Statesman's great mistake in CoH

rian_frostdrake · 10-06-2009 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus

Then send in the Brutes instead. Never send a hero to do a villain's job.

or we could get the job done right and sent in a platoon of plant dominators. a mass seeds of confusion would turn all of their fancy tech and mental tricks on one another, and if nothing else, we could all throw carrion creepers and lag them all out of the game.

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Diggis · 10-06-2009 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman

Or you could just send in the Tankers, and seal the dimension off for the 1.5 million years it would take us to kill (er, defeat) them all.

You think us blasters are going to wait while you herd a planet? I can't wait while you herd a room.

Scarlet Shocker · 10-06-2009 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood

How do you sharpen a rifle? *confused*

with a damnzn00b? ;-)

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Defenestrator · 10-06-2009 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidius

I think your reference may have been too obtuse for this crowd S_H

Take it easy. These kids were in grade school at the time, and as for me... I'm not a fighter, I'm a lover.

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Noxilicious · 10-06-2009 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Spectre

Words.

Actually, I'm pretty sure on the Rikti Homeworld the Rikti military only had a short burst of influence after Nemesis set his plot in motion. I can't remember off the top of my head, but then again, information on the Rikti Homeworld is scarce.

But even on earth, the Rikti Military is struggling. A significant faction of Traditionalist would rather engage in peace treaties than keep fighting, and the Restructurists are so thinned out that they started recruiting desperate human hobos into their rank, and let's not forget the only reason the Restructurists are still going at all is because their Lord of War is showing some un-Rikti-like thoughts and he still has followers because defiance and rebellion are virtually unknown to Ritki, too.

Plus, we totally know that I28 will feature the next paid expansion, City of Aliens.

EnigmaBlack · 10-06-2009 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster

You remember that thing we had about seven years ago called the Rikti War? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross 5th Dimension and push those algae-eaters back to the Great Wall of Kun'Ger Ke'ee? Then take that wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? SAY IT! SAY IT!

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His mistake? Not sending in Chuck Norris...

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Nightphall · 10-06-2009 06:15 AM

To respond to an above post as to why we couldn't win the Rikti War without IOs......

Didn't the war happen before ED? The heroes then wouldn't have needed them. I wasn't around pre-ED, but I heard several powersets were good......too good. (Pre-ED Invulnerability is one that I hear about often.)

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EnigmaBlack · 10-06-2009 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightphall

To respond to an above post as to why we couldn't win the Rikti War without IOs......

Didn't the war happen before ED? The heroes then wouldn't have needed them. I wasn't around pre-ED, but I heard several powersets were good......too good. (Pre-ED Invulnerability is one that I hear about often.)

Pre-Ed and homerun derby style nerfbat, I'd say Regen

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je_saist · 10-06-2009 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster

You remember that thing we had about seven years ago called the Rikti War? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross 5th Dimension and push those algae-eaters back to the Great Wall of Kun'Ger Ke'ee? Then take that wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? SAY IT! SAY IT!

Somebody already beat me to a line about Heroes not being the ones to think about Genocide. Heroes also are unlikely to think about breaking regulations and rules. If you're familiar with the story-line of CoH, Heroe's weren't always accepted with open-arms by the communities of the world. In many cases, beings with meta or super-powers are still viewed with suspicion, hatred, disgust, and other negative emotions.

While Supergroups, Anti-Heroes, and Aliens are more accepted in today's Paragon City... the rest of the world treats the quarantined zone with a bit of... distrust?

Statesman alone wasn't responsible for the fight against the Rikti. He worked with a wide range of other organizations and super-powered beings directly. As such, I'm not really sure he can be faulted with not wiping out the Rikti when he was probably physically capable of doing so. As was revealed in the external comments, Statesman's Freedom Phalanx aren't really the optimum group for taking the fight to the Rikti to begin with.

Was it a mistake for the Power's of Paragon City's Dimension to not wage war against the Rikti? Or against the 5th Column? Or against the Praetorians?

In some aspects... yes. In other aspects, a peace treaty with the majority of the Homeworld Rikti Society is within reach... as those who play through the RWZ arcs find out. Perhaps once the Rikti Lord of War is defeated once and for all, a genuine peace can be discussed, and we'll find out what super-powered threats the Rikti face in their world.

AzureSkyCiel · 10-06-2009 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack

His mistake? Not sending in Blue Steel...

Fix'd that for ya.

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Arnabas · 10-06-2009 06:45 AM

This thread had me just watch at least half an hour of Sam on youtube.

Est sularis oth Mithas

MrPlayskool · 10-06-2009 07:23 AM

Fact: The Rikti War was instigated by Chuckie Cheese robots from Primal Earth.

Glacier_Peak · 10-06-2009 07:39 AM

The rikiti arent bad. Nemesis just went and send robots that looked like earth heroes to their world and made the rikiti think we were invading them.

So they sent their forces to earth to stop what they thought was the invading forces home. And they're allergic to chicken pocs.

Carnifax · 10-06-2009 07:44 AM

Didn't it go like this :

Synapse: Let's just bug out and call it even, OK? What are we talking about this for?
Manticore: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Synapse: ******' A...
Statesman: Ho-ho-hold on, hold on one second. This portal has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
Manticore: They can *bill* me.

Tired Angel · 10-06-2009 08:10 AM

Genocide or not - I think it would be cool if their was a new hazard zone (or two) that took place on the Rikti homeworld with its own TF

Or we could always send in the Fire/Kin trollers to farm the planet to death!

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MentalMaden · 10-06-2009 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidius

Edit:

All right, I'll say it - 'cause Statesman was too much of a p***y wimp to let Vanguard go in there and blow out those alien bastards!!!

(Link probably NSFW due to language)

Oh I didn't know you wanted to get in on the discussion Mr. Helper.

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Grae Knight · 10-06-2009 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster

You remember that thing we had about seven years ago called the Rikti War? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross 5th Dimension and push those algae-eaters back to the Great Wall of Kun'Ger Ke'ee? Then take that wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? SAY IT! SAY IT!

__________________
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidius

Edit:

All right, I'll say it - 'cause Statesman was too much of a p***y wimp to let Vanguard go in there and blow out those alien bastards!!!

(Link probably NSFW due to language)

Ah, the classics.

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Golden Girl · 10-06-2009 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack

His mistake? Not sending in Blue Steel...

Fixed, for game universe reasons.

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Golden Girl · 10-06-2009 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired Angel

Genocide or not - I think it would be cool if their was a new hazard zone (or two) that took place on the Rikti homeworld with its own TF

It could be some sort of high end raid - several teams get sent through portals to strike at targets on the Rikti homeworld, so there'd be several objectives that had to worked on at the same time - maybe make it open to 50s only, and balance it towards the 50s who have used the GR end game stuff to become much more powerful.
Call it an Omega raid, in honor of the first heroes who went there

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Dark_Respite · 10-06-2009 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

It could be some sort of high end raid - several teams get sent through portals to strike at targets on the Rikti homeworld, so there'd be several objectives that had to worked on at the same time - maybe make it open to 50s only, and balance it towards the 50s who have used the GR end game stuff to become much more powerful.
Call it an Omega raid, in honor of the first heroes who went there

Aw, crap. Now I wanna make a mock-up ad for this. Except I can't think of a map that would work that might look like the Rikti Homeworld.

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Golden Girl · 10-06-2009 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Respite

Aw, crap. Now I wanna make a mock-up ad for this. Except I can't think of a map that would work that might look like the Rikti Homeworld.

The only Rikti buildings we've seen so far are those two tower things with the walkways in one of the cave rooms of the Rikti maps - but it'd be hard to do shots there to make it look like it was outside.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Satanic_Hamster · 10-06-2009 09:52 AM

[QUOTE=je_saist;2303367]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster

You remember that thing we had about seven years ago called the Rikti War? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross 5th Dimension and push those algae-eaters back to the Great Wall of Kun'Ger Ke'ee? Then take that wall apart brick by brick and nuke them back into the stone age forever? Tell me why! How come? SAY IT! SAY IT!
/QUOTE]

Somebody already beat me to a line about Heroes not being the ones to think about Genocide. Heroes also are unlikely to think about breaking regulations and rules. If you're familiar with the story-line of CoH, Heroe's weren't always accepted with open-arms by the communities of the world. In many cases, beings with meta or super-powers are still viewed with suspicion, hatred, disgust, and other negative emotions.

While Supergroups, Anti-Heroes, and Aliens are more accepted in today's Paragon City... the rest of the world treats the quarantined zone with a bit of... distrust?

Statesman alone wasn't responsible for the fight against the Rikti. He worked with a wide range of other organizations and super-powered beings directly. As such, I'm not really sure he can be faulted with not wiping out the Rikti when he was probably physically capable of doing so. As was revealed in the external comments, Statesman's Freedom Phalanx aren't really the optimum group for taking the fight to the Rikti to begin with.

Was it a mistake for the Power's of Paragon City's Dimension to not wage war against the Rikti? Or against the 5th Column? Or against the Praetorians?

In some aspects... yes. In other aspects, a peace treaty with the majority of the Homeworld Rikti Society is within reach... as those who play through the RWZ arcs find out. Perhaps once the Rikti Lord of War is defeated once and for all, a genuine peace can be discussed, and we'll find out what super-powered threats the Rikti face in their world.

Man.

WOah.

I mean, like, man...

While a few people in the thread have had to duck to avoid the joke flying over their heads, I'd have to guess that the joke is entering low orbit as is passes over you.

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Obsidius · 10-06-2009 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by je_saist

Somebody already beat me to a line about Heroes not being the ones to think about Genocide. Heroes also are unlikely to think about breaking regulations and rules. If you're familiar with the story-line of CoH, Heroe's weren't always accepted with open-arms by the communities of the world. In many cases, beings with meta or super-powers are still viewed with suspicion, hatred, disgust, and other negative emotions.

While Supergroups, Anti-Heroes, and Aliens are more accepted in today's Paragon City... the rest of the world treats the quarantined zone with a bit of... distrust?

Statesman alone wasn't responsible for the fight against the Rikti. He worked with a wide range of other organizations and super-powered beings directly. As such, I'm not really sure he can be faulted with not wiping out the Rikti when he was probably physically capable of doing so. As was revealed in the external comments, Statesman's Freedom Phalanx aren't really the optimum group for taking the fight to the Rikti to begin with.

Was it a mistake for the Power's of Paragon City's Dimension to not wage war against the Rikti? Or against the 5th Column? Or against the Praetorians?

In some aspects... yes. In other aspects, a peace treaty with the majority of the Homeworld Rikti Society is within reach... as those who play through the RWZ arcs find out. Perhaps once the Rikti Lord of War is defeated once and for all, a genuine peace can be discussed, and we'll find out what super-powered threats the Rikti face in their world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blood Spectre

Well, I for one am generally in favor of horrendously vile moral acts, but let's set that aside for the sake of co-operation for now.

While it's true that the Rikti traditionalists are horrified at the truth of the war, the vast majority of the Rikti populace still does not know the truth of Nemesis's culpability in the inter dimensional conflict. This information is being brutally supressed by the Rikti warlord Hro'Dtohz. Or however he spells it. And the military, the actual dangerous segment of Rikti culture, supports their general. We know the truth, but the Rikti do not, and as long as that ignorance persists, they remain a threat to you. I mean us. To us. To innocent people. Yes.

But here's another angle to look at it from. We're all used to Nemesis's shenanigans over here. The Rikti don't seem to have an extra dimensional counterpart to a schemer the likes of Nemesis. From their alien perspective, even if they knew the truth, there is the very real risk that they might quite logically conclude that even if most Primal Earthlings did want peace, the attack DID originate from one of our own. We haven't given Nemesis over to them for justice, nor are we ever likely to do so. Nemesis is a monster of our world that did great harm to them, and continues to wish them further harm. Even if they believed that we, as a world, tend to rebuke Nemesis and his followers, what is to stop another threat like him from rising to threaten their way of life yet again?

No, logically, even if as well informed as we are, I believe the Rikti would continue to present a very real threat to our world. And thus the best thing for all of us is to settle in for a long, grisly war with a nice high body count on both sides.

I love co-op.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnSub

Did everyone miss the memo that the Rikti weren't at fault for the invasion, so some sort of retribution against the Rikti homeworld would actually be a horrendously vile moral act?

I still remember people disagreeing with me that Nemesis and everyone in his organisation seriously should have been seriously squashed out of the game due to the kind of reaction that his machinations would attract from all sides (he'd come back of course, but I don't think he could have operated as openly as he still does). So, yeah: the Rikti were the victims here.

Statesman's greatest mistake is letting the Rogue Isles continue to operate.

Golden Girl · 10-06-2009 10:06 AM

Well, just like serious threads can turn silly, silly threads can turn serious

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konshu · 10-06-2009 10:31 AM

Defeating the Rikti on their own homeworld would not be easy. Remember that Paragon's medical teleportation technology is derived from Rikti tech. We can assume that Rikti defeated on the Rikti homeworld simply go to hospital.

So you may not be able to defeat the Rikti on their homeworld ... but clearly you can farm them. Just set scrappers and fire/kins outside each Rikti hospital.