Walk power improvements


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Posted

(First post by the way!)

Just recently City of X gained a new power, a highly requested feature to enable characters to walk. After trying it out for a while I was happy I could put it on auto-walk and keep moving at an easy pace, even with the ability to jump. And it sure makes it easier to manoeuvre cluttered environments and line up sit emotes on ledges.

But unfortunately I found that even though the description said the walk power is not for combat, it doesn't just discourage it, pretty much forces you into a blanket power-suppression. I can understand that walking doesn't give you any tactical advantage during a fight, but the way it does it is rather forceful and unneccesary.

After a bit of thinking I managed to come up with a few ideas to integrate the walk better, with minimal side-effects when it come to combat.

------

Power Suppression (v.1)
This may seem a bit redundant as the powers under walk are already unusable whilst active, but the way to convince players it's not for combat is rather harsh. Any active toggles are detoggled and ones with long recharges have to charge again.

One solution is lessen the impact by making all click powers unusable as normal but suppressing or 'Affecting Self only' the effects of toggles. This way walk doesn't turn off toggles with their recharge and can start working again when walk is detoggled.

Power Suppression
(v.2)
A more lenient variant of the previous suggestion, all click powers are unusable but active toggles remain active and working. This could help out with ATs such as the Stalker who require their Hide power to be as reachable as possible. Also players running lots of Leadership powers can move around as slow as they want while benefiting their team-mates.

No Suppression
And naturally, get rid of the restrictive nature of Walk altogether. If Walk gives you less of a tactical advantage by slowing you down in the first place, why make it worse by making all other powers useless?

Players might accept walk better if they're just warned rather than forced to the idea of 'Not for combat'.

Brisk Walk
If there had to be one power that could work well with Walk, it would be Sprint. Why? Well considering that Sprint boosts the speed of running somewhat, it would make sense that you'd want to walk faster than normal.

It could be like power-walking. If players find regular walking too slow and running a little fast, at least they have a mid-ground to work with.

-------

That's all I could think of at the time. It's now the communities turn! Are any of these suggestions good, do you have any comments of your own?



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Posted

I think the idea is that there is tons and tons of animation work needed to get all of the powers in the game to work properly with walk..

Or that was the justification until Ninja Run came out



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Posted

If walk is a live feature in process I could understand that, nobody likes buggy animations if powers don't work with it yet. But generally a blanket power-suppression kind of turns Walk into something of an RP-only thing rather than a genuine slower form of movement.

Not to mention powers like Hide, Stealth and Invisiblity would work pretty well with Walk. In fact, the whole issue with people running WAY too fast after being Speed-Boosted would get the ability to actually slow the **** down. And for that reason, allowing powers to be active during combat and speed boost would be most helpful indeed.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneirohero View Post
If walk is a live feature in process I could understand that, nobody likes buggy animations if powers don't work with it yet. But generally a blanket power-suppression kind of turns Walk into something of an RP-only thing rather than a genuine slower form of movement.

Not to mention powers like Hide, Stealth and Invisiblity would work pretty well with Walk. In fact, the whole issue with people running WAY too fast after being Speed-Boosted would get the ability to actually slow the f*** down. And for that reason, allowing powers to be active during combat and speed boost would be most helpful indeed.
News Flash - Walk is intended to be mainly for RPing.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneirohero View Post
(First post by the way!)
------

Power Suppression (v.1)
This may seem a bit redundant as the powers under walk are already unusable whilst active, but the way to convince players it's not for combat is rather harsh. Any active toggles are detoggled and ones with long recharges have to charge again.

One solution is lessen the impact by making all click powers unusable as normal but suppressing or 'Affecting Self only' the effects of toggles. This way walk doesn't turn off toggles with their recharge and can start working again when walk is detoggled.

Power Suppression (v.2)
A more lenient variant of the previous suggestion, all click powers are unusable but active toggles remain active and working. This could help out with ATs such as the Stalker who require their Hide power to be as reachable as possible. Also players running lots of Leadership powers can move around as slow as they want while benefiting their team-mates.
I like these two, as they don't get into the "making the new animation work with the attack powers" thing.

And as for a first post, it was a pretty good one. Click on the scales icon beneath your name (on the first post) to see what positive rep comments look like.
Welcome to the boards!

Edit: Minor nitpick: If you are using the walk toggle, you're going to be going slow enough that your team will be outpacing you considerably, making buffing via Leadership toggles not work.
Unless your team consists only of your (Mastermind!) summoned henchmen, in which case they will be happy to move at YOUR pace, without complaining.
Or your team is all Granite tanks.
Or your team is having a LOT of problems, in which case, you should turn off Walk and not deliberately operate at less than peak efficiency.


 

Posted

From the Patch Note thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
As stated in the patch note, this toggle is not intended to be used in combat. It's mainly there for people to RP in safe areas...Atlas Park, Pocket D, etc. It can certainly be used outside of those areas, but there's only a certain level of functionality that we're going to be able to accomodate for now.

Eventually, I'd like to create walk animations for the various combat modes...but that's a significant chunk of work and I don't know if we'll ever be able to get to it. If we can, then Walk could be made into a regular travel mode power...one which could work with combat as well. Which would make the issue of toggle deactivation/suppression moot.


 

Posted

Well then, if BaBs says so, then that's the way it will be.

I kind of liked the idea of being able to turn on the Walk toggle as a solution for those that really dislike getting Speed-Boosted, but oh well.


 

Posted

So said the BaBs, so it was done...

But Babs, do work on allowing us to use or powers with it. Things are not always about being faster, bigger, better (ok, maybe bigger), but this would so much add to those little QoL things that few other MMOs out there have. In addition, it would look really *ZOMG*KEWL* with certain powersets.

I know you guys aren't busy or anything (note the sarcasm), but if you do this, I'll send some pies to Paragon Studios. What kind of pie do you like? Chocolate pie? Lemon Pie? Pumpkin Pie? Name your pie, I'll send three or four! Just don't say p**t*ng pie, that I can't provide.

Akry

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P.S.S., I'm serious, too!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneirohero View Post
(First post by the way!)

Just recently City of X gained a new power, a highly requested feature to enable characters to walk. After trying it out for a while I was happy I could put it on auto-walk and keep moving at an easy pace, even with the ability to jump. And it sure makes it easier to manoeuvre cluttered environments and line up sit emotes on ledges.

But unfortunately I found that even though the description said the walk power is not for combat, it doesn't just discourage it, pretty much forces you into a blanket power-suppression. I can understand that walking doesn't give you any tactical advantage during a fight, but the way it does it is rather forceful and unneccesary.

After a bit of thinking I managed to come up with a few ideas to integrate the walk better, with minimal side-effects when it come to combat.

------

Power Suppression (v.1)
This may seem a bit redundant as the powers under walk are already unusable whilst active, but the way to convince players it's not for combat is rather harsh. Any active toggles are detoggled and ones with long recharges have to charge again.

One solution is lessen the impact by making all click powers unusable as normal but suppressing or 'Affecting Self only' the effects of toggles. This way walk doesn't turn off toggles with their recharge and can start working again when walk is detoggled.

Power Suppression
(v.2)
A more lenient variant of the previous suggestion, all click powers are unusable but active toggles remain active and working. This could help out with ATs such as the Stalker who require their Hide power to be as reachable as possible. Also players running lots of Leadership powers can move around as slow as they want while benefiting their team-mates.

No Suppression
And naturally, get rid of the restrictive nature of Walk altogether. If Walk gives you less of a tactical advantage by slowing you down in the first place, why make it worse by making all other powers useless?

Players might accept walk better if they're just warned rather than forced to the idea of 'Not for combat'.

Brisk Walk
If there had to be one power that could work well with Walk, it would be Sprint. Why? Well considering that Sprint boosts the speed of running somewhat, it would make sense that you'd want to walk faster than normal.

It could be like power-walking. If players find regular walking too slow and running a little fast, at least they have a mid-ground to work with.

-------

That's all I could think of at the time. It's now the communities turn! Are any of these suggestions good, do you have any comments of your own?
To get Walk animations for out of combat, we needed 24 animations; 8 moves, for 3 different body types. Since it's out of combat we don't really need to worry about 'facing' ahead and most of these were modified versions of the walk forward animation, we could just rotate the character to have them walk towards the camera. For walk animations in combat, we need 8 animations per combat mode...roughly 64 animations. And they are significantly more work than modifying a single walk cycle to point it in different directions.

Restricting powers from being used while Walking is purely about not having the various combat animations needed to support it. It wasn't about forcing the power to only work for RP...that's just all the power can do right now.

When we have time to do those extra animations, then we'll no longer need the restrictions on Walk and combat.


 

Posted

I'm still at a loss, was there really this much demand for this feature to be added? I still do not see, any benefit other than strutting your stuff on the catwalk under atlas.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
I'm still at a loss, was there really this much demand for this feature to be added? I still do not see, any benefit other than strutting your stuff on the catwalk under atlas.
You just answered your own question.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
When we have time to do those extra animations, then we'll no longer need the restrictions on Walk and combat.
Well, something to aim for, for say... issue 35?



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
To get Walk animations for out of combat, we needed 24 animations; 8 moves, for 3 different body types. Since it's out of combat we don't really need to worry about 'facing' ahead and most of these were modified versions of the walk forward animation, we could just rotate the character to have them walk towards the camera. For walk animations in combat, we need 8 animations per combat mode...roughly 64 animations. And they are significantly more work than modifying a single walk cycle to point it in different directions.

Restricting powers from being used while Walking is purely about not having the various combat animations needed to support it. It wasn't about forcing the power to only work for RP...that's just all the power can do right now.

When we have time to do those extra animations, then we'll no longer need the restrictions on Walk and combat.
This argument doesn't really make much sense against making it suppress toggles instead of detoggling. You can still be attacked while walking, can't you? And assuming Walk could be made so that toggles only suppress but click powers(including all attacks) are still unusable, you'd still need to detoggle Walk to fight back.

Making Walk "Only affecting self" or some variant would make it much more convenient for people who want to use the power whenever they want, like waiting around for a teammate or walking around in a dangerous area. As it is now, when a teammate comes back or if a mob starts attacking you not only have to detoggle Walk but also re-toggle all your other powers. If Walk only suppressed the toggles, you'd only need to detoggle Walk and you'd be instantly ready.

I think the main thing you seem to be missing here is that in either case, you'd have to detoggle Walk. I think most of us aren't talking about fighting with Walk on, we understand that something like that will take a lot more animations and time to implement. What we're really asking for is the ability to fight immediately after turning Walk off. We're talking about not having to retoggle all our powers every single time we turn Walk off.

In other words, with Walk toggled on, all toggles would be suppressed instead of turned off, and all click powers including all attacks would be unavailable. This sounds like the "Only affecting self" flag to me, but I guess I could be wrong. Even if it's not, I really think this kind of implementation is what most of us are wanting short-term, and it would certainly make Walk a much more convenient power to use whenever.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerikko View Post
I'm still at a loss, was there really this much demand for this feature to be added? I still do not see, any benefit other than strutting your stuff on the catwalk under atlas.
The benefits are purely cosmetic. For years, people have asked for the ability to walk instead of running everywhere. Almost as long as people have been asking for animated hair, backpacks, or holsters / sheathes. Just think of the Walk power as another costume piece, and you'll have the proper frame of reference to understand it.

I won't use it much, but, after Ninja Run, even Sprint is too slow for me. Lots of my characters will be using Ninja Run until they get their real travel powers, even the ones who have no business ninja-running (my Stone / Stone Tanker, for example).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightfoot View Post
The benefits are purely cosmetic. For years, people have asked for the ability to walk instead of running everywhere. Almost as long as people have been asking for animated hair, backpacks, or holsters / sheathes. Just think of the Walk power as another costume piece, and you'll have the proper frame of reference to understand it.
^ This
Its a nice QoL thing for the people who care about it.
And it was done in spare time, so there should be no moaning about 'We should have had this developed instead!' I know there will be, though...damn fleshlings...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyasubaru View Post
This argument doesn't really make much sense against making it suppress toggles instead of detoggling.
Except from what I heard, Walk's power suppression is via the Disable_All flag, and there is no "Click" flag for it to target. So, without going and flagging all the relevant powers in the game, there is no way to achieve the necessary suppression without including toggles.


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Posted

What are the odds of getting multiple walk animations to choose from? Like all the prestige sprints.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as thankful as the next RPer that they even released the power, and great job on it. But the sultry vixen wiggle isn't as... how to put it... adaptable for female character concepts as the male and huge walks. A lot of character types look great doing the female walk. A lot of character types also look incredibly wrong, if not disturbing, doing the female walk.


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good luck D.B.B.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agonus View Post
What are the odds of getting multiple walk animations to choose from? Like all the prestige sprints.
Prestige sprints don't have multiple animations...so I guess it's already done?


 

Posted

Thanks for the work on Walk. I hope it becomes fuller-featured, but like the walk power itself its not a priority!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
Prestige sprints don't have multiple animations...so I guess it's already done?


You know what he meant. Multiple walk powers with separate animations. Which ain't likely; more duplication of work is more worser...er.


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Posted

How about this for an improvement:

Make is usable after switching builds.

Seriously, both WALK and NINJA RUN have this strange bug where, if you switch builds, NEITHER will activate for 15 minutes.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrotron View Post


You know what he meant. Multiple walk powers with separate animations. Which ain't likely; more duplication of work is more worser...er.
That's my point. We don't have any travel powers with multiple animations, be it in a single power or multiple powers. All of the prestige sprints have different visual effects, but use the same animations.

I think some of you guys are making the assumption that because we can have different visual effects for travel powers, and other powers can have both different VFX and different animations, that travel powers could also have different animations...but that's not the case.

Movement modes are not the same as powers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
That's my point. We don't have any travel powers with multiple animations, be it in a single power or multiple powers. All of the prestige sprints have different visual effects, but use the same animations.

I think some of you guys are making the assumption that because we can have different visual effects for travel powers, and other powers can have both different VFX and different animations, that travel powers could also have different animations...but that's not the case.

Movement modes are not the same as powers.
Well .... actually ... the slide doesn't use the same animation as sprint .... *ducks*

It's ok BaBs, I like the walk power just the way it is. Those nasty people will eventually accept the power for what it is.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler View Post
That's my point. We don't have any travel powers with multiple animations, be it in a single power or multiple powers. All of the prestige sprints have different visual effects, but use the same animations.

I think some of you guys are making the assumption that because we can have different visual effects for travel powers, and other powers can have both different VFX and different animations, that travel powers could also have different animations...but that's not the case.

Movement modes are not the same as powers.
My apologies for not being clear, I was referring more to the base Sprint and Prestige Power Slide. Aren't they both included in the broader "Sprints" category?


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good luck D.B.B.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
How about this for an improvement:

Make is usable after switching builds.

Seriously, both WALK and NINJA RUN have this strange bug where, if you switch builds, NEITHER will activate for 15 minutes.
I tested that and it's true if you haven't leveled up your second build, because level 1 toons don't have access to those powers. Once I started leveling up the second build, Walk kicked in at level 2 and NR at 4, just like they're supposed to.

I then switched to a toon that had both builds leveled up to 50 and when I switched builds, there was no suppression of Walk or NR.

So, this is a case that if you want to press the point that this is a bug for your toon, then you gotta post the pics to show that your leveled-up second build indeed has suppressed Walk and NR.


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