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Thank you. You have made the point far more clearly than I ever could. Segregation is bad in all areas save chemistry.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
Individual Defiant players might be able to buy anything on the market, but overall, the supply of things on Defiant is lower. That means inf transferred from Freedom to Defiant is going to be less than inf transferrred from Defiant to Freedom.
There simply are fewer Defiant players than there are Freedom players. This is a fact. In the aggregate, Defiant players generate much less inf than Freedom players, just from the sheer weight of number. They generate fewer recipies, and less salvage. While, yes, inf under a merged market would flow freely between the sides, the fact is, prices for everything would rise. And with fewer Defiant players playing, that means individuals on Defiant would have a harder time paying for things from the merged market. Also, in a merged market situation, the flow of Freedom inf to Defiant inf would quickly stabilize, leaving Defiant players overall in a poorer position. Teams are generally the best/fastest way of generating influence and infamy. Have you tried to form teams on Defiant? Let me tell you, most of the time, you cannot get a large team together, on Defiant, unless there is an event of some kind running. on Freedom, on the other hand, it is easy to get into a team. Agree, y/n? Do you think that players on the smaller servers are in a position that they can't afford to outfit their toons because the players on the larger servers have all the inf? Do you think the market should be split up so it's intra-server only, to be fair to the majority of lower-population servers? Would that lower prices for everyone? What effect do you think it would have on supply? |
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I suspect Arachnos would probably trust the Heroes more than the threats that the Destined Ones pose. Recluse and his Lts aren't exactly known for being the trusting sort - probably got something to do with the risk of being stabbed in the back.|
Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
Then what is the point of becoming a Rogue/Vigilante if no one trusts you enough to give you a mission? What options do I have as a rogue? Will there be new rogue contacts on both sides or will I rely onnewspaper/radio missions?
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They'd likely see the Vigilantes as just another tool to carry out their aims.
Reformed villains on the other hand would expect to see a lower level of trust than their new hero friends.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
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I'm not sure - I think there'll be something for them - but all they've said so far is that Rogues and Vigilantes can't get missions until they've fully changed to the other side.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
Then what is the point of becoming a Rogue/Vigilante if no one trusts you enough to give you a mission? What options do I have as a rogue? Will there be new rogue contacts on both sides or will I rely onnewspaper/radio missions?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm betting that while Vigilantes/Rogues can't get Missions themselves when on the 'no contacts allowed' side, they'll be 'invitable' by a player that can. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I'm not sure - I think there'll be something for them - but all they've said so far is that Rogues and Vigilantes can't get missions until they've fully changed to the other side.
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Example: a Blaster goes Vigilante and visits the Rogue Isles. No contacts will give him a mission, but a Villain MasterMind could invite him to Team and help out with the Mastermind's missions, given via Mastermind's contacts.
Flip it for the Rogues in Paragon...
Not sure if that's how it will work, but I'd bet a least 20 dollars on it *snicker*
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I have been sitting here reading several pages on this thread, trying to get a better idea as to about when this expansion will go live (buy at stores for those who don't have the game yet)? I see people talking about closed beta testing at the beginning of 2010, but has there been anything brought up about a given time frame as to when this will be out to play? I am just dieing to play this new expansion but see no mention as to a time frame. Are we looking at Jan./Feb. or Feb./March or even March/April?? Would have been cool for it to be available for Christmas... but I can see that was wishfull thinking on my part. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
It means you're eligible for entry to the beta once they start the "loyal customer" wave of invitations. I believe 5+ year vets still have higher priority.
Note that the beta won't actually start until some point after New Years, in 2010. |
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Right now, all they're saying is Q2 2010. That means any time between April 1st and June 30th.
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Originally Posted by dehartshadow
I see people talking about closed beta testing at the beginning of 2010, but has there been anything brought up about a given time frame as to when this will be out to play?
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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There are contacts (at least I think they are contacts) I have found on both sides that currently do nothing except talk to you. No missions, no "store" just a line or two when you click on them. It's possible that these could be the Rogue/Vigilante contacts when we're on the opposite side.|
Originally Posted by Shadow Wail
Then what is the point of becoming a Rogue/Vigilante if no one trusts you enough to give you a mission? What options do I have as a rogue? Will there be new rogue contacts on both sides or will I rely onnewspaper/radio missions?
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Also, there are missions marked solely for villains and for heroes, it's possible that only THOSE missions would be locked out for Rogues/Vigilantes. Meaning you could still get some missions from existing contacts, just not the ones deemed 'Hero/Villain Only'.
Then again, I could be completely wrong. We'll just have to wait and see.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
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Not all game mechanics require an in-game canon explanation, especially since winning bids and source of items is invisible.|
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
If there were you'd, according to story cannon, be trading across dimensions.
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So while you'd be trading across "sides" in the backend server code, there's no reason we'd need an in-game story justification for how the game handles that sort of thing.
as it is, plenty of things are hard to justify with in-game canon explanations and we kind just handwave them away. Things far more intrusively obvious than where a mysterious item in a market comes from.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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ksry if i this has been answered but iv been skiming through this.
but as to why would you want to fully become a villion or hero instead of staying in the middle well one reason i can think of is the badges
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There are lots of reasons you'd want to become one or the other. For starters, there is no real "middle" beyond level 20 in Praetoria--you either lean towards being heroic or being villainous, so you're forced to pick either Hero or Villain from that point on. From there, you can become a Vigilante Hero or a Rogue Villain, which allows you to visit the opposing city.|
Originally Posted by Sqeak
why would you want to fully become a villion or hero instead of staying in the middle
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The reasons why you'd want to become a Vigilante or Rogue are:
- Easier to find teams, since you're not locked into either city
- Obtain badges from the opposing faction's side
- Roleplay reasons
The reasons why you'd want to shift entirely from Hero to Villain or vice versa are:
- To access the enemy's markets and/or trade with the opposing faction
- Roleplay reasons
- An undisclosed character improvement system to be released with Going Rogue that can power up a level 50 character (currently there's no concrete info on this, other than the fact that it's not just limited to more new Invention recipes)
I'm sure that lots of people have more reasons to add, but those are the big ones for each. And really, it all depends on what you as a player want to do with your characters.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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As far as I know, they said that you can be invited to teams, even if you can't get the contatcs yourself.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Also they've said there will be extra special perks for hero ATs that stay heroes and villain ATs that stay villiains. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
There are lots of reasons you'd want to become one or the other. For starters, there is no real "middle" beyond level 20 in Praetoria--you either lean towards being heroic or being villainous, so you're forced to pick either Hero or Villain from that point on. From there, you can become a Vigilante Hero or a Rogue Villain, which allows you to visit the opposing city.
The reasons why you'd want to become a Vigilante or Rogue are:
The reasons why you'd want to shift entirely from Hero to Villain or vice versa are:
I'm sure that lots of people have more reasons to add, but those are the big ones for each. And really, it all depends on what you as a player want to do with your characters. |
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hmmm thought someone just posted that. maybe not :P
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Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
Also they've said there will be extra special perks for hero ATs that stay heroes and villain ATs that stay villiains.
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Something I just thought of - at Hero Con, Positron mentioned Praetoria and its new tutorial, and that the tutorial modernizes the entry level experience - but wouldn't that only be useful for people starting off as Praetorians, unless they're planning on updating the Hero and Villain tutorials too?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Villian wealth is incredibly stratified due to the population discrepency over time vs blueside - so perhaps there is a way to devise a market response formula which allows blueside infl:drops to inform and respond to the infm:drops of redside to compensate for the low population. Perhaps it starts with linking premium rewards with populations in proportion to blueside - I don't have any popoulation numbers so, I dunno - lets throw out 33% of blueside population numbers = active redside population, so redside premium rewards drop 12% more often. As the population goes up, the increase in premium rewards reverts to normal (which is apparently the same for both factions). |
Originally Posted by Starcloud
Pay attention.
Individual villains might be able to buy anything on the market, but overall, the supply of things redside is lower. That means inf transferred from blueside to redside is going to be less than inf transferrred from redside to blueside. There simply are fewer villains than there are heroes. THis is a fact. In the aggregate, villains generate much less inf than heroes, just from the sheer weight of number. They generate fewer recipies, and less salvage. While, yes, inf under a merged market would flow freely between the sides, the fact is, prices for everything would rise. And with fewer villains playing, that means individuals redside would have a harder time paying for things from the merged market. Also, in a merged market situation, the flow of influence to infamy would quickly stabilize, leaving villains overall in a poorer position. Teams are generally the best/fastest way of generating influence and infamy. Have you tried to form teams redside? Let me tell you, most of the time, you cannot get a large team together, redside, unless there is an event of some kind running. Blueside, on the other hand, it is easy to get into a team. The developers have kept the markets separate, and it's a good thing they have. It keeps local market conditions local and doesn't force people to pay blueside prices, redside. |
Although, the goal of that would seem to be to increase villian population which kind of a one-liner in terms of major game changes. If the reward for playing a char through redside is an advantage over blueside reward-results it would only be in low and in-transition population periods, unless this formula also had a percentage cap and villians were permanently granted more frequent premium drops to account for a historical and projected population inequality. I guess a ratio of active blue vs redside populations would begin to provide a numberical start but it doesn't take into account how the factions USE their wealth, which may not be as straightforward as it seems.
@LostComet
-Repeat Offenders Network-
My opinion based on my years here.
Population
Heroes > Villains
Wealthiest Faction
Heroes > Villains
Wealthiest Individuals
Villains > Heroes
All merging the markets would do is cut prices for villains by more then half overall. It would also give heroes more money so they'd spend more. In turn it would balance out.
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Im about 90% sure Posi mentioned them updating the 'Tutorials and early game experience', without specifically saying 'Just in Praetoria'. So, I might be over-optimistic on that, but I would be guessing they are at least taking a look at the other tutorials as well.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Something I just thought of - at Hero Con, Positron mentioned Praetoria and its new tutorial, and that the tutorial modernizes the entry level experience - but wouldn't that only be useful for people starting off as Praetorians, unless they're planning on updating the Hero and Villain tutorials too?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Good, don't mind the red side tutorial, its the blue side one that <insert swear word here> me off |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Im about 90% sure Posi mentioned them updating the 'Tutorials and early game experience', without specifically saying 'Just in Praetoria'. So, I might be over-optimistic on that, but I would be guessing they are at least taking a look at the other tutorials as well.
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Would be good to see what the devs can do with it.
Ok, I dun see this subject covered, but I may have simply missed this entirely. As a base designer, it's kind of important to me to know...
::SG affiliations for Hero-vigilanties and Villain-rogues.::
It seems to me that if one of a hero group's members started committing criminal activities in a comic world, he wouldn't be long for the group, if he stayed at all. Similarly, an Agent of Arachnos that started to question his nations way of life would need to extricate himself fast or become eliminated. So my questions are the following:
1. When you start down the path to vigilantism/rougishness, do you lose the SG affiliations you had? Or will you be able to assign both a hero and a villain group to your character now, while in the grey zone?
2. If you lose said affiliation, are you able to create a Rogue/Vigilante supergroup populated by more of the same.
3. If you keep your prior existing supergroup, will you be able to earn the beacon badges from the opposing faction for that SG to make porters to? Will existing SG be able to make telepad to zones in Praetoria for those on the grey path? (EG. A hero base with a telepad to Cap au diablo, accessible by vigilante only.)
4. Will the praetorean born characters have a third SG/Base system that mirrors their Paragon/Rogue Island counterparts?
5. (I am sure the Developers are very tired of this subject coming up by now.) In the event of the return of SG raiding, The Cathedral of Pain Trial, and raid pathing, how would the third faction SGs affect such things?
I do apologize if I missed these answers, but comments, ideas, and more information will all help assuage my concerns here.
-Saya
A few things.
First of all, there should be a set of bonuses and penalties associated with every Faction of the morality Scale. Currently, as I understand it
Hero
PRO = Use Hero Contacts and Wentworths
CON = Cannot enter Rogue Isle
Vigilante
PRO = Use Hero Contacts and Wentworths, Can enter Rogue Isle to team
CON = Cannot use Black Market or Villain Contacts
Rogue
PRO = Use Villain Contacts and Black Market, Can enter Paragon City to team
CON = Cannot use Wentworths or Hero Contacts
Villain
PRO = Use Villain Contacts and Black Market
CON = Cannot enter Paragon City
If you merge the markets, theres little bonus to be a Hero or a Villain. Go and be a halfway-faction, whatever one it is. Sure, you could say The markets are merged, but you can only access them in your real zone. Granted, if you cant click on BM locations in the RI as a Vigilante, and have to hoof it back to Paragon to click on a WW, its a pain, but not that much of a deterrent.
Now, the next part is SUPPOSITION
On the original FAQ, there was a mention of 10 Generic Enhancement or some such. They also mentioned about bonuses for never having switched. Those, could, with some extrapolation (and a lot of hope) be one and the same, kinda.
Put in 10 ENH slots, available through quests. But, unless youre a pure Hero, or a pure Villain, they are greyed out.
If youre one of the in between factions, you get markets, and fluidity of access. Youre one of the extreme factions? You get better stats (i.e. the 10 ENH, or whatever bonus it is). That way, its not a permanent sucks to be you loss if you switch from pure Hero or Villain, but it does allow a reason to be one of the extreme factions, instead of everyone being Vigilante or Rogue (apart from Roleplay reasons of course).
Many others have mentioned this, but I hope the Devs read this and come up with a good reason thats a carrot (i.e. the ENH, or whatever post-50 bonus they were planning) to stay pure Hero, or pure Villain.
And, if you do it that way, Rogues and Vigilantes can access contacts of the opposite side (opposes the current FAQ, I know), but stats-mongers like me will feel the draw of being pure Hero or Villain, and theres a reason NOT to be grey.
OR, if you have to, make it a stick. If Rogue or Vigilante, sure, you have full access but are at 50% INF / PRES.
On another note, I hope you stay in your Super-Group, whether Hero or Villain, just from pure selfishness sake. For me, my wife and my friends, we have our mains we play 80%+ of the time, then we go between our 10+ alts each. Our main is our main PRES makers. Getting kicked out of the SG to access Villain Content with my Hero Fiery Redeemer
will hurt the guild. If thats how it goes, so be it. Itll restrict who I get to switch.
Personally, Id prefer a Pocket-D way of doing Super-Groups. Everyone has access. But, you can only go OUT through a portal, Teleport Pad, etc
that your faction allows. Rogue or Vigilante? Go anywhere. Hero? Can only go out through Paragon TP. Villain? Only through RI pads. Thats it.
And, roleplay wise, I do remember WAY back that Magneto and Professor X were once on the same X-men team for a real life year or two. Magneto even led the New Mutants for a while (not that the brats ever listened). (Yeah, I know. That dates me.)
Finally, practicality wise, everyone can stay and play together. Considering how much they are trying to keep players together more easily (see Super-Side-kicking), Im hoping the SG thing will follow suit.
ALL speculation and conjecture, only to be finalized in Q2 2010, but still, interesting to think about
Hi:
I am looking forwards to going Rogue, if the advertisement is true where your Villains can turn to Rogues and then turn to Heroes. I would like to learn more about that process, anyone have any info or can point me out to it thru a thread?
My original thoughts are:
1. Villain side cost for salvage and recipies are way more expensive than blue side.
2. Convert my Villains to Heroes, fully IO set them as heroes
3. Revert back to Villain
That is my basic gameplan for "Going Rogue", if the expansion will not let me do that, I am not sure havig a new origin (Praetorian) with a zone or two to allow me to reach 20 is worth the $50 for the expansion.
Hugs
Stormy
There is going to be a crapload more than that. Marketing is just keeping a lid on things, so there isn't much to talk about yet. At the very least, there are new zones, villain groups, stories, badges, and powersets. You are not going to pay $50 for a new tutorial.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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You got that right! I am not going to pay $50 for a new tutorial :<)|
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
There is going to be a crapload more than that. Marketing is just keeping a lid on things, so there isn't much to talk about yet. At the very least, there are new zones, villain groups, stories, badges, and powersets. You are not going to pay $50 for a new tutorial.
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I really hope there are new meaningful content, power sets would be cool, villain group sets lets hope they go from 1 to 50 and not just to 20, same with stories hope they got stories all the way to 50.
We need more 50 content, and TF/SFs that are reasonable length ones and challenge such as ITF and LGTF for collaborative, and lenghts similar to Citadel/Manticore for blue side, and equivalent to these in red side with as many merits as well. I don't want new TF/SFs like the Dr.Q or dumb ones like Khan where you go thru so much bs and then get an insulting 20 merits for it.
Stormy
I could be terribly wrong about this, but i was under the impression that the "Hero" or "Villain" in missions meant that they affected your standing as a hero or villain once they were completed (do a "Hero" mission and you're one step closer to the blue side). If that's the case, I assume AE missions don't affect this? I know it's very unlikely that they will, just thought I'd check.
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/