of effort in the game, correct? It is a real shame that something as great and wonderful as most of Issue 17 appears to be has to be ruined by such a foolishly stupid decision to include this in it.

I hope this post will be taken seriously, and not just a hate bashing note. I'm just fed up with decisions like this being made in games that seems to take no regard to the veteran players and their efforts. So many MMO's have been nerfed to suit new players who saw the "cool" stuff and wanted it, but weren't willing to put forth the effort, so the developers bowed to their wills, and suddenly, it looses all its lustre, because its no longer something special. Probably the best example in the history of stupid developer decisions being the Combat Upgrade system that Sony implemented in Star Wars Galaxies. And I am quite certain any pre-CU swg player is agreeing right now. They took the rewards that veterans had, and either gave them away like candy, or got rid of them entirely (along with screwing up an awesome game, but that's another issue). And what happened? Most of the vets left, and you're left with the people who are after a quick buck, and don't care who they step on to get it. Quality communities are built through a mutual respect. Loose the respect, you loose the people who make the game what it is. I like this game, and I care enough that I don't want that to happen. I only hope I'm not alone in that.

Just a quick note...

The devs mentioned a long time ago that having the epics unlock at lvl 50 was a 'mistake' (not sure of the exact words but paraphrasing). They carried it over to the villain side/for the VEATs just to make things the same. So lowering it was just their way of 'fixing' it.

I don't see how it's a 'blow' to the vets and as for

Quote:

Simply walking across the street on your Warshade or Peacebringer demanded authority. Anyone who saw you knew what it took for you to get where you are.

Uh...the first sentence kind of makes me giggle a little bit. Now maybe the VERY first time I saw a Peacebringer/Warshade I was like, "oooh, nice!" but after that? It's 'easy' to get a 50 (for the most part). It just takes time...there's nothing 'hard'...just takes time.

I'm glad they are lowering the lvl req....to 20? well whatever I'm fine with it.


If you want to talk about a 'slap in the face' type of action....there are quite a few that I'm sure others could elaborate more eloquently than I; however, how about when Positron said that there would be NO other way to earn the Isolator badge except to earn it through killing a random Contaminated that spawned once an hour in Recluse's Victory....and then months/a year later, when Ouroboros comes out, you can flashback and now earn the badge with ease. It took my badger a long time to get that badge. Am I upset? No not now...now it's easier for those who missed it. Did I want a 'newer' badge to say I got the badge at/through RV? At first yes, I won't lie But now? meh...

OK, Fleeting.... 30 thousand posts in 3 years.... Do you actually play the game, or just bash people that actually do, and are concerned about things they feel are detrimental? I wasn't going on a rampage or something, like you are seeming to imply. All of my points are valid arguments, based on facts and experiences with this and other games.

Whether you like Kheldians or not is irrelevant. They are still meant as a reward. So, complain that its a sucky reward if you want... but I like my kheldians, and I feel my hard work has just been slapped in the face.

Also, you mentioned new end game content.. Again, not relevant. That is great that there is new content for lv 50 characters to participate in, I am excited about that, but that is NOT the same as a reward for reaching 50 for the first time ever.\

And Ion, ok, so getting a 50 isn't hard, it just takes time, right? Same thing with veteran rewards... even less effort required, just time. So, let's just give all the veteran rewards out at the beginning then, since there's no effort lost.

And you all seem to be jumping me about the term "Epic". Yes, the story of the Kheldians is epic, so what is that?

Epic: 1)Noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of GREAT ACHIEVEMENTS or events is narrated in elevated style.
2) Heroic, majestic, impressively great
3) of unusually great size or extent

Yes, this is true with the Kheldians themselves, but is it to be exclusively that, and the person controlling them needs none of the same requirements? I personally don't think so. As a reward at reaching level 50, a person has shown a series of great achievements, has shown these same traits. They will have a knowledge of the world of CoH that a person who has only reached level 20 can not have. (This is NOT referring to people who exploit aspects of the game, but those who play through the content as intended. Decisions for game content should not be determined by those that utilize exploitation for gain. That is something for developers to work on eliminating, and an entirely different issue altogether.)

That is my opinion, I feel veterans efforts are being completely disregarded, no different than if veteran playtime rewards were given to new players, and I think it is a horrible choice by the developers.

wah wah wah QQ more, lol slap in the face it's a game and attacking post count yup that's gonna make everyone aggree with you.

Fleeting has 30,000 constructive posts.

You have five...posts. I can wait though, it's cool.

Question:

How are Epic ATs being 'taken away from you?'

If you have a 50 they still be unlocked.

Yes, it is a game. It's a game that I pay to play. One that I've been paying to play for quite some time. So, I think I've got every right to voice my opinion when I feel something is going on that shouldn't be; decisions being made that I think are in complete lack of respect for the people that make the game possible. Paying players are what keep an MMO in existence, and the veterans are those who have been contributing the longest, and should be respected. And I don't feel that this decision is doing that.

Seriously dude...let it go.

Sorry but lets look at WoW shall we with their first hero class (even the trailers for Wrath of the Lich king called them so), Death Knights.

Same sort of thing, you need to get to high level to unlock them...however you don't actually need to get to the level cap to unlock them, infact if I remember correctly you just have to get to level 60 to unlock them, with Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King, that's 20 levels off level cap and let me tell you those last 20 levels take more time than 1-50 does in CoH unless you grind your backside off.

Yes Epic CAN mean something of great achievement but in this case, it doesn't it refers to an epic storyline in the same way 'The odyseey' is refered to as an epic story.

You know what I think is epic achievement, once Going Rogue is introduced, someone having all three 'master of' badges (Statesman, Recluse and Imperious taskforces) THAT is a freaking achievement heck even having two of those is an epic achievement.

Getting to 50 any schmuck can do, it's no more an achievement than getting to 20, it just takes longer...

As was mentioned above, seeing a Kheldian has NEVER been a 'moment of awe' for most people normally because they're usually;

A) Played badly by someone who powerlevelled to 50 just to get a Kheldian and has no freaking idea how to play them.

B) They bring with them additional mobs that are a gigantic pain in the backside, Shadow Cysts and thus most of the time the team would rather not take a Kheldian all the same thank you very much.

Sorry but Kheldians and SoA's/WoA's are about as epic as every other AT...

Whatever... well, at least you can all be thankful this is probably my last post, and most likely last look at the forums. I came here to voice a legitimate concern, not to be insulted because I don't worship the developers every choice. Its funny... every person on here seems to think I am 100% wrong here, but EVERY single person I have discussed it with in the actual game agrees with me completely, and is very upset about it. I talked with a number of people before even writing this post, and if I didn't think it was an important issue, I would not have brought it up. But if the statements made here line up with the general voice you make on the forums, at least I know who the devs are listening to... not people petitioning and making suggestions in the game, but forum lurkers. Maybe one day they'll just make every person a lv 50 after creation, and then everyone can sit around the forums and talk about how much easier that is. Hope you all enjoy that.

I believe the term is Hyperbole Crazy Dragon...which this guy does seem to be full of.

Ok we're going the anecodatle evidence route are we?

Well almost everyone I've talked to agrees that it's a good thing, a few people don't like it but they are distinctly in the minority among the people I associate with ingame. Infact quite a large number of people are really looking forward to having a chance at creating a VEAT.

So my anecdotale evidence is a direct opposite of your anecdoatale evidence, which one of us is right?

The answer of course is NEITHER, we're both basing things on our circle of friends.

Infact if Champions Online has taught me anything, if this change was really as unpopular as you're making it out, there would be a firestorm on the forums in much the same way the Vibora bay 'pay for what is essentially an issue update here in CoH land' caused a massive uproar on their forums. It's distinctly quiet around here on the 'unlock at 20' issue isn't it?

Who friggin' cares?

I have 30 50s and I dont even like the "epics"...

This is like such the game breaker. Stop the God **** Presses!

Since the OP is obviously closeminded he probably won't bother to check the link FW provided. So here's what it shows . . .


Many things are suggested on the official forums, especially in the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Every so often, someone asks if the suggestions ever get implemented, or if the suggestion threads garner any notice by the developers. The answer is: yes! The following is a list of things which have made it into the game that began as a player suggestion.

Implemented Suggestions

Archetypes

• Increased BlasterHP
• Increased Blaster damage cap
• Removed Ice from Brutes

• Revisiting animations for Martial Arts, Katana, and Claws
• Modifying Sonic Resonance graphics to reduce headaches caused by the animations.

• Badges in general
• "Epic" level badges
• The name for the Trailblazer Badge
• Kill Skuls Badge
• Surging Badge
• Supergroup badges
• Badges unlocking contacts
• Geas of the Kind Ones
• Gender-specific badges (Man/Woman in Black)

• Biker-style leather jackets
• Fishnet Stockings
• Trench coats
• Bare legs for male characters
• Badges unlocking costume pieces
• Maple leaf chest symbol
• Pirate costume pieces
• Additional skirts
• Ninja costume items
• Spikes and chains costume pieces
• Lab Coats
• Multiple costume slots
• Tennis shoes
• Custom weapons

• Improvements to Paragon Dance Party (see: Pocket D)
• Triggered Giant Monster spawning
• Portals to the Rikti Crash Site and throughout the Shadow Shard
• Enemies fighting enemies
• Banished Pantheon in Bloody Bay and Sharkhead Isle
• Extra Malta Group and Carnival of Shadows spawn in Peregrine Island
• Moving PvP Zone Liaisons outside of the zone
• Hospital in Croatoa
• Inspiration vendors in Pocket D
• Ship to Striga from Independence Port
• Lighting the flag on City Hall in Atlas Park
• Store markers on the map
• Back Alley Brawler in Kings Row
• Coyote in Outbreak
• Tutorial made optional
• Police drones in Portal Corporation

• Enhancement Diversification
• Travel power suppression
• Inability to click mission objectives while phased or invisible
  • Inability to click mission objectives while invisible being a bad idea
• Global chat
• Coalition chat
• Increased experience bonus based on team size
• Increased mission completion bonus based on difficulty
• Difficulty
• Removal of Power 10 enhancement schemes
• No debt until level 10
• Half debt in missions
• Changed to the way Hamidon Enhancements were awarded, so that everyone gets one
• Teleport and resurrection propmts
• Respecifications
• Free respecs
• Exemplar
• Team search flags
• Pets following up and down elevators
• Auto exemplar for Task Forces
• Pet window
• Increased Influence trade cap
• Option to see your own name over your head
• /hide command
• Fading sound effects
• Auto logout
  • Auto logout disabled on TFs or inside missions
• Various changes to the hit claculation
• Archvillains downgrading to Elite Bosses
• Flashback

• Fire missions
• Newspaper / Police Radio missions
• A second contact chain in Mercy Island
• Mission auto-completion on teams
• Story arcs contained entirely in one zone
• The Calvin Scott Task Force as something temporary to move the story forward
• Contacts giving out their number sooner
• Heroes and Villains teaming up for the Pocket D event missions
• Addition of various Elite Bosses in some TFs
• Combat allies in missions
• Additional protection objective missions
• Traps (eg: Ernesto Hess Task Force)
• Prisons
• Outdoor maps

• Inherent powers for all Archetypes
• Removing the self immobilize from Unyielding Stance and Rooted
• Many Kheldian powers were changed or tweaked
• Origin temporary powers
• Fold Space changed to Singularity
• Elude improvements
• Stackable Dark Armors and Ice Armors
• Changed Domination to a Jekyl-Hyde style power
• Changed Scourge from double damage at 20%, to increasing chance for double damage from 50%
• Removed -ToHit from Fly
• Added a short hover to Teleport
• Ability to attack while using Superior Invisibility
• Shortening Twilight Grasp's animation
• Resistance debuff added to Tar Patch
• Most knockback powers in melee sets changed to knockdown
• Voltaic Sentinel given mobility
• Blaster inherent name changed to Defiance
• Damage debuff added to Chilling Embrace
• Removing defense enhancements from Wet Ice
• Gauntlet
• Fury
• Changed the Rage crash from a Disorient to -100% Endurance
  • Changed the Rage crash from -100% Endurance to 10s of being unable to attack
    • Changed the Rage crash from 10s of being unable to attack to 20s of dealing no damage.

• Archery
• Sonic Attack
• Electric Melee
• Electric Armor
• Changing the name of Sonic Buff to Sonic Resonance
• Plant Control
• Thugs
• Leadership
• Electric Mastery
• Buffs to Ice Armor

• Frostling and Rascal Gladiators
• Confuse protection and +Perception near bases in PvP zones
• Bloody Bay changed from Free-For-All to Hero vs. Villain
• Arena invites teleporting to a nearby Arena
• Mez suppression to prevent chain-mezzing

• Extra titles
• Adjustable permissions
• SG Colors
• Supergroup descriptions
• Enhancement storage

• Combined pricing for CoH+CoV
• Many emotes
• Crafting temporary powers
• Story arcs and website articles expanding the story background
• Need to type a character's name during deletion
• Damage resistance inpirations

You might find the new endgame system in GR a suitable replacement for your loss

Just as a side thought Mornediel, if there are tons of people that agree with you, why don't you have them voice their opinions on the forums like you are? They have a right to say they don't like it either.

I would suggest, however, that they try to be civil about the whole thing.