What is keeping /rad from being a MM secondary?


beyeajus

 

Posted

I know this has probably been asked about a million times, but upon trying to create a bots/* MM I enjoy playing, my mind keeps wandering back to radiation emission. My fire/rad controller was one of the most fun characters I've ever played. Not so much the fire control (though imps DO make me smile), as the radiation secondary. I love the PBAoE heal. I love AM (who doesn't?). Heck, I even love fallout. I just love radiation! I'm just not happy without it...

So that being said, what is keeping /rad from being a MM secondary choice?


 

Posted

Probably cause there was storm, thermal, cold domination, kinetic, radiation, sonic, etc to be ported and they only do one per issue.

So what's keeping rad from being an MM secondary is numbers. =P In 5-6 issues, it's almost sure /rad will be there for MMs.


"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

 

Posted

I think mainly because it would cover nearly every type of debuff, that being, damage, to hit, defense, and resitance. No other MM debuff set can do that and it would become the best set you can pick for MMs and it would be fire/kin trollers or fire/psy doms all over again.

Plust it has a good fast recharging PBAoE heal with a bigger AoE than /Dark, along with a speed and recharge buff in AM.

Not saying it shouldn't be brought to MMs, I would gladly welcome it, but at this point it would just be to good for MMs IMO.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CryoTech View Post
I think mainly because it would cover nearly every type of debuff, that being, damage, to hit, defense, and resitance. No other MM debuff set can do that and it would become the best set you can pick for MMs and it would be fire/kin trollers or fire/psy doms all over again.

Plust it has a good fast recharging PBAoE heal with a bigger AoE than /Dark, along with a speed and recharge buff in AM.

Not saying it shouldn't be brought to MMs, I would gladly welcome it, but at this point it would just be to good for MMs IMO.
Well, the combo of buffs and debuffs might be too good but the heal isn't a good reason for putting off the port - its exactly the same heal as the one in thermal and pain domination.

Even with the smaller area twilight grasp still does twice as much healing as the pbae heals in thermal/pain at about half the end cost and has a fairly nice debuff (-to hit, -dam and -regen). So I would consider it roughly equal to thermal and pains AE heals and the rad heal would pretty much have the same values as those two.

I do agree that the combo of -to hit, -def, -dam, -res along with the buffs in AM would be a little powerfull on an MM but all that means is that they might want to reduce the values even more than usual for the buff/debuff powers - but not the heal.


Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13

 

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Quite honestly, I think the reason /Rad was not made an MM secondary in the first place was that there was no matching Primary. While Fire/Rad is well known as a good Corruptor combination, Rad/Rad is a permissable combination, and was in CoV from the start. So the devs try and match Primaries and Secondaries as much as they can.

There are exceptions; Energy Melee existed back when CoH first came out, but there was no Energy Defense to match with it until CoV, and Controllers have a LOT of Secondaries with no matching Primary. Still, I think the devs didn't like that Controllers were so mismatched like that, and tried not to make Dominators or Masterminds the same way.

At any rate, there have been discussions of Rad based Primaries to match with a Rad secondary, I personally think the best suggested mutated green blobs for henchmen (something like Shivans) for a sort of "irradiated mad scientist" theme. With Powerset Proliferation, though, Rad is supposed to be Proliferated over to MMs, and that may come before they can get a brand new Primary that fits the theme.

So the answer is, time. Time is keeping /Rad from being an MM Secondary. Wait, and it will happen.

(As for how powerful it would be, that'll probably be countered with nerfs. Pain has Suppress Pain instead of Soothing Aura, Force Field has a Personal Force Field that doesn't come back up immediately, Dark has a tiny heal radius and longer recharge Dark Servant, I'm sure any Proliferated Power Sets will be treated the same)


 

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It will come, albeit slightly nerfed and who knows where, all we can do is guess really. But IT will come, I mean most of the MM secondaries already provide uberness. The last two prolifs made me scratch my head and wonder, are the Devs nuts? They even gave MMs powerboost in the patrons, that was just asking for better AV killers. So rad will be powerful, but no more powerful then a thermal with all pet resist/def procs and shields.

I'll most likely roll a Necro/Rad to stack the -tohit and use Choking Cloud + Oppressive Gloom as mitigation in melee.


 

Posted

It will undoubtedly get there, but it will take some rebalancing and so unless for thematic reasons (like the necro/dark pairing) I think it will beone of the later secondaries ported.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

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Not much is left, can't wait for Cold. Now that will be seriously overpowered, even when nerfed on the scale they're using.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox View Post
Not much is left, can't wait for Cold. Now that will be seriously overpowered, even when nerfed on the scale they're using.
I think that /sonic with over-powered melee range pets would give /cold a run for it. Damage resistance debuff would be huge.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Benumb and Sleet really do it, but it depends on which primary as well. A Thug/Sonic, would do better then a Bot/Sonic for example. Merc/Sonic w/ procs on pets would be some nice synergy as well.

But as I mentioned before, most of the current sets for MMs provide uberness. Won't expect less from cold or sonic.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
Quite honestly, I think the reason /Rad was not made an MM secondary in the first place was that there was no matching Primary.
Bots? Radiation and robots have an obvious thematic connection.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

I would like to see /sonic because it would be fun to put those sonic toggles on your pets.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CryoTech View Post
I think mainly because it would cover nearly every type of debuff, that being, damage, to hit, defense, and resitance. No other MM debuff set can do that and it would become the best set you can pick for MMs and it would be fire/kin trollers or fire/psy doms all over again.

Plust it has a good fast recharging PBAoE heal with a bigger AoE than /Dark, along with a speed and recharge buff in AM.

Not saying it shouldn't be brought to MMs, I would gladly welcome it, but at this point it would just be to good for MMs IMO.
None of that makes any sense

1) They reduced TG's heal radius, they could do the same with rads heal, though dark's heal is about twice as powerful, so it wouldn't be neccesary.

2) AM would be a terrible MM buff. Most MMs don't need recharge, or the extra recovery, which leaves... running speed? If MMs get /rad I'd like to see AM replaced with something that actually helps your pets.

3) Traps can debuff damage, tohit, defense, regen, and resistance. Dark can debuff damage, tohit, regen, and resistance, as well as having three control powers and an extra pet. Poison can debuff defense, damage, tohit, and resistance. Not only that, but traps and dark beat out Rad in survivability by miles.

Personally, if you were going to say any powerset was unbalanced for MMs, dark and traps would rate far, far above rad on the list. Dark only has to deal with one toggle, traps has to deal with none. Rad by comparison will draw aggro directly to the mastermind. The rad dead-teammate nuke would be just as worthless to an MM as it is to everyone else unless they let you use it on your minions (not likely). And the huge recharge PBAoE hold is incredibly lackluster in a class that cannot otherwise stack its own holds.

I think, honestly, that /rad is not on MMs because the devs looked at how it functions and realized that while it offers some good powers, it also would need some changes to really work well for masterminds. At the very least, AM and EM Pulse would need to be looked at. While I can see them giving us Rad at some point, I don't see it happening until they've had time and care to tweak it the way they've adjusted some of the other powersets. And unlike /dark or /traps, that means more than just nudging some buff numbers down or decreasing a heal radius.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
2) AM would be a terrible MM buff. Most MMs don't need recharge, or the extra recovery, which leaves... running speed?
It's also a damage buff. And yes, MMs do often find endurance boosts useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
Rad by comparison will draw aggro directly to the mastermind.
Which with Bodyguard and debuffed enemies isn't that bad a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritfox View Post
And the huge recharge PBAoE hold is incredibly lackluster in a class that cannot otherwise stack its own holds.
It's a wide area hold in a set that doesn't normally get one, and can be stacked with a Patron hold. And with the Lich's & Ghost's hold with Necro.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

In the end the useful of /Rad will come down to the players ability to play the game. A Necro/Rad w/ choking cloud and oppressive gloom running into the center of the spawn. Drop debuffs. AM will help with keeping toggles running and recharge will help with LR spam.

I've got 5MMs at 50 and 3 Rad Emissions at 50, it will be a wonderful set on MMs. It will outpace dark quickly, albeit when ported its heal will be weaker then dark. But it doesn't require a target. As far as the rez goes, just skip it. I skipped the rez on my poison and pain MMs because I mainly solo w/ my MMs.

So in short PORT everything I got Necromancers to roll lol


 

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Necro/Rad makes me think either Ghouls or Spirit Mastery from Titan Quest.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keltic_NA View Post
So that being said, what is keeping /rad from being a MM secondary choice?

In answer to Keltic's question; I am what is keeping Rad from being ported to MMs.

The developers refuse to give me rad as a MM secondary because they know I could farm practicly anything with pets that have a 20% damage buff, 173% resistance to everything, +30% recharge time and %50.9 endurance recovery for 120 seconds.

As well as a 300 second rechargable nuke that I can use on my minions. Plus the toggled debuffs.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
pets that have a 20% damage buff, 173% resistance to everything, +30% recharge time
You can't buff recharge for pets anymore < sigh >.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

I honestly don't see /rad on MMs doing much of anything /traps isn't doing already.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWyvern View Post
Probably cause there was storm, thermal, cold domination, kinetic, radiation, sonic, etc to be ported and they only do one per issue.

So what's keeping rad from being an MM secondary is numbers. =P In 5-6 issues, it's almost sure /rad will be there for MMs.
Wait WHAT! IF YOU THINK THEY WILL GIVE KINETICS TO MASTERMINDS IT WILL BE SO INSANE NO ONE WILL EVER CHOSE ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE SET DIFFICULTY TO +0/X8 AND YOU HAVE PETS THAT HIT OVER 100 FOR THE WEAKEST MOVE!
caps used for screaming effect


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
Lack of mutant summoning.
This!

I think this is the idea I saw that I really liked, but there are a couple other mutant ideas in that same thread... perhaps it was a different one.



 

Posted

Radiation would be fine.

Kinetics would be a mistake without a massive nerf to Fulcrum Shift. Actually, the fact that Fulcrum Shift has made it this long without a massive nerf is kind of surreal.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Radiation would be fine.

Kinetics would be a mistake without a massive nerf to Fulcrum Shift. Actually, the fact that Fulcrum Shift has made it this long without a massive nerf is kind of surreal.
Why would it need to be nerfed?

All i hear is TOO OP and FULCRUM NEEDS NERF but i haver never read a solid argument why Kinetics would be overpowered with Masterminds or why Fulcrum shift is overpowered.

Overpowered compared to what?