Super Booster Pack V
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-12-04 18:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Personally for mutation I would like to see costume parts similar to the avenue that the Ralaruu Brutes are designed. I know that they arent mutant but look at thier arms and hands. the skin ripples with nonessencial protrusions of growth.
To me, the only real way to make a mutation booster pack would be to have costume parts make them look like a born freak. maybe for the power we could have sliders for individual parts so for instance one wing would look puny and under develped while the other was massive or the right foot looks contorted while the left is fine. maybe we can utilize more asymetrical costume paterns this way.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
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I tend to label robots/androids as Science Origin instead of technology. They were created by SCIENCE!.
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Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat
I suppose this example doesn't work in the case of androids/robots, who can't exactly take off their costumes, but in their case they're a lot more clear cut "Tech" than "Natural" anyway, since, you know, they're a robot. Robots don't just come together naturally like a pocketwatch on the beach.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
On the topic of a mutation booster pack, I'm still hoping for a squid head.
or a fish head: It's a trap!
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
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To me, a robot would only be science if it were imbued with super powers after its construction. For example, my Animatronic Wench was built to entertain visitors at Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but was retired when people complained that the display was sexist. When a freak electrical storm destroyed the warehouse where she was stored, she came to life determined to defend the rights of innocents everywhere. If the robot was created for different purposes and was changed somehow into a super, then it would be Science (or Magic, if that was the cause of the change).|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
I tend to label robots/androids as Science Origin instead of technology. They were created by SCIENCE!.
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A robot designed by an engineer specifically as a super (a battle robot or a hospital robot, or whatever) would seem either Natural or Tech to me. The difference would depend on two things: the uniqueness of the design and whether the focus of the "story" is the robot or the creator. A one-of-a-kind robot built by a skilled engineer realiging a dream would seem more techie than one of a series of robots built by the Crey Corporation.
A Mutant robot would seem to be one of a race of robots, but who was built differently through some non-replicable process. A bug in the manufacturing plant or a glitch in the operating system that was implanted in the robot at creation, maybe.
Magic would be either a) a robot built using magical means -- which would supplant the Natural or Tech origin -- or b) one who was given powers or sentience through magic -- replacing the Science origin. In either case, the name "golem" would probably be better than "robot", although robot does suggest metal or synthetic construction whereas golem would tend to be more natural materials.
And of course this is all my opinion and how I see robots in the COX origin system.
[SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow][U]Virtue Heroes (Serenity's Children):[/U] [B]@Eek a Mouse, The Devil's Mark, Outlaw Sniper, Gas-Soaked Rag Man, Amazon Prime, Friday's Child, Hot Blooded,[/B][B]Flower of the Moon[/B], [B]Rouge Demon Hunter[/B], Stimulated Emission, Animatronic Wench, [B]Lennie Small[/B]
[U]Virtue Villains (Serenity's Orphans):[/U][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=Yellow] [B]Eek a Rat[/B], [B]Bomb Blondeshell[/B], Babe Brute, Jeanne Dark, Fallen Angle[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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Android that is sentient would be science, if it was controlled it would be tecnology. Likewise a person that uses technology to make them super would be Science origin, unless they use the technology to *BE* super. I.e radioactive treatment for super strength, science. Radiation blaster, tech.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
I tend to label robots/androids as Science Origin instead of technology. They were created by SCIENCE!.
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But a cyborg would be tech since the creature is still not superpower, it uses tecnology, while science my be keeping the host alive, it is not what makes them super.
Natural is they where born with it or developed it, intentally
Mutation is was accidental or unintended change.
Magic include divine or mystical changes and equipement. But an argument could be made a normal person that learns to use a magical device out be natural or even technology. While the mystical ninja powers verge on magic.
Bottom line, its a game. what ever a person comes up with that works for them, is good.
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I would also say a magic origin robot would be one that was not built using magic but gained the ability to use magic (like the Tin Mage).
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Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
Magic would be either a) a robot built using magical means -- which would supplant the Natural or Tech origin -- or b) one who was given powers or sentience through magic -- replacing the Science origin. In either case, the name "golem" would probably be better than "robot", although robot does suggest metal or synthetic construction whereas golem would tend to be more natural materials.
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Man, After that ****, they can't just leave us in the wind with origins. |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I would also say a magic origin robot would be one that was not built using magic but gained the ability to use magic (like the Tin Mage).
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"Hey, we know you guys are limited to five, broadly defined "origins" that both stifle your character and allow for crazy ******** but now here's a Canon example of a character with TWO origins, AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT, NYAH NYAH NAYAH!"
Seriously, have a character origin option and a power source option.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
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I don't think Tin Mage has to have two origins unless you just want him to. I would classify him as Magic.|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
Man, After that ****, they can't just leave us in the wind with origins.
"Hey, we know you guys are limited to five, broadly defined "origins" that both stifle your character and allow for crazy ******** but now here's a Canon example of a character with TWO origins, AND YOU CAN'T HAVE IT, NYAH NYAH NAYAH!" Seriously, have a character origin option and a power source option. |
Maybe he's just a generic humanoid robot that does nothing special. In which case his only powers are his Magic. Meaning his origin is Magic. Technology gave him life, but not superpowers (as far as we know, anyway).
If we simply have to label him as Tech just because he's a robot, even though the "origin" of his superpowers is not technology in any way, that would mean every human character, whether they are classified as Magic, Science, Tech, or Mutation, would be hybrid of X/Natural. Because all humans are Natural to start with, just as all robots are Technology.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I take the opposite tack. A robot character that is built with powers would be science. A robot like my Bots/Traps Pain Machine is Tech Origin, because while it personally is Science Origin, its powers are technological devices it uses.
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Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
To me, a robot would only be science if it were imbued with super powers after its construction.
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't think Tin Mage has to have two origins unless you just want him to. I would classify him as Magic.
Maybe he's just a generic humanoid robot that does nothing special. In which case his only powers are his Magic. Meaning his origin is Magic. Technology gave him life, but not superpowers (as far as we know, anyway). If we simply have to label him as Tech just because he's a robot, even though the "origin" of his superpowers is not technology in any way, that would mean every human character, whether they are classified as Magic, Science, Tech, or Mutation, would be hybrid of X/Natural. Because all humans are Natural to start with, just as all robots are Technology. |
This Sounds like
this
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| "Hey, we know you guys are limited to five, broadly defined "origins" that both stifle your character and allow for crazy ******** |
I'm having a hard time not defining a robot, which is pretty much as advanced as a machine can get, as Technology, and Him using Magic as,...... not magic. A dual origin system of some kind is just easier on the mind.
Like, okay, here.
Origin: where your character comes from/what he is
Natural: All Normal Human beings, hands down.
Technology: You were created, or are sustained by technology Robots, Cyborgs, Technoorganic whatever the hecks, AIs developed in the internet that post on forums and..... nevermind, not talking about me at all... nexxt category.
Mutant:X-men Style "mutants" the "next stage in human evolution" and all that stuff yo-us Humans do... >.>
Science: A human being radically altered by scientific processes.
Magic A creature of supernatural origin
Alien:Cause seriously, we've been fighting aliens, since day one, why is there no alien origin? Kheldians prove they're out there.
Power Source: what generates your powers, or at least your primaries.
INternal: whatever your Origin is, this matches with it.
Magic: Artifacts, Spells, yadda yadda.
Technology: Gadgets, Weaponry, armor
In short
TIN MAGE IS ONE OF U- A ROBOT!
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Here is how I divide thing, your mileage may vary.
A normal human, by definition, has a Natural Origin.
But a normal human who becomes a superhero usually has a second Origin, the one that is recorded on their heroing license. This second Origin is the Origin of the abilities that enable them to fight crime in spandex when doing so would ordinarily just put the average Joe in the hospital.
Practically by definition, all superheroes can perform on an Olympic level nearly constantly. How?
NATURAL: Your Olympic Plus abilities result from things like training (Batman), superhuman abilities that are natural to your species (Martian Manhunter), or having something follow you around and do things for you (Johnny Thunder).
MAGIC: Your Olympic Plus abilities result from Magic. This can overlap with Natural and other Origins (Doctor Strange's magic results from training), but is more commonly the result of such things as a spiritual inheritance or grant from a nonhuman magical being (Juggernaut), possession of a magical artifact (Doctor Fate), or being a nonhuman being yourself that is specifically magical (Hercules). I divide Magic from Science here purely in the feel and intent of the writing, but a good rule of thumb is that if it blatantly handwaves physics without even attempting scientific technobabble, it's magic. Basically this one is up to the author, for instance Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha uses blatantly technological devices with digital readouts and what not, but they are defined in that universe as magic.
MUTANT: Your Olympic Plus abilities derive from a unique quirk of your genetics (the X-Men). I personally further define this thus: if your abilities are directly derived from the genetics of your parents, you are not technically a mutant (although you may detect as one, see Rachel Summers) but rather Natural (**** Sapiens Superior). Moreover, these abilities must become active 'naturally', through puberty or trauma; being hit with some effect that chemically or genetically (etc) changes you and also brings out your mutant abilities qualifies as Science in my book (the Hulk).
TECHNOLOGY: Your Olympic Plus abilities are actually result of use of a (and here is the important part) unique device that cannot be replicated by normal (21st century earth, preferably real-world) science. Sure, Flight Rings may be common as dirt where you come from, but around here, they are Technology. If, on the other hand, your device is something that anyone (with an unlimited budget and copious amounts of time) could run around with, then that is more Natural. Iron Man is very borderline here, but I count him as Technology because he always has a few technobabble 'black box' secrets to his armor, regardless of the number of knockoff suits that get built.
SCIENCE: To me, this is the catchall category. Nearly anyone who doesn't qualify as one of the others falls here? Splashed by energized chemicals? Bitten by a radioactive or genetically engineered animal? Survived the Big Crunch of a previous universe and the Big Bang of this one? All Science.
A robot granted sentience does not necessarily possess any super human abilities that would make it more suitable to fight crime than your average Olympic athlete. On the other hand, it may have been built with a very powerful motor and an armored shell (Natural), or be built of Adamantium and have a Prometheus generator at it's core (Technology). Even if it can use Magic, are the spells that it knows the things that make it feel capable of fighting crime?
In the end, it all comes down to what you put on your heroing license as the thing that qualifies you to fight crime by being something other than an upstanding citizen that likes spandex.
Imagine: Your character is passing by a dark alley at night, when she hears a scream. Investigating, she finds a hapless citizen being menaced by armed thugs. Seconds later, she has defeated the thugs and rescued the citizen. When the citizen asks, "how did you DO that?" the answer that comes to your character's mind is her Origin.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
this thread has so been overplayed out, this thread is about mutants. PLEASE no more "what makes a character origin x or not" stuff. we all have diff opinions on what a origin is classified. we get that but can we please stick to mutation discussion at least?
I have been looking forward to the mutant booster for a long time and would really love it if we can talk seriously about what we would like as we CAN have an impact on the dev's line of thinking.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
Quote:
All for a beastly feral run power, even if it seems entirely redundant with the natural booster's ninja run.
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Originally Posted by Du Hast
this thread has so been overplayed out, this thread is about mutants. PLEASE no more "what makes a character origin x or not" stuff. we all have diff opinions on what a origin is classified. we get that but can we please stick to mutation discussion at least?
I have been looking forward to the mutant booster for a long time and would really love it if we can talk seriously about what we would like as we CAN have an impact on the dev's line of thinking. |
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I'd honestly pay $10 for that.
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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
All for a beastly feral run power, even if it seems entirely redundant with the natural booster's ninja run.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Fox/wolf tails, please. A variety of animal parts. Fingertip claws (somehow). Bestial run/leap, animated tails and hair (Yes, City of Furries, whatever).
In addition, more assymetrical parts (one arm more bulky and muscular than the other), more ugly/horrific parts (bulgy veins, Medusa snakes for hair, holes through the body).
Maybe more adolescent faces and some costumes that 'teenage mutant runaway' look and feel: ripped, burnt, frozen and otherwise powers/battle-damaged jeans, shirts, skirts and jackets.
Perhaps a 'painful morph' costume change?
Hmmm, what would make a good booster power? How about a self-rez on a long timer similar to Mutation that buffs you after you rez? Hee hee, maybe it would even temporarily change your costume to some horrendously mutant form?
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Beastly run might be fun. Hand/finger claws definitely would. I've a bird themed character who is supposed to be using talons. Some kind of mutated self-rez would be good. Furry stuff, reptillian stuff maybe something like a translucent body that could be energy, or ice or a sentient gaseous entity.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
An android, built with its powers, would be 'natural' origin; same as aliens are natural origin. If the power is inherent and they were 'born' with it, it's natural. Data is a 'Natural' Android.
An android that was built without powers, but built powers for itself would then be technology origin. If it was granted powers through an accident, it would be science. If it studied magic, it would be a magic android. If suddenly a quirk of its programming or design caused it to spontaneously develop a new ability, it would be a mutant.
A robot, driven by someone else, is technology because the robot is an outside and highly complex external source of power that is itself not an autonomous life form.
... You can do anything you like with the origins. They're general guidelines and are really only limited by personal interpretation, nothing more.
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Maybe a clarification then, if I may....|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
You know, I think this is why I always have trouble with Science origin. With the other origins the focus is on the source of their powers, for Science the focus is on how they were granted them in the first place.
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Science origins have to be quantified by their origin of power as opposed to the source of it because of it's deceptive nature. Take the Hulk for example, if he were to be medically examined, he would appear to be a mutant whose cells store gamma radiation and release them in unpredictable ways. Not knowing of the incident that created him, this would categorize him as MUTATION as opposed to SCIENCE.
The difference in mutations and science gone wrong is Mutants have had their D.N.A. since birth, Science origins have had theirs changed by outside factors (To alleviate this very confusion altered-humans{SCIENCE} were re-categorized as INDUCED MUTANTS in the Marvel Super Heroes RPG Ultimate Powers Book, alongside BREED{one or both parents were mutants} and RANDOM{no mutant relative} varieties.)
MY FAREWELL GIFT
It is never truly gone, as long as there is someone left to remember.
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I love doing crazy **** with origins.|
Originally Posted by Eek a Mouse
Magic would be either a) a robot built using magical means -- which would supplant the Natural or Tech origin -- or b) one who was given powers or sentience through magic -- replacing the Science origin. In either case, the name "golem" would probably be better than "robot", although robot does suggest metal or synthetic construction whereas golem would tend to be more natural materials. |
Best example is my magic origin robot: "Steel Oni".
He is a demon who inhabited a cursed suit of samuri armour and would slowly corroupt and eventually take over the wearer of the armour. The armour passed through a lot of hands and eventually found its way (in the modern day) into the hands of an Arachnos lab. There, they broke down the armour and incorporated into a robot. They theorised that the robot would possess the demon's power but, lacking a mind or soul, would not be controlable by the demon. . . they were wrong
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characters have origins!
also: there's supposed to be a pack for mutants, whaddya want in it?
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
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Agreed. The thing is, Gadgets are both Natural and Technology. It says so on the tin. The original Origin system had a Gadgeteer, but heroes like that in the new system are on the line between. They may choose their Origin from the two that their sub-Origin lies between. |
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
For me, it all boils down to what's doing the work. A master swordsman can pick up a chunk of metal, wield it like a sword, and do super-human things with it.
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Although the examples are much rarer, I would consider Inventors, Focusing Device users and Genetic Scientists to be the same sort of thing. (And Relic/Talisman, of course, but they were in the original system with Gadgetters)
Personally, I use three criteria to define if a Gadget using hero is Natural or Technology. (And the same for Relic)
1) If you take away his "wonderful toys", will the hero still kick your butt?
2) Is the technology self-guided, or is it the hero's training that makes him so proficient with it? (or, like the Jetpacks, is it commonly available technology?)
3) Can he use magical Relics as well?
If all three are true, then he's Natural. In fact, I'd say if the last is true he has to be Natural, one unique advantage of Natural is that it can use both Gadgets and Relics. If only one or two of them are true, then you could go either way. I'll point out, though, that Batman often goes up against the occult, and while he doesn't use relics constantly, he has enough knowledge to improvise when he has to. He can usually follow along when a Magic hero (such as Etrigan or Doctor Fate) is explaining something. So I think those three criteria fit Batman very well, which is by design.
As for "pure" Technology, I would say that a Gadget user is not that. The line between Gadget and Technology is whether or not the technology is built into YOU. So to me the "pure" Technology hero is a cyborg or robot, as in the original system.
I will say on the subject of magic using Robots, though, that I created a robot that is animated by a demon summoned from the Netherworld. Crey attempted to experiment with using magic as a power source, and accidently caught "something" in the spell. So while my villain's body is a frame of technology, I don't consider it actually "him". The real villain is the demon locked up in the technology, and his origin is Magic. (Although he does not remember his true nature)
I think the Ninja Pack fits the "pure" Natural hero that doesn't use any gadgets or relics but just focuses his "chi" as a result of his martial arts training. Although we could use an Aliens pack.
I would think a Gadgets pack would be a sub-Origin pack, though, and in fact I think we should do all five of the sub-Origins.
Seems this thread keeps getting off track with the never-ending origin discussion... it'd be great if someone would start a new thread for that topic ;-)
I've summarized everyone's suggestions here. If I missed someone's, sorry. Please just add it after this post. If the devs are interested in ideas for the pack, I'm trying to make it easy for them to find the stuff that matters.
Great discussion so far guys. Keep the ideas flowing. I'm thinking it might be good to continue these brainstorming sessions as we catch wind of new booster packs coming out. Hopefully, the devs will see what we'd like and incorporate some of it.
Head:
Customizable Monstrous Heads
Face Tentacles (e.g. Squid)
Melted Faces
Bear
Bird (e.g. Eagle)
Fish
Frog
Gorilla/Monkey
Lion Mane
Eye-ball Stalks
Wrapped Heads
Mid-Body/Torso:
Arm-wings
Tentacles
Talons
Claws (e.g. Cat/Bear)
Belts Compatible w/Tails
Animated Tails
Cat Tail
Fox Tail
Body Textures/Add-Ons:
Extra Limbs
Fur (e.g. X-Mens Beast)
Feathers
Fish Fins
Lower Body:
Frog Feet
Miscellaneous:
Bestial Stance or Run
Self-Rez Power
Painful morph CC Emote
Ooze enveloped body CC Emote
Spiderman & His Amazing Friends inspired CC Emote (e.g. Firestar and Iceman)
Legion of Valor / Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
Pagan Priest - L50 Dark/Dark Defender
How about a few auras such as:
(A) Creppy tentacles, either translucent or otherwise, that swarm around or emerge randomly from the char.
(B) Fish swarms or even bunny swarms for humor. Same as fly swarm aura just different art.
also, a starfish head would look nicely horrific.
Different effects for powers, such as glowing spines for spine scrappers. Branch/spines for spine scrappers. Bone looking, organic feel to claws for scrappers. Could even be crystal claws similar to crystal spines for scrappers. But these should not be for stalkers, because they are evil and I dont like them.
Flower Knight's bio, for example, has her with a magic bow, yet she's a techie (devices blaster)