Replace aggro hardcap with diminishing returns
As the title says. Currently, the enemy AI is hardwired that, if there are seventeen enemies attacking you, the rest will ignore you completely. Now, let's face it, seventeen enemies is a handful at best in a game that cheerfully throws dozens of enemies at you at once and completely inadequate for players who seek out huge battles intentionally. It's also felt hardest by archetypes {tankers {and brutes?}} for whom aggro management is part and parcel of their team role, as it's essentially saying that this is the most you can do, no matter your playstyle, build or personal skill.
Thus, what I propose is replacing the hard limit of NPC aggro with a gradual curve of diminishing aggro returns, where past a certain limit, every enemy aggroed incurs a penalty toward the aggro of the next. For example, {and I'm pulling these numbers out of my rear}, there are ten enemies attacking you. You attack another one, but since ten is the limit where diminishing returns start to kick in, a few points are subtracted from the aggro toward you that attack created, making it easier for that enemy to break away and attack someone else. You attack another enemy, and a few points more are subtracted from that attack, and so on, and so on, making it inherently more difficult to keep the attention of an entire group of enemies the more enemies pile on you. That way, in theory at least, the number of enemies a player can keep aggro on is placed more squarely in their hands, rather than a seemingly arbitrary number. Did I miss anything? |
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Can't they just remove the agro cap? Or make it something like capped at 30?
Diminishing returns would be computationally intensive compared to the current system.
That alone could make the system unfeasible.
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you also can agro as much as you like. you just have to kill some within time to keep the agro from the ones that didn't follow.
If I remember correctly, the reason we have a hardcap in the first place WAS because of farming. I think there's some build that's perfect for farming and they would aggro the entire map and then wipe them out with one hugely powerful AoE. The hardcap was so only a mob or two could possibly be pulled at a time and therefore said AoE couldn't kill an entire map in one go.
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If I remember correctly, the reason we have a hardcap in the first place WAS because of farming. I think there's some build that's perfect for farming and they would aggro the entire map and then wipe them out with one hugely powerful AoE. The hardcap was so only a mob or two could possibly be pulled at a time and therefore said AoE couldn't kill an entire map in one go.
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And hopefully that proposition would be considered on its own merits and accepted or rejected on them. Let's not jump on the slippery slope semantical bobsled.
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how about just.. I dunno... raising the aggro cap?
It would take a lot less code
It wouldn't piss players off trying to make sense of diminishing returns.
It'd make the developers lives easier too.
And hopefully that proposition would be considered on its own merits and accepted or rejected on them. Let's not jump on the slippery slope semantical bobsled. |
This makes no sense. Think of it this way: if you are the enemy and you see seventeen other guys attacking a person, don't you think it would make more sense to attack the people that aren't being attacked by seventeen guys? The aggro cap makes sense in an in-character, game world sort of way - there are so many guys piled up on that one person that it would just be easier and more efficient to go after another guy.
Of course, nobody cares about common sense because IT'S A GAME LOLOLOL GAMES DON'T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE. Whatever.
Diminishing returns would be computationally intensive compared to the current system.
That alone could make the system unfeasible. |
Any modification to aggro generated would have to be done to the player, which would instantly affect all of their powers and would therefore make it harder to hold the aggro of any of the first 10 enemies.
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Can't they just remove the agro cap? Or make it something like capped at 30?
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In principle, there is no need to stop the herd-and-nuke, and impose artifical aggro cap and max-target. It boils down to the fact that certain characters are very tough (with respect to certain types of mobs), and can't be defeated even by the whole map of mobs. Since it is not easy to buff the mobs without causing problems to other players, and there was enough nerf to players already (GDR and ED), such artificial caps are used, unless you guys want another GDR.
Regarding the suggestion using diminishing return, I believe a tanker can probably herd the whole map, just that the aggro can be lost easily. I bet the lost aggro is probably not a big deal if the team just want to nuke. Under such scheme, the team just needs to bring more nukes because of the max target.
As I understand it, Rain of Fire, Ice Storm and Blizzard all have no target cap.
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Pets.RainofFire.RainofFire: Max targets hit 16
Pets.IceStorm.IceStorm: Max targets hit 16
Pets.Blizzard.Blizzard: Max targets hit 16
And, since it was mentioned...
Pets.RainofArrows.RainofArrows: Max targets hit 16
Pets.FreezingRain.FreezingRain: Max targets hit 16
Amusingly, all of the above pets have no target cap for their "Avoid" power, so if you've got 17 critters in the area, 1 of them will run out despite not being damaged. [Rain of Arrows] also summons a second pet which doesn't have a target cap, but that second pet is named "RainofArrows Visual", and doesn't really do anything.
With regard to the Thugs Arsonist. The Arsonist's Fire Bomb power (granted by Upgrade Equipment) summons a pet named "Burn" with a max target count of 5 for the damage, and no target cap for the avoid, just like all of the above powers.
However.
All of the above powers come from pets, and the power that summons the pet only summons one instance of the pet, so there's no need to place a target cap on the summon power - the summon doesn't care about targets, it just summons a single pet.
The Arsonist's Fire Bomb power (which summons the Burn pet) will create one Burn for each target within Fire Bomb's area. Fire Bomb has no target cap, either, so the Arsonist is capable of summoning an unlimited number of Burn pets at once. And each Burn pet could damage 5 targets at once.
Note: the Arsonist's Fire Bomb power is his only power which acts this way. All of his other powers have proper target caps.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
As you understand it, you're wrong.
Pets.RainofFire.RainofFire: Max targets hit 16 Pets.IceStorm.IceStorm: Max targets hit 16 Pets.Blizzard.Blizzard: Max targets hit 16 And, since it was mentioned... Pets.RainofArrows.RainofArrows: Max targets hit 16 Pets.FreezingRain.FreezingRain: Max targets hit 16 Amusingly, all of the above pets have no target cap for their "Avoid" power, so if you've got 17 critters in the area, 1 of them will run out despite not being damaged. [Rain of Arrows] also summons a second pet which doesn't have a target cap, but that second pet is named "RainofArrows Visual", and doesn't really do anything. |
I was debating making a major thread about it. I hope your post refutes it well enough that no further effort is needed.
Sorry to disappoint, people.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
THANK YOU. I've suddenly been seeing this idea crop up just in the last few days, and been trying to pin posters down on where they got this idea. Example.
I was debating making a major thread about it. I hope your post refutes it well enough that no further effort is needed. Sorry to disappoint, people. |
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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based on what ive seen in game from actual experience using most of the powers mentioned (rain of arrows, blizzard, freezing rain, ect with the exception of rain of fire), ive used them on mobs way larger than 16 enemies and taken out a single mob of 25 with blizzard, the only thing left alive in the mob was the bosses because they have enough hp to survive the massive DoT from bizzard, same can be said for rain of arrows, ive taken out whole mobs with it before (assuming i had enough dmg buff), even without dmg buffs i still hit everything in the mob regardless how big it was.
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As the title says. Currently, the enemy AI is hardwired that, if there are seventeen enemies attacking you, the rest will ignore you completely. Now, let's face it, seventeen enemies is a handful at best in a game that cheerfully throws dozens of enemies at you at once and completely inadequate for players who seek out huge battles intentionally. It's also felt hardest by archetypes {tankers {and brutes?}} for whom aggro management is part and parcel of their team role, as it's essentially saying that this is the most you can do, no matter your playstyle, build or personal skill.
Thus, what I propose is replacing the hard limit of NPC aggro with a gradual curve of diminishing aggro returns, where past a certain limit, every enemy aggroed incurs a penalty toward the aggro of the next.
For example, {and I'm pulling these numbers out of my rear}, there are ten enemies attacking you. You attack another one, but since ten is the limit where diminishing returns start to kick in, a few points are subtracted from the aggro toward you that attack created, making it easier for that enemy to break away and attack someone else. You attack another enemy, and a few points more are subtracted from that attack, and so on, and so on, making it inherently more difficult to keep the attention of an entire group of enemies the more enemies pile on you.
That way, in theory at least, the number of enemies a player can keep aggro on is placed more squarely in their hands, rather than a seemingly arbitrary number.
Did I miss anything?