Well, I was thinking about this as well. The only thing my mind could come up with was...
A new series of Ultra Epic AT's?
I mean, if the things we worked so hard to get at level 50 are now going to be available at level 20, there must be something to replace Epic AT's. Maybe something for getting an Epic to 50 to unlock bonus AT's?
Whatever happens, I know we won't get left out in the cold for all the work we put into playing for so many years.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
The Devs have said for a long time now that making the EATs unlock at 50 was 'a major mistake'.
The definition of 'Epic' that the playerbase seems to have is not the same one the Devs have, irrc. 'Epic' in this sense is 'tied hevily to the canon and with their own story'.
Now, yes, arguably the VEATs didnt really pull off the story part. However, there are any number of reasons the EATs are getting unlocked at 20 now;
-More accessible
-Less of an 'Elitist' or 'Grind for the good stuff' feel
-Potential to add more EATs in future with less hassle about 'Oh, but they unlock earlier than 50, no fair!'
This game has always been less about the grind and more about enjoying the diversity and variations along the way. Which is probably a good thing, and why this game is still unique when compared to others out there.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In my opinion, they should have just left the current EAT's unlockable at 50. Leave it the same for all the people who had to get a toon to 50. I'm all for the level 20 thing though, as long as they are different EAT's. That way the requirements stay the same for everyone.
Characters:
- Dawnshift (50 Peacebringer/Virtue)
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Yeah, right here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=208877|
Originally Posted by jacktar
Is there another thread about this, looked but failed!
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12 topics below this one as of this writing....
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Originally Posted by jacktar
I wonder why this change is necessary? Are we dumbing down? Getting to 50 to roll my WS was a goal to get to 50, now, well one less reason for the journey?
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In the other thread I suggested that they'll start giving away all IO's at stores next -- for free, of course, including purples 'cause people whine about those! And of course, Cimerora is too much work for some people to get to, so the new way to unlock it will be just a mouse click to make a phone call to Montague Castanella or Mercedes Sheldon, 'cause actually TRAVELLING to see them is too much work, let alone doing an arc.
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Originally Posted by Matt_King
In my opinion, they should have just left the current EAT's unlockable at 50. Leave it the same for all the people who had to get a toon to 50. I'm all for the level 20 thing though, as long as they are different EAT's. That way the requirements stay the same for everyone.
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Paragon Studios seems to be going overboard in their quest to make things "new player friendly" at the cost of removing every single long-term goal in the game. It's an MMO -- we're SUPPOSED to have long-term goals to keep us playing and paying our monthly fee.
Right now THEIR idea of a long-term goal is "keep sending us money" and they're taking away our reasons to do so.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
OMG please everyone stop QQing about VEAT/HEATS! So they lowered the level prerequisite? So ffff what? I've only got a toon at 30 as my highest. I haven't even thought about Warshade's etc...and to be prefectly fff honest, I don't give a toss about 'em! I look at their powersets and think "meh, sounds OK" I really couldn't care. The one thing that annoys me the most about this game (not the lack of info, not waiting another 6months for GR) but the players who ***** and whine cos their little elite club is now getting pulled apart!
To all the level 50's out there: Congratualtions, well done, I bet it took some time, but ultimately...SFW? Go play CO!
Get a grip people, you know something good will come out of it!
Bah. If you think the EAT unlock going down to level 20 is bad (dumbing things down, making it pointless to bother with getting to 50, spitting in the eye of vets, whatever) you should go see what they've done over in WoW.
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No. I dont't think it's bad. I don't really care. However, If I play one and it's absolutely spewing awesomeness, then I may change my mind..as for seeing what WoW did..... |
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Bah. If you think the EAT unlock going down to level 20 is bad (dumbing things down, making it pointless to bother with getting to 50, spitting in the eye of vets, whatever) you should go see what they've done over in WoW.
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I'd sooner spoon out my eyes and feed them to the birds!
The only thing I don't understand is with leveling so easy in this game (20 can be done in a day if you really wanted it) why not just remove the prereq entirely and make them available at lvl 1?
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
^ ^ this ^ ^
Once upon a time Sony Online Entertainment thought making Jedi available from start was a good idea... then they got fired...
Did SOE's dev team invade Paragon?
50's: Heroes: Ozmeth DB/WP; Black Decker DM/Regen; Shado-Strike DM/SR Scrapper (13 AV soloed); Desert-Shock Claws/Elec Scrapper; Shado-Shriek Dark/Son Def
Villains: Bokken Nin/Nin
Current project(s):
there was an interveiw with posi not so long ago stateing that lvl 50's will be able to make there toons stronger! so guessing there will be somthing new for us!
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Read; Waaaah, entitlement much?|
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
(dumbing things down, making it pointless to bother with getting to 50, spitting in the eye of vets, whatever)
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Ye Gods, why am I still surprised at this sort of stuff? I really shouldn't be...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If this were the only thing that the NGE contained, Star Wars Galaxies would have lost only a few grumbling little snowflakes who were upset that they weren't as unique as they thought.|
Originally Posted by Ozmeth
Once upon a time Sony Online Entertainment thought making Jedi available from start was a good idea... then they got fired...
Did SOE's dev team invade Paragon? |
NGE also changed every single class in the game, significantly, changed the way combat worked and changed the way skills worked. They basically created a new game (hence, "New Game Experience") and invalidated every existing character.
Epic Archetypes unlocking at 20 is not a "New Game Experience." Not by a long shot.
Voids and Quantums are only a significant threat to the Kheldians themselves, and the cysts are only a big threat until you figure out how to fight them. Sorry folks, I don't buy the "but we'll have Quantums and Cysts in missions more frequently" as an argument against this move. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them in the regular game. Why is it that an entire enemy group is reserved for only one archetype? Surely other heroes see the Void Seekers and Nictus as a threat to the city.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Not everyone can play CoX 12 hours a day. |
Originally Posted by Radubadu
The only thing I don't understand is with leveling so easy in this game (20 can be done in a day if you really wanted it) why not just remove the prereq entirely and make them available at lvl 1?
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I'm well over three years into this game and still don't have a lvl 50. My main has been in the mid 40s for probably 8-9 months now. Granted, I'm in no hurry to get to 50, so obviously EATs aren't a huge draw for me, but it'd be nice to get to play with them. Redside, my highest is approaching lvl 30, so realistically speaking I'd probably never get to try the VEATs without this change. By the time I get there, they'd be taking the game offline.
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
Voids and Quantums are only a significant threat to the Kheldians themselves, and the cysts are only a big threat until you figure out how to fight them. Sorry folks, I don't buy the "but we'll have Quantums and Cysts in missions more frequently" as an argument against this move. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing more of them in the regular game. Why is it that an entire enemy group is reserved for only one archetype? Surely other heroes see the Void Seekers and Nictus as a threat to the city. |
I understand what you're saying but the way I understand it the voids and nictus are hunting the khelds not terrorizing the city. That's why they're "reserved" for one AT is it not?
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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Wow, misinformed much? Zookeeper was never supposed to be 10,000 monkeys. Somebody added an extra zero, and they let it slide. After a long while, they realized that a lot of people were engaging in behaviors that were not fun (dull, boring, pointless grinds, in fact) in order to get these badges. Rather than encourage people to pointlessly grind, or leave their characters in a zone overnight for three weeks soaking up damage from lowbie mobs, they decided to lower the requirements so that people who obsessed over theses kinds of badges could get back to the business of having fun.|
Originally Posted by Eldorado
Yeah, right here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=208877
12 topics below this one as of this writing.... Ha! My words exactly from that other thread -- this is just more of the "dumbing down" of CoX for the squeaky wheels. "It's too HARD to get 10,000 Rikti Monkeys! It's not fair that some zones are too high for my toon! It's not fair that I have to unlock a zone/costume pieces/weapons!" |
The level restrictions were removed from zones to enable the new sidekicking feature. Beforehand, if you had someone sidekicked to you who was level 15, and the next mission was in Dark Astoria, you either had to find another mission, or kick the lowbie out of the team.
I haven't seen any news about relaxing costume / weapon unlock requirements, so I don't know which orifice you are pulling that statement from.
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| In the other thread I suggested that they'll start giving away all IO's at stores next -- for free, of course, including purples 'cause people whine about those! And of course, Cimerora is too much work for some people to get to, so the new way to unlock it will be just a mouse click to make a phone call to Montague Castanella or Mercedes Sheldon, 'cause actually TRAVELLING to see them is too much work, let alone doing an arc. |
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| Agreed, but that's not the new improved CoX mentality! Nobody was SUPPOSED to get 10,000 Rikti Monkeys in an afternoon, just like they weren't SUPPOSED to get every Mission Architect badge in an hour. (And of course, we all remember how the devs handled the MA badge situation, right? They just removed them from every toon, regardless of how they got the badges, causing even more uproar.) |
The Devs want these badges to be achievable over the course of normal gameplay. A lot of the Epic, and now reduced, badge requirements encouraged aberrant, pure grind, boring gameplay. You want grind? You are welcome to go to WoW, Lineage or CO. You want fun? Stay here. That is the simple choice that is put before you.
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Paragon Studios seems to be going overboard in their quest to make things "new player friendly" at the cost of removing every single long-term goal in the game. It's an MMO -- we're SUPPOSED to have long-term goals to keep us playing and paying our monthly fee. Right now THEIR idea of a long-term goal is "keep sending us money" and they're taking away our reasons to do so. |
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Neither do I (in a perfect world where I get paid for playing video games)... but I know that when I get off work if I go home and make a new toon I can easily have it to 20 before I go to bed or damn close, hell a decent sewer team can get you to 10 in an hour.|
Originally Posted by Tyrrano
Not everyone can play CoX 12 hours a day.
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I'm not saying it's easy but if you form your own teams and focus on nothing but trying to get xp it's nowhere near difficult enough to say it's vastly different from just offering khelds at lvl 1.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
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JD - I'm quoting you here, but I realize you are stating this as an if statement - not that you necessarily hold these viewpoints yourself. |
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Bah. If you think the EAT unlock going down to level 20 is bad (dumbing things down, making it pointless to bother with getting to 50, spitting in the eye of vets, whatever)
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I don't understand the feeling that people with EATS are somehow being short changed here. How is this change actually harming anyone with a 50 currently? It's not a zero-sum thing, where every time a newb dings 20, some vet loses their WS or Fort.
Question: Don't all MMO's lower requirements for rare things when the rare things become "less rare?" Especially when new rare things are about to be introduced?
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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The Void Stalkers are assassins hunting aliens on earth who are seeking asylum, generally peaceful, and willing to help Paragon City fight the crime that infests its streets. If my hero hears about an assassination plot, why should it be below me that it targets a Kheldian rather than another human?|
Originally Posted by Radubadu
I understand what you're saying but the way I understand it the voids and nictus are hunting the khelds not terrorizing the city. That's why they're "reserved" for one AT is it not?
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And, as I understand it, the Nictus are trying to take over the world through the Council, but the only time we encounter a Council base with a Nictus in it is when we are teamed with a Kheldian.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
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Oh, I understand what you're saying. But getting to 50 is also vastly different. Granted, if I just played one red and one blue, even at my 3-5 hours per week pace, they'd both be 50s by now. But I don't - that's a choice I've made because, like many, I like variety. |
Originally Posted by Radubadu
Neither do I (in a perfect world where I get paid for playing video games)... but I know that when I get off work if I go home and make a new toon I can easily have it to 20 before I go to bed or damn close, hell a decent sewer team can get you to 10 in an hour.
I'm not saying it's easy but if you form your own teams and focus on nothing but trying to get xp it's nowhere near difficult enough to say it's vastly different from just offering khelds at lvl 1. |
I've even chosen to play my main without XP at times because I didn't want to outlevel content.Requiring level 20s before unlocking EATs does give a decent chance that you'll learn a bit about CoX and how things work before 'rolling up' an epic. And making them available right out of the gate means they're no longer 'special' at all (even if lowering the requirement makes them less 'special' - an opinion I don't necessarily share but will grant it's validity).
I guess the bottom line is, the devs made a conscious decision to change this. I'm sure they knew some people would feel that their accomplishment was somehow 'cheapened' and were willing to accept that.
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Those special enemies will also spawn outdoors amongst other enemy groups when an Epic is nearby, although I've never encountered this except when actually teaming with an Epic. I wonder if an increase in the Epic population will noticeably affect the makeup of street spawns?|
Originally Posted by jacktar
I figure this will mean a huge (okay subjective)(significant) increase in the Epics rolled and so teaming. Does this mean that we are to have Voids and Nictus in our missions on a much more regular basis
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Originally Posted by Commander
Whatever happens, I know we won't get left out in the cold for all the work we put into playing for so many years.
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So people on trial accounts can't play them? I'm just guessing, but that might be the reason they are keeping a level gate on them.
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Originally Posted by Radubadu
The only thing I don't understand is with leveling so easy in this game (20 can be done in a day if you really wanted it) why not just remove the prereq entirely and make them available at lvl 1?
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Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Also, all the ranting about 'it's easy to get to 20!'...Well...yeah, because you know how to. A new player will NOT have that knowledge, unles they ask around and study up. In which case they are probably bright enough to either figure out or learn how the EATs work best.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Hi,
saw the line in the Issue 17 announcement post about Epic AT's being available at lvl 20.
Is there another thread about this, looked but failed!
I wonder why this is happening. It would appear that a new player will be able to roll a first toon to 20 and then roll a PB or WS. Is that correct?
I figure this will mean a huge (okay subjective)(significant) increase in the Epics rolled and so teaming. Does this mean that we are to have Voids and Nictus in our missions on a much more regular basis, with the addition of the less experienced/aware (not necessarily less skillful) playing the very toons that are at risk and in danger of putting the team so as well?
Going to be a fast learning curve.
I wonder why this change is necessary? Are we dumbing down? Getting to 50 to roll my WS was a goal to get to 50, now, well one less reason for the journey?
Cheers
So many cats - So few recipes!
Age is of no importance,
unless you are a cheese!