More heroic heroes, please

First, I should address the "heroic" comment. Yeah, cops and soldiers are (or can be-- I wouldn't say it's automatic) heroic, even if they kill. I can also see Wolverine as being heroic, despite how he would disembowel people. But I am referring more to the "heroic ideal" that says life is precious and that defeating an enemy in a non-lethal way is better than killing him. Do *I* always think that way? No. Some criminals in the real world deserve every bad thing thrown their way and more. I have no issue with that. But for a character who maintains that Heroic Ideal, killing isn't really a option.

Also, it was suggested that super strength is lethal, because you can pick up and throw a truck, or whatever. Sure, true. Spiderman has commented that he has to pull his punches on normal people so as not to kill them. My super strength guy isn't going to punch a low-level Skull with the force he'd use to topple a building. So that's a stupid argument. And I *have* made a character who uses rubber bullets and my dual blade brute (who is undercover as a villain) has "ghost blades" that cause more mental damage than physical. They don't kill, even if thrust through a person's heart.

So, of course everything can be rationalised and explained away.

All I am saying is that I would like some more non-lethal options for characters who feel that killing is, you know, kind of bad.

Last I heard, more options were good.

Ever since I first saw Donatello on Ninja Turtles, I've always wanted a Bo staff.

Please devs, give us really big sticks to whack people with, please?

Oh, for the love of... What is with you, people? How did me saying

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow For instance, in the 90s Fox cartoon X-Men, Wolverine spends the bulk of his time KICKING people, and on the off chance he tries to slash them, he gets grabbed by his wrists like a woman. In the immortal words of the great poet: lame!

Prompt the rep comment:

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The vaguely sexist comment about Wolverine's wrists being grabbed like a womans seemed uncalled for.

What is with this sudden explosion of straw feminism? Is someone specifically stalking me just so that he/she/it can accuse me of sexism? Think about fiction, think about comic books, think about your run-of-the-mill damsel in distress. When she is kidnapped by the bad guy, how does it happen? One of three ways.

1. He slings her over his shoulder with her beating her fists on his back to no effect.
2. He grabs her by the upper arm and walks her off.
3. She tries to stab him with a knife, he grabs her by the wrist and either knocks her back or takes her knife away.

This is standard damsel in distress practice which continues to be used to this day, and I don't feel that's any big example of sexism so much as expression of how a weak but good character is overpowered by a strong, evil one. It's not even restricted to a woman being kidnapped by a man. I've seen the reverse more than a few times, but that's not the point. I referenced a commonly-held convention so that I wouldn't have to explain it. You know, exactly like I'm explaining it now.

What is with you people? Is mentioning a woman in any context not insultingly patronising now seen as sexist? I got chastised for NOT mentioning women already, so you're not exactly giving me a lot of room to work here.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

A few general points that help me, personally, come to terms with the fact that my heroes arrest the hell out of people with bullets, swords, and fireballs to the face:

Paragon City's hospital system is really, really good. Seriously. My heroes can, and frequently do, take missiles, swords, bullets, energy blasts, fireballs, lightning bolts, toxic acid and the like to the chest in amounts that necessitate a teleport to the hospital - trauma that would almost certainly kill him or her if left untreated - and have these wounds treated in mere seconds thanks to the magical Rikti-based reclamator rings. My hero pops out fit as a fiddle, ready for a fight, and still just as ruggedly handsome as before, despite the fact that without this treatment, they would have survived for just a few minutes more. Presumably, we give criminals access to the same medical care, and this is where they go when they disappear from the screen after they've had the bajeesus arrested out of them.

Criminals are tough in this game. Like, really tough. Even the lowliest street gangs out there - the Hellions and Skulls - have some metahuman ties. My level 1 AR Blaster can put five or six bullets into a Hellion and he might still be able to get up and swing his knife at me. In this game, lethal force isn't actually that lethal against the enemies you're fighting. Just as even the squishiest of heroes can get shot, stabbed, fireballed, hit with a sledgehammer, and electrocuted more than once, villains can take it. So go ahead and put a bullet in that Fallen Gunner. He's still going to get back up and shoot at you until you put a few more in.

There are an awful lot of rescidivists in Paragon City. By the OP's observation, there are a lot of heroes with lethal-style powers out there. On their way to Hero of the City, they will end up 'arresting to death' thousands (tens of thousands?) of villains. Given the number of heroes that use swords, guns, fireballs and such, this adds up to a whole lot of villains... if even a small-but-significant fraction of these heroes is being killed as a result of this arrest, we're looking at a whole lot of dead criminals in a week. There's no way that this is happening on a regular basis. Most criminals 'arrested' by heroes probably survive and enter the justice system relatively unharmed, or we simply wouldn't tolerate costumed heroes arresting people for loitering with their broadswords.

Yes, I am aware that this is is stretching suspension-of-disbelief way, way too far. But that's the point of discussions like these, no?

Another thing I would point out is that if your hero has lethal powers they didn't pick, like a mutation that lets you throw fire balls, sprout sharp spines, or emit surges of electricity, and they're that interested in making sure that the actions they take are non-lethal, they probably wouldn't be using their abilities to fight crime in the first place. If they went into Hero work at all, it probably wouldn't be with the fire, globs of acid, or lightning bolts they can throw without thinking about it.

However, despite the subject line, I don't think the OP is about wanting more 'heroic' heroes at all, but rather about wishing there were more non-lethal powerset or weapon customization options out there. In which case, I'd agree that more options are always a good thing and would even be happy to see something like this come to the game... but given the amount of work involved in making a new powerset, I doubt we'll see something specifically catering to non-lethally minded players unless it gets a whole lot of support. Because it's not that hard for most people to watch their cartoony, pixelated hero riddle a pursesnatcher with slugs from his assault rifle and call it an arrest.

This topic is tha lulz. I'm european and i dont know why i was under the impression that someone from usa would ask for a more gore and violence regarding powersets.
Anyway, here's a few powersets that follow a less violent line :
Friendship
powers like : kiss and make up, pat on shoulder, hang out in the mall, hug, aoe cookie sharing, wedgie master
Jehova's witness
powers like : mighty cure, jesus is your friend, holy preach, etc
Talkmaster
powers like : boring joke, lame comedy standup, talk a villain down, mass preach about conspiracies
Chuck Norris manipulation
powers like : this one only has the power of chuck norris. the reason why this power is not actually in the game is for the simple fact that this is actually the god mode.
The list of harmless powersets could go on .... but really, you should play a controller or defender.

Last year I remember at least one person being trampled to death at a Wal Mart and a man being gunned down at a Toys R Us.

According to Paragonwiki, obtaining a hero license gives a hero the same rights basic rights as the PPD.

If that's the case, you realize police officers are allowed to use lethal force when they are attacked. Which, is exactly what the enemies do to the heroes.

I kind of feel for the OP, but there are RP workarounds. The implied lethality of a lot of Hero powers is pretty easy to overlook, compared to the overwhelming heroic bias to all co-op content and a great deal of Villain content. I could level a character from 1-50 redside easily on standard non-AE content, without visiting newspapers any more often than is necessary to get new contacts, and never face a Hero except for the hugely overused Longbow faction in Mayhem Missions.

Dechs Kaison asked me to make a list both in the thread and through the Rep system... so blame him... I wasn't going to do it... honest.... ... really..

Anyway... Heroes have one major weapon when it comes to their powers potential lethality.... Rationalization.

So... Rationalizations heroes may use:

* Fire Blaster - "He looked like he'd taken a chill."

* Radiation Defender - "Did you know that 1 in 20 people have some form of cancer? It may sound like long odds but research has proven that quick radiation therapy can eliminate cancerous cells."

* Dual Blades Scrapper - "Look... how can I expect my customers to buy a set of my steak knives without demonstrating them first?!"

* Battle Axe Tank - "He was dressed in a tree costume when I got here... really..." OR "The Devouring Earth have secret agents EVERYWHERE."

* Fire Controller - "Hey, I warned him that my powers weren't as good as a self-tanning bed but he just HAD to look good for his date with a Hellion's Girlfriend tonight."

* Spines Scrapper - "I'm not used to having foot long spikes bursting out of my body yet and he startled me... several times... in rapid succession."

* Broadsword Scrapper - "Oh! You mean I should hit them with the FLAT of the blade! Okay, I'll try that next time."

* Sonic Blaster - "Don't you try to change the subject on me... Does or does not the Constitution protect my Freedom of Speech?!"

* Claws Scrapper - "I'm a frikkin claws Scrapper... screw your rationalizations... I like to kill things."

* Plant Controller - "Have you seen the prices on good quality fertilizer these days?"

* Assault Rifle Blaster - "The claws Scrapper made me do it."

* Archery Blaster - "I keep missing the NON-vital organs."