The 15 Dumbest Superhero Retcons Of All Time
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2009-11-17 11:14 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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The sad part is, the cartoon versions Actually did resolve it. (80's version had Jean ending it during her wedding, evolution it never happened and Wolverine and the X-Men forced Logan to make his decisions tactically) Only wish they would drop it in the comics.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
His rivalry with Cyclops was fun and interesting for the first few years, but it needs to be over (along with his fixation on Jean). That's one thing I've liked recently. They seem to have dispensed with them always *****ing at each other.
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It was resolved in the comics already, way back when, shortly after Jean became Phoenix.
Reading all this has just reminded me why I stopped reading comics back in '86. Alot of 60's DC stories made more sense than many of these things.
@Doctor Gemini
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True, but Morrison sorta brought it back a bit. Thankfully it didn't go much beyond that.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
It was resolved in the comics already, way back when, shortly after Jean became Phoenix.
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That's because you have an irrational hatred of the emotional spectrum concept.
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Originally Posted by Nemo_Utopian
i thought he was to kind.
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So you're familiar with Jeph Loeb, then.
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Originally Posted by Mylia
While they had it all planned out in advanced it was poorly designed for the feet up, and it does not follow any plan, all it followed was how much "silly" can they put in.
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Sometimes when I stub my toe, I feel like I should kill everyone around me.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Totally unlike Hal suddenly wanting to destroy all of existence because he couldn't prevent the destruction of his city.
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I am glad we are separated by the Internet.
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Originally Posted by The_Foo
Sometimes when I stub my toe, I feel like I should kill everyone around me.
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"Ben is short for Frank."
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I only rarely actually do it!
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Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan
I am glad we are separated by the Internet.
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I once destroyed an alternate timeline that way, messy but true.
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Originally Posted by The_Foo
Sometimes when I stub my toe, I feel like I should kill everyone around me.
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Just think of the missed opportunity to have Logan as an awkward father figure, trying to explain that, you know, maybe a nice subtle black or blue might be a better color scheme if she wants to follow him around. And then, wackiness can ensue.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
But then, I knew I wasn't going to like the story from the beginning, simply from an interview with the writer. They were presenting him questions from the forums and one asked about the inclusion of Jubilee. This is pretty much what he said:
"Wolverine is the ultimate hunter. Why would he have some girl in a bright yellow trench coat running around with him?" |
@Mindshadow
For the record, the whole Lupine thing came from the Earth X/Paradise X series. It kind of worked in that context because the whole thing was pretty out there and it wasn't canonical. Then the mighty Jeph Loeb got hold of it and you know the rest. I still don't get why anyone thinks that guy is a good writer.
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* Hands nemo ult a red lantern ring|
Originally Posted by The_Foo
That's because you have an irrational hatred of the emotional spectrum concept.
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Originally Posted by The_Foo
Sometimes when I stub my toe, I feel like I should kill everyone around me.
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Dex
I once destroyed an alternate timeline that way, messy but true.
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Originally Posted by Egos_Shadow
Just think of the missed opportunity to have Logan as an awkward father figure, trying to explain that, you know, maybe a nice subtle black or blue might be a better color scheme if she wants to follow him around. And then, wackiness can ensue.
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Anyone who sees wolverine as solely as this berserker and nothing else doesnt get logan at all. At the begining of the 90s late 80s his character was actually decent. Before popularity and more writers got their hands on him. A man at war with himself, as no one understands him or has his trust. I found his position relateable and really liked the character before he got warped by overexposure.
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I'd really like it if, for a couple years, they'd limit Wolverine to his own title.
Okay, I s'pose he could still be in X-Force OR X-Men. Not both.
Let him do his own thing behind the scenes for awhile. Concentrate on crafting a Wolverine that's well-rounded and fer the luv o' mud, MAP OUT HIS STORY!
Set his basic history and origins in stone and make writers work with that. No more memory implants, no more conspiracies, no more decades long manipulation. It's played out and stupid. Then bring him back into "the spotlight" once people aren't so frickin' tired of him anymore.
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Although the story sucked and was horribly dragged, the Clone Saga was not a bad retcon. Heck, if you go back to the original ending of the spider clone, when spiderman wins he himself was unsure of him being the real one (that sort of makes you ponder why they were fighting to the death, though.) Add that to Sidey surviving more than one falling building made the only "retcon" on that arc (the one that lost surviving) very subtle and credible. |
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
No mention of the Spider-Man Clone Saga? Really? I'd think that the "reveal" that the Peter Parker featured in Spidey comics for the last couple of decades may have been a clone, and the following re-retcon backpedal, would've made this list.
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Parallax I disliked. I read the issue where Hal attempted to recreate the entire city with his ring and saw him crack down, it was a good issue and well done. I think you could had brought him back and run the entire resurrection arc without retconing that. It would even give a bit more strength to the character to still carry that burden as real guilt.
All that aside, I home some one Retcons Osborne's hair do... honestly, I have never been able to read a book with that character in it. The character feels like a clown.
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| It's time for Marvel to have their own Crisis level event and reboot the whole blasted Marvel Universe. |
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| While I totally agree that they need to do a reboot of their universe. Then I think of the Ultimatum story arc, and cringe and fume on the crap that it brought to the field. |
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Originally Posted by Antigonus
There was no need for the Parallax reveal at all. It was clumsy and unnecessary, and ultimately made no sense in the overall context. The story of Hal Jordans fall and redemption was actually pretty good, even if parts of it were not well written. I for one would have much prefered for the character to have kept that blemish. A character that faulters but manages to redeem himself is far more interesting to read than one that is just perfect. This is particularly true of a character like Hal that is known for his arrogance.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Totally unlike Hal suddenly wanting to destroy all of existence because he couldn't prevent the destruction of his city.
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| Not a single member of Hal's supporting cast was killed when Coast City was destroyed. Literally zero. No ex-girlfriends we'd ever heard of before, not his family, not Tom, not even Ch'pp (though he died in GL: Mosaic, which is still one of my favorite comics ever). |
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That's the risk you take when you agree to wear the green.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Because he went through that so many times before to be able to say that.
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I mean, John Stewart failed to stop the destruction of the entire planet but you don't see him trying to murder everyone.
J'onn J'onnz, Starfire, and Superman all lost their homeworlds but you don't see them trying to wipe out existence.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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I wouldn't quite call it a missed opportunity, because they're tried a similar pairing with Kitty Pryde before and now Armor.|
Originally Posted by Egos_Shadow
Just think of the missed opportunity to have Logan as an awkward father figure, trying to explain that, you know, maybe a nice subtle black or blue might be a better color scheme if she wants to follow him around. And then, wackiness can ensue.
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And the costume thing is amusing. I think it was Claremont that wanted to put Wolverine back in his -slightly- more subtle brown and yellow variant costume back in the 90's, but the artists were being given as much control as the writers at the time. And then he gets a call from Jim Lee, who was proud to have put Wolverine back in the yellow and blue.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Epic FAIL on many of those, with Wolverine being the closest to being the dumbest of them all.
As a previous poster said: lolwut
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After loosing everyone in his planet he spent a huge time in solitude. Note also that he was just another martian (from what I have read on him) not a superior.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I mean, John Stewart failed to stop the destruction of the entire planet but you don't see him trying to murder everyone.
J'onn J'onnz, Starfire, and Superman all lost their homeworlds but you don't see them trying to wipe out existence. |
Superman was a baby, not enough attachment to Krypton other than desires to discover his roots.
Hal, though... there you got a guy that had "the strongest weapon in the universe" and on top acknowledged by most as "the best green lantern". It's harder to take loss when you are standing in such a high pedestal, it would be impossible to accept you don't have the power to bring them all back. That was the thought process in the issue I remember reading, the point where he snapped and just attempted to amass all the power of the entire corps for himself.
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He's fine if you don't let him mess with the status quo of a character too much. "The Long Halloween", for instance, is a great detective oriented Batman story, but in many respects it is just straight forward quality story telling. |
Originally Posted by Galactiman
Then the mighty Jeph Loeb got hold of it and you know the rest. I still don't get why anyone thinks that guy is a good writer.
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Stories like "The Long Halloween" and "Superman for All Seasons" are great examples of why his writing can be very good. They're tightly focused with excellent pacing. They're very intelligent books with many deeply layered substructures, usually taking the time to highlight specific motifs about a significant character and examining the life of that character in a meaningful and caring way. They also both happen to be books where he's just there to write a well written story in an established setting without any canonical implications.
Those kinds of works show why he can be a great writer. His problems start when you give him a large piece of creative control that may have far reaching implications into the character/universe. He's best used when you can let his writing talents be put to use on non canonical impacting projects, rather than a universe impacting project like Ultimatum.
In many respects, I think it is how the industry has handled stories that has had a bigger impact on how he is viewed. If the industry felt that simply well written stories were more important than universe altering events then I think they'd get far more mileage out of a writer like Loeb.
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Oh, my girlfriend who I have never mentioned before in the 30+ years I've been around and has never been mentioned since and was never even seen in the background of a panel in so much as an filler issue is dead. I think I'll kill my best friends and destroy the universe.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
It has been years since I read that story but I do recall him recreating the whole city with his ring and refering to every "ghost" by name, and mourning every single one of them. Was there not a girlfriend/wife/secretlove there too? I really remember him reaching for one to hug and kiss when his ring ran out of power and he did his first assault on a guardian's projection.
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The Cassandra Cain / Batgirl one was pretty much the nail in the coffin for DC for me. That, and killing off of Spoiler / Stephanie Brown.
... Of course, Steph recently got better from being murdered with a power drill by Black Mask, and is now the new Batgirl (and so far, the first 3 or so issues of that have been sorta... fun, in a way I don't expect to see in DC. I imagine that'll last right up until someone else takes over the book and has her murdered by Black Mask again so Barbara can have her spine and become Batgirl again or something. >_> )
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That whole Stephanie Brown/Leslie Thompkins thing was a horrible mess. So at first, Thompkins tells Batman that she purposefully withheld treatment from Brown to kill her to send a message to Batman and anyone else about joining the Bat Family. Seriously. WTF?|
Originally Posted by PoptartsNinja
...That, and killing off of Spoiler / Stephanie Brown.
... Of course, Steph recently got better from being murdered with a power drill by Black Mask, and is now the new Batgirl (and so far, the first 3 or so issues of that have been sorta... fun, in a way I don't expect to see in DC. I imagine that'll last right up until someone else takes over the book and has her murdered by Black Mask again so Barbara can have her spine and become Batgirl again or something. >_> ) |
Oh, wait! Sorry, they faked her death! Hehe, nevermind!
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Note that he spent time in solitude, and didn't try to kill everyone.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
After loosing everyone in his planet he spent a huge time in solitude. Note also that he was just another martian (from what I have read on him) not a superior.
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| Superman was a baby, not enough attachment to Krypton other than desires to discover his roots. |
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| Hal, though... there you got a guy that had "the strongest weapon in the universe" and on top acknowledged by most as "the best green lantern". It's harder to take loss when you are standing in such a high pedestal, it would be impossible to accept you don't have the power to bring them all back. That was the thought process in the issue I remember reading, the point where he snapped and just attempted to amass all the power of the entire corps for himself. |
The thing is that I could probably name at least 20 superheroes off the top of my head that have lost more than Hal Jordan and yet did not go genocidal. It just doesn't make sense.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Another one that made me want to throttle someone. It's nice that they tried to fix it, but it's still a horrid mess. And now she's out as Batgirl AGAIN, though my anger is slightly dulled since it's Steph doing it now. Still, they batter keep Cass around. Maybe give her a new title, team her up with her mom and dad or something.
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Originally Posted by PoptartsNinja
The Cassandra Cain / Batgirl one was pretty much the nail in the coffin for DC for me.
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On that note, I have to hand it to Marvel. They really know how to take a bad trend and crystallize it in its purest form. This decade they took the trend of emotionally crippled, self loathing superheroes and personified it in Penance; the guy who walks around in a spike filled suit because he needs to cut himself to feel enough emotion to use his powers.
I'd suggest perhaps the two should fight in some kind of soul crushing meta commentary on society, but realistically as soon as Penance cut himself, Adam would make him go boom. Then again, I'm sure someone will do it anyway.