Excitment... and FEAR.. about new "End Game" content..

I thought the more obvious thing was the "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" quote?

Excitement leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the DOOM thread....

Let's see: Scrappers, Warshades.... drawing a blank on the remaining five.

This is exactly the same way I feel, or close. I decided a cool project for me would be to get every Fire Controller permutation to level 50, and every Fire Dominator permutation to level 50, and I've done it over 5 years. That's 16 characters that are level 50 that I played up and enjoyed but that I considered DONE. Sure, I could get accolades and badges and whatnot, but they are finished.

Currently, I can bring any one of my level 50s into any high level content I want, and I'd be useful. Merits from Task forces and cash from Task forces (for affording purples) are perfect for an endgame because someone could do that and go crazy and be better than me, but I can currently take any level 50 character on any task force and be fundamentally useful, if not as good as the guy with 100% recharge. Someone would say "cool we have a bubbler" or "we have a scrapper, great" and not "dude, you are a scrapper with no recharge bonuses. get out". I don't want that to be the case with the new system.

I'm very nervous that the new end game system will be exclusionary or will make me feel my characters are incomplete again. I've been playing to get my stable of concepts that I like done and completed. I like going "which one of my pretties will I take on the endgame content tonight". Changing that for me will be a disaster. It'd be like deleting every level 50 I have, undermining the whole point why I still play.

If the new system is something like being able to earn bonus slots so that you could eventually 6-slot every power you can take by 50, I'd be fine with it. Because a character with ALL its powers 6-slotted would be more powerful, but I'd be able to go on all the same task forces with my currently complete characters. If however I totally cant hang with the content with some level 50 I parked 3 years ago and dont touch ever, or if you have to do a bunch or advancement to get access to the endgame missions, or if its like a new powers system and none of my "done" character need bother trying to get on a team because nobody wants me, I'll be irritated. In that event the new system will have, as far as I'm concerned, deleted all of my level 50 characters because then I can't drag them out for any content for fun anymore.

And right now, I have 40 characters that are level 50, with 1 that is level 48 right now that will probably be level 50 by the end of the weekend.

Excitement: No.
Fear: Yes.
Curiosity: Let's call it Dread, shall we?


Lewis

It depends on your definition of "progress." Its virtually assured that there won't be any levels past 50, so in terms of combat and security levels, you're done. However, even now there are opportunities to improve the character, for example via inventions. Its character development that is orthogonal to traditional "progress" but it still exists for players that wish to do it.

The end game content will probably extend that option by providing specific challenges designed to challenge those that want to continue to build their character's overall strength. However, those characters are very likely to lose much of that capability under exemplar, which means the only place to show off that extra power might be in the end game content itself. They are not going to want to have end game-boosted level 50s bulldozing Monster Island solo.

I think there's lots of room for compromise here that doesn't create unlimited treadmills yet still allows for significant strength and diversification options for level 50s for players that wish to pursue them. However, in the absolute sense, people who actually *need* progress to halt dead at level 50 will probably have issues with the new end game system, just like there are people who believe the invention system "forces" them onto the treadmill of accumulating purples.

GR is bringing new 1-20 content and new 50 content

Issue 16 - Pets zone with their owner (okay, technically it applies to non-Mind/ Controllers and to Dark/ Defenders, as well)
Issue 15 - Barracuda SF, Domination revamp
Issue 13 - Pain Domination, PPP switching, Sister Airlia (2 story arcs)
Issue 12 - VEATs (6 story arcs, 5 non-arc missions), Mercedes Sheldon (1 story arc), Ashley McKnight (2 story arcs)

That may be apples and oranges, though.

Feeling you have to have purples doesn't change the fact that my level 50 character with only modest/cheap IOs, or with SOs, can get an invite to the hardest task forces, and the team is happy with me. So a person feeling they HAVE to have purples is simply WRONG, because even without purples they can go on and be useful in ALL the content and desired by any team.

If the new system makes it such that my level 50 Fire/Earth Dominator with SOs can't get on a team because the content cant be completed by someone who hasnt heavily invested in the new system, or isnt welcome on teams, or isnt tough enough, or is shut out in some way, thats a totally different complaint.

As long as the new system allows my level 50 SO only character to GO on all the content and not have the team reject me, then it will be a success. If you can't avoid the new system and still play with your friends, it will be a disaster. If I wanted a game where I had to keep up with the Jones' to expect to be invited, I'd play WOW.

Lewis

Once I get a character to 50, they are like a trophy. Stick 'em on a shelf, and ignore 'em. Sometimes I'll log into one, just to see if they have piece of rare salvage that one of my other characters could use, but that's about it. I tried once to play one of my 50's, and it just wasn't fun.

I don't have a lot of 50's though. I usually lose interest by 40 if not sooner. A lot of them feel done, once they have their tier 9 in primary or secondary, depending on if its a good or sucky power. I always felt that the 40-50 content wasn't fun.

Adding end game content won't change any of that. Not a bit.

You are free to stop playing your 50's. Even if they add end game content, you don't have to play it. I never had to play the 40-50 content, and originally only did so to unlock Peacebringers, Warshades, Widows and Spiders. I can't see how the existence of an end game could rob you of closure, or why you would need to pretend it doesn't exist. I never needed to pretend 40-50 didn't exist.

Well, to each his own.

If its fun to do, I don't care what level it is, I'll do it.

Recent changes to the difficulty system added fun back into the levels 40-50 for me. Turns out the grindy feeling I had in those levels was from being mezzed and sapped so much. I used to turn the difficulty up because I like to have boss fight in every mission. But doing so made fighting the minions tedious in those levels. Now that I can fight even level minions and a boss, I'm enjoying content that I couldn't before.

I don't know about apples and oranges: there are people that complain they get kicked from teams for not being IOed out now. Others have the exact opposite anecdotal experience. Those two perspectives appear totally irreconcilable. I suspect an essentially identical situation will occur with regard to end game content. Who's right and who's wrong will very likely come down to which of the two a particular player's experience matches.

From what I've read so far, there'll be level 50 content in Praetoria (possibly 45-50 or even 40-50), but for character starting in Praetoria at level 1, it seems you're forced to pick Loyalist or Resistance (determining Villain or Hero) by level 20. Of course, if the choice is made at 20, then the lowbie Praetoria content may extend up to 25 or 30, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

I read that too, but I think they just didnt put the rest of the information out yet. I dont know about you, but I have done all there is to do several times over. And the reason I am looking forward to GR sooooooooooooooooooooooo much is because I will have ALL new things to do on alts. I do not ever want to have to go back to Sharkhead simply because there is nothing new to do. Nor do I want to have to go to Talos.

They have been working on GR for a really long time now. I would think they would offer us atleast as much as what came with CoV.

But at level 20, you will have to leave Praetoria

That's posisble - but while CoV came with 1-40 content, GR could quite easily match that with 1-20 and the new endgame system, so there'd be just as much content as CoV, but distributed in a different way.

How much sense would it make to choose at side at 20 and then be banished to the Rogue Isles or Paragon City from 20 to 50? They have only talked specifically about the new "1 to 20 experience" but it's reasonable to assume there is a new path to 50 in Praetoria (or 40, if they save the 40-50 zone until Issue 18). The only previous expansion we've had (CoV) had a full 1 to 40 experience on launch. My assumption would be that the next expansion would have at least as much content... more, in fact, because CoV had 5 whole new ATs and lots of new sets, as opposed to GR's two new sets and possibly no ATs.

I think there may also be side-switching arcs at 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50, as any level is supposed to be able to change sides.

This makes no sense. Can anyone point to something that a Dev actually said that indicates that Praetoria will be a 1-20 and 45+ zone(s)?

Yes, what this guy said.

They have said somethikng to that effect awhile back, but I really hope, it was just a carrot.

That's because it was a stand-alone game - it needed 1 through 40 otherwise it wouldn't have been playable.
GR is not a stand-alone game - it requires COH/V - because at 20, you're sent out from Praetoria to the Paragon City or the Rogue Isles.

CoV was not an expansion, it was an "expanshalone". You could add CoV to your CoH account, but you could also have it stand alone as its own game (and only have access to CoV zones and ATs). Going Rogue is strictly an expansion; you must have CoH/V in order to make any use out of a GR code. GR is not a full game, unlike CoV was.

I still think thats just not even cool or funny.