GR Market Info from Hero-Con
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2009-10-24 24:58 in The Market and Inventions
Their wrongheaded insistence on segregated markets looks even more ridiculous in an expansion explicitly built around factional permeability.
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My City Was Gone
We definitely need more info, as the Praetorian content is supposedly only 1-20.
Perhaps they meant only the new player content, as that would sure put a damper on who can switch sides.
Edit -yup GR thread now says that there is content in GR going up to 50.
Looks to me like Paragon Studios just lost 2 sales on their product. My wife and I won't be buying Going Rogue unless/until the markets are merged. My semi-retired villians will be going into permanent retirement and may be heading to the trash bin.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
This, quite frankly, sucks. There is no legitimate reason short of RP why the markets should not be merged, and RP reasons are generally weak to begin with.
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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Not quite sure what this means. Any guesses/explanation/2012 doomsday predictions? |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
All rogues and vigilantes would eventually leave praetoria and go into the rogue isles/paragon (with access to both)
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I'm assuming it means that if you start in Praetoria and you "switch sides," you'll have access to all the hero and villain zones upon leaving Praetoria if you choose to do so.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Agree. It would be a great time to merge the markets, and I think with Praetoria, most of the player base would understand why it had to be merged.
Here's what's really ridiculous about this. You can get reformed enough to go from the RI to Paragon, team there, etc, rack up stuff, and then when you sell, you have to sell on the BM.
If enough villains reform, this will almost certainly improve the BM, but only villains will be able to do so, and only those who reform.
Here's the really interesting part. Will a reformed villain (or fallen hero) be able to trade with teammates on their new side? If so, there's your in. You've "merged" the markets through that channel. If not, all I can say is wow, this won't live up to expectations at all. Not because I was specifically looking for that ability from GR. But because I despise not being able to trade things even now.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I can't quote anything here because it was at the 5 year anniversary chat with Posi on the EU test server, and i've lost all my chat logs.
But, when asked about a market merge, he said they won't look at doing it until there's not such a huge gap between villain and hero earned inf.
I'll try find someone with the chat log or the post made on the old EU forums.
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I really doubt they'll allow cross-faction trades, even if you're "technically" on the same side. They're really adamant about not merging the markets so I don't think they'd let such a glaring issue persist. I honestly think the market thing is their way of making sure the villain market doesn't go dry when all the villains go heroside to take advantage of higher population and more content.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
Here's what's really ridiculous about this. You can get reformed enough to go from the RI to Paragon, team there, etc, rack up stuff, and then when you sell, you have to sell on the BM.
If enough villains reform, this will almost certainly improve the BM, but only villains will be able to do so, and only those who reform. Here's the really interesting part. Will a reformed villain (or fallen hero) be able to trade with teammates on their new side? If so, there's your in. You've "merged" the markets through that channel. If not, all I can say is wow, this won't live up to expectations at all. Not because I was specifically looking for that ability from GR. But because I despise not being able to trade things even now. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Even from an RP stand point it's ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by macskull
This, quite frankly, sucks. There is no legitimate reason short of RP why the markets should not be merged, and RP reasons are generally weak to begin with.
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Example 1: I live in Los Angeles and I do every thing required to move to New York. I move to New York, live in New York, work in New York but have to go back to LA to Shop.
Example 2: I'm a villain, I travel down the path of reform. I still have the raw power to level entire city blocks but I'm good guy now. Good enough that no one back in the Isles trusts me and I've applied for and gotten my security clearances to work in, and fight crime in, Paragon City BUT my security clearances STILL AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH to buy honestly earned and manufactured widgets from the store in the City. I still have to go back to my evil ways of stealing, fencing, buying stolen goods, selling stolen goods, trading stolen goods, etc. to build my IO enhancements?
WTH?!?!?
We've been told for how long now that it's all one game? Yet, clearly and ridiculously, it isn't.
Someone (or several someones) at Paragon Studios needs to go have their heads surgically removed from their rear ends.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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this attitude makes no more sense now than it did when they initially floated it.
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Originally Posted by Rent_
But, when asked about a market merge, he said they won't look at doing it until there's not such a huge gap between villain and hero earned inf.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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booooooo!!!!!
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Originally Posted by panzerwaffen
fyi...
Going Rogue System
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Let's see villians showed up in Issue 5 and inventions and the market in issue 9. Eleven issues later and we are still so far away from parity that no merger is possible? Shouldn't 5 issues to eliminate the headstart have been enough unless there is something wrong red side?|
Originally Posted by Rent_
I can't quote anything here because it was at the 5 year anniversary chat with Posi on the EU test server, and i've lost all my chat logs.
But, when asked about a market merge, he said they won't look at doing it until there's not such a huge gap between villain and hero earned inf. I'll try find someone with the chat log or the post made on the old EU forums. |
That sends a clear message to me that the steps (if any) that the devs have taken have failed or at any rate are working so poorly that parity may never be reached.
Either villian earning rates ARE too far distant from hero earning rates that heros continue to pull ahead or villian rates are the same and they will NEVER reach parity.
In either case the devs need to take some positive action if they want the 2 games to really be one game as they claim that it all ready is. They've dropped the ball on this.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Vigilantes can only access wentworth's, and rogues can only access the black market
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*Infini-facepalm*
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That whole train of logic is derailed at the station anyway.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Let's see villians showed up in Issue 5 and inventions and the market in issue 9. Eleven issues later and we are still so far away from parity that no merger is possible? Shouldn't 5 issues to eliminate the headstart have been enough unless there is something wrong red side?
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Anyone can roll a new villain or hero and be filthy rich in short order, starting from zero. Heck, you can do it without earning a single XP! Give my villains access to Wents and they'll be drowning in profit in no time.
And as we've mentioned here time and time again, if the poor, widdle villain market needs protection from the big, mean hero market...then every server should have their own market. Poor widdle Triumph is being taken advantage of every day by big, mean Freedom, after all!
Won't they think of the children!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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We were told that here on these boards by our community rep at the time.|
Originally Posted by Rent_
But, when asked about a market merge, he said they won't look at doing it until there's not such a huge gap between villain and hero earned inf.
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It's a self failing prophecy. There's no way for the villains to catch up on inf, because there aren't as many of them. Either it's an oblique way of saying "it'll never happen," or a view into radical inability about basic math.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I really don't see how this position is sustainable. I mean, I can see it being sustained, but it'd be healthier for red and blue-side, and opening the market overall would see the parity that Positron is looking for.
And by sustainable, I mean healthy for the black market.
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I have to say, this is never something that's bothered me greatly - this is possibly because I barely touch blue-side and only really know the villain market, and I get along just fine with it as-is.
However, if we want the two sides to reach parity, surely opening the market is the only way to do it? Sure, things will become unsettled and prices will jump around all over the place for a bit, but things would doubtless calm down, as they always do after something shakes the market around.
Also, the trading issue would just be beyond ridiculous - it's irritating enough as-is not being able to give insps to people you're running the ITF with.
I don't see how it'd be that difficult to explain away in-game, either; in real life, stolen and otherwise illegitimate goods end up being bought and sold by non-criminals all the time, and legitimate goods certainly make their way onto the black market. Especially given the blue-side market is an auction house - maybe they're just not that good at verifying their sources, maybe the unseen middle men are good at making themselves look legit when they meet with the Wentworth's buyers.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Their wrongheaded insistence on segregated markets looks even more ridiculous in an expansion explicitly built around factional permeability.
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I really REALLY agree with the Goat on this one... why would they NOT experiment here in RL??
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Looks to me like Paragon Studios just lost 2 sales on their product. My wife and I won't be buying Going Rogue unless/until the markets are merged. My semi-retired villians will be going into permanent retirement and may be heading to the trash bin.
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I gotta tell you I am sooooo there with you. After playing this game since July 2004 and seeing most of my friends leave the game has become boring to me. I was hoping that RL would spark some interest including a shared market of some sort.
Seeing that that is not going to be the case I am going to actively look for some other place to spent my entertainment dollars
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That's the main question I have after looking all this over. Being unable to give inspirations or anything else to teammates sucks. We deal with this with shared content already. I have a hard time believing they'd implement that for side switchers as well, but I guess we'll have to wait to see.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Here's the really interesting part. Will a reformed villain (or fallen hero) be able to trade with teammates on their new side?
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It seems to me that the only way they could implement it would be to allow trading items but not inf. That would allow them to keep the wall up between the inf disparity between sides while still allowing trading. There would be people moving items between markets but the inf would stay segregated.
It seems ridiculous any way they might do it though. GR would be the ideal opportunity to merge the markets. That they've decided not to do it does not bode well for it ever happening.
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This is my biggest concern at this point too.. As shortsighted (and stupid, frankly) as it is to not just go ahead and merge the markets, if they don't allow trading between Heroes/Rogues & Villains/Vigilantes that are on the same damn side, that would eclipse stupid and go right into full retard.|
Originally Posted by Supernumiphone
That's the main question I have after looking all this over. Being unable to give inspirations or anything else to teammates sucks. We deal with this with shared content already. I have a hard time believing they'd implement that for side switchers as well, but I guess we'll have to wait to see.
It seems to me that the only way they could implement it would be to allow trading items but not inf. That would allow them to keep the wall up between the inf disparity between sides while still allowing trading. There would be people moving items between markets but the inf would stay segregated. It seems ridiculous any way they might do it though. GR would be the ideal opportunity to merge the markets. That they've decided not to do it does not bode well for it ever happening. |
And on a side note, since this one really bugs me as well, giving dual pistols what sounds like a copy of Rain of Arrows, is frakkin' lazy & completely off the reservation as far as verisimilitude and suspension of disbelief goes.
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Dual Pistols Targeted AoE (?): Character fires bullets in the air that somehow then rain down on his opponents. |
Clearly the smartest move is merging the markets. Maybe when they do that, they could implement price caps to protect the villains? 
More seriously, if there's such a large inf disparity, why not just amp up inf drops for villains? I can get rich on either side. The start-up funds needed to do so are no different. The only difference I see if going from "wealth enough" to "offensively rich" takes longer redside due to less activity. Once you hit that higher level, though, there is again no significant difference that I see. Merging would increase activity in an overall market, which means more competition, meaning potentially better pricing for all users of the market. Avoiding a merger at this point seems more pointless than it has in the past.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
FYI...
Going Rogue System