I think I know why I have trouble getting to 50...
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-09-24 21:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
For me, 50 is a goal so I can completely IO the character.
I have several tiers where my desire to play a character often lowers or ceases altogether. Almost all of my characters have these stops, I have never gone to 50 with one character quickly, instead I put them down for a bit to play other things and come back to them later.
Not sure how to overcome it. Play what is fun and don't fret it is my philosophy. HEATS and VEATS are OK, but nothing to stress about missing out on, IMO.
Late teens
I have a tried out a good chunk of a primary and I have a good idea how the set is shaping out for me. At this point, gameplay alone normally ceases to be a compelling enough reason to keep playing most characters for me; so, unless the character has a good story, this is where it stops for awhile. I'll come back to the character either because friends are running in that level range or I have done some type of character developement in my head or I get re-interested in the gameplay of those sets.
I16 may very well have eliminated this, as I can't seem to not get to 20+ with any of my new characters (my tanker is 12, but I barely played it, should whip to 20 in no time based on my other experiences).
Late twenties
Gameplay of most sets is basically established. The most commonly used powers are generally acquired (and commonly used powers appeal to me greatly). I have run a few task forces and have a really solid idea how the set will play to 50 solo, teamed, vs. big spawns and vs. AVs. I usually make it to lvl 28 or 29, because that tier 7 secondary power intrigues me enough to make it and try it with a few slots. After that, once again, gameplay is now not enough to make me keep playing.
I'll come back to the character when I get an interest in the tier 9 of the primary or if I have a desire to see the 30-35 content or if I have further development of character.
Late thirties
Sometimes, it feels pretty obvious the game was designed to stop at level 40. My characters are now fully developed and all basic gameplay functions and behaviors exist. I frequently get stuck 36 or 37, most level 38 powers do not intrigue me enough to push that far. Usually, if I make it to 39, I end up making it into my early 40s. I rarely have characters sitting between 38 and 41, but have a plethora of 36-37 and 43-44 characters.
The Forties
I have only once truly pushed a character to 50. I really wanted to get a level 50 villain before VEATs came out, and pushed my Stalker from 38-50 in under two months. It only worked because I really enjoyed the content in those levels, in combination with my desire to try out a VEAT, and in addition to really liking the dimwitted-sociopath character (ironically, my VEAT, I only made one, is level 13).
I play my forties on whim or to hang with others or when I once again have a character development idea. Most of my 50s sat at 49 for a month or three.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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It's probably not likely that I can help, because I think this is going to come down to personality and preferences at a level that runs pretty deep. But I'll try to give some insight into how I look at things when I'm making a character and whatnot, in the hope it might trip over a switch somewhere in your brain and turn on an unused light.|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
Does anyone else share this problem or a similar one, or have any tips on how to overcome it? The toon I got to 45 I lvled with my brother and some other friends so that gave me the incentive to make it that far, but when I'm on my own I just tend to get burnt out by the time I get to the 30s.
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Late-game CoH is about incremental improvements. Each individual improvement isn't that impressive, so it's not very compelling to look forward to dings and new slots or power selections as they come. However, there's a lot of those little increments between, say, 30 and 50. You end up with a lot of slots, and depending on AT, you can end up with a few gems in your epic pools. (Armor toggles on squshies are a big deal to me.)
I plan for the long haul. I get a feel for what ordinary characters can do, and then try to do more. That means I start trying to add up all those little increments, the bonuses from IOs, the benefits from accolades, all to get to the point that where eventually I've got perks like 30% more HP than normal, all my powers use 3/8ths their base endurance, I can fight through a big spawn without running out of endurance, or I have more defenses than normal. Or all the above.
My sense of what's "super" isn't founded in the fiction of the game. All of our characters can run around and mostly shrug off bullets and explosions. No, what makes me feel super is when I feel like my characters are above expectations in the context of the game and its challenges. I get a sense of thrill in feeling like my characters can kick butt and take names. "I built that!"
Achieving that level of butt-kicking doesn't come easily in the mid-level game, though it can be done with the right builds. It's a lot easier in many ways to achieve it with a high-level character, who has many more slots and access to all their utility powers.
So since it's a (more) natural achievement for a high-level character, and its something I really enjoy, I am motivated to reach 50, and indeed, to play my 50s extensively.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I come up with a new character idea/costume that I find more compelling - probably just due to its newness - about every three weeks or so. This is why I only have one 50 on either side (red/blue) and many stalled out, usually in the 20-33 range. I love each and every one of them and do sometimes go back to them and play them for a bit, but...
Expand Epic/Patron Pools further and open them up at 32 or so.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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That's pretty much how it is for me at these levels. I'm coming towards the end of picking my "main" powers, my attack chains are full. At first I'm really excited about my new powers but eventually I just feel like I'm going through the motions.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Late twenties
Gameplay of most sets is basically established. The most commonly used powers are generally acquired (and commonly used powers appeal to me greatly). I have run a few task forces and have a really solid idea how the set will play to 50 solo, teamed, vs. big spawns and vs. AVs. I usually make it to lvl 28 or 29, because that tier 7 secondary power intrigues me enough to make it and try it with a few slots. After that, once again, gameplay is now not enough to make me keep playing. I'll come back to the character when I get an interest in the tier 9 of the primary or if I have a desire to see the 30-35 content or if I have further development of character. Late thirties Sometimes, it feels pretty obvious the game was designed to stop at level 40. My characters are now fully developed and all basic gameplay functions and behaviors exist. I frequently get stuck 36 or 37, most level 38 powers do not intrigue me enough to push that far. Usually, if I make it to 39, I end up making it into my early 40s. I rarely have characters sitting between 38 and 41, but have a plethora of 36-37 and 43-44 characters. |
I think one big factor that's effected my tanker is the fact that I've just picked up tough and weave in addition to 3 other toggles in my primary, and now my end bar feels like it did before I got stamina, and running any toon pre-stamina usually isn't a fun time.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's probably not likely that I can help, because I think this is going to come down to personality and preferences at a level that runs pretty deep. But I'll try to give some insight into how I look at things when I'm making a character and whatnot, in the hope it might trip over a switch somewhere in your brain and turn on an unused light.
Late-game CoH is about incremental improvements. Each individual improvement isn't that impressive, so it's not very compelling to look forward to dings and new slots or power selections as they come. However, there's a lot of those little increments between, say, 30 and 50. You end up with a lot of slots, and depending on AT, you can end up with a few gems in your epic pools. (Armor toggles on squshies are a big deal to me.) I plan for the long haul. I get a feel for what ordinary characters can do, and then try to do more. That means I start trying to add up all those little increments, the bonuses from IOs, the benefits from accolades, all to get to the point that where eventually I've got perks like 30% more HP than normal, all my powers use 3/8ths their base endurance, I can fight through a big spawn without running out of endurance, or I have more defenses than normal. Or all the above. My sense of what's "super" isn't founded in the fiction of the game. All of our characters can run around and mostly shrug off bullets and explosions. No, what makes me feel super is when I feel like my characters are above expectations in the context of the game and its challenges. I get a sense of thrill in feeling like my characters can kick butt and take names. "I built that!" Achieving that level of butt-kicking doesn't come easily in the mid-level game, though it can be done with the right builds. It's a lot easier in many ways to achieve it with a high-level character, who has many more slots and access to all their utility powers. So since it's a (more) natural achievement for a high-level character, and its something I really enjoy, I am motivated to reach 50, and indeed, to play my 50s extensively. |
Hopefully the incentive to eventually obtain these higher end builds will help,
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I have the exactly same problem, i'm getting bored in lvl 40-50, (though after slotting my 50's, i can't stop playing them).|
Originally Posted by Kurugi
So, I've managed to get quite a few toons into the 30's. I even managed to get up to 45 on one way back when, but I just can't seem to summon the willpower to push it all the way. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why. I thought I just simply got bored or found something else that caught my interested, and while that is part of the truth I think I've found out the missing piece to this puzzle...
Once you've gotten to 32+ you're pretty much "over the hill" when it comes to your powers. You've gotten the last power of your primary and probably have at least one or two more you're looking to grab from your secondary, so by 35-38 you're done with your primary/secondary powers. I think my problem is once I reach this stage there's nothing else I'm really looking forward to in the last 10 or so levels. Sure, I get my ancillary powers but they only seem to help round out my character and not really give it that "umph" that those last couple of powers in the primary/secondary sets give you. That's not to say that they're suppose to or that I wish they did, my only point is after 35-38 or so there's nothing really left that makes me go "oooh shiny, I can't wait for that". Does anyone else share this problem or a similar one, or have any tips on how to overcome it? The toon I got to 45 I lvled with my brother and some other friends so that gave me the incentive to make it that far, but when I'm on my own I just tend to get burnt out by the time I get to the 30s. |
The solution that works for me, is this : IO your lvl 40ish, with good sets (preferably in lvl 42), after that play with him every 10 days (wich means u have a full lvl of patrol XP). If ur difficulty set is +3-4 lvl (wich u will be able to handle with the good IO sets), u will ding in the next lvl very quick, even if u solo. The above works great especially in scrappers, but i've tested it in other AT's too.
defiant only
@amartia
my public list : http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/9355
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That's how it is for me. There's very little in the epic/patron pools that drives me nearly as much as a level 38 armor might, or a nuke on a defender, or the final buff/debuff on a Corruptor, Controller, or Mastermind. Hell, some of the ancillary pools (like basically every Scrapper one made before i16) don't have anything I'm all too interested in. Level 48+ is especially bad, since level 49 nets you a power that you can't possibly fully slot and level 50 gets you... three slots. Whoo boy. The vast majority of my characters get shelved by the low 40s, and even the ones that press through that often get stuck at 48 or 49 until I just jump on a LGTF or ITF.
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Originally Posted by Kurugi
I think my problem is once I reach this stage there's nothing else I'm really looking forward to in the last 10 or so levels. Sure, I get my ancillary powers but they only seem to help round out my character and not really give it that "umph" that those last couple of powers in the primary/secondary sets give you. That's not to say that they're suppose to or that I wish they did, my only point is after 35-38 or so there's nothing really left that makes me go "oooh shiny, I can't wait for that".
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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If you happen to be running a Kheldian with three or even two forms, you'll work for hours to take every slot you can get your hands on!|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
Level 48+ is especially bad, since level 49 nets you a power that you can't possibly fully slot and level 50 gets you... three slots. Whoo boy.
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Otherwise, yes, I agree with you.
My only redside 50 (bots/traps) made it there by pure greed... At level 32, I had every power and slot I wanted. But I wanted purples. I wanted merits. I wanted more prestige. I wanted it all. I ran ITFs and LGTFs like mad. Getting the exp was totally inconsequential to the end goal.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I wanted to get my first hero and villain to 50 to unlock EATs, but other than that I'm not really driven to get through the 40s. There are a couple of characters for which there is an available power in the Epic Pools which would round out their concept, and I want those, but for the rest it is not so important. And IOs don't interest me at all.
At that point I don't really have a goal in mind any more, but I may still play just to play them.
In my time here, I have exactly one 50. After I get that last costume slot, I have a tough time the final 10 levels.
Heh, the exact opposite of me. I have inumerable 50s, many of which only have thier original costume slot...
I really only enjoy playing my 50s nowdays. I havent started a new toon in over a year. I find once a toon hits 22 it doesnt take long till 50, but if I cant take the grind to 22 on a toon, it probably will never make it at all.
I do have a few stranded in the high 40s because they are kind of redundant powerset toons which I already have one or more 50s with the same primary or secondary. Most of the time I'd rather just play my IO'ed 50s instead of grinding out the last few levels, and then having to grind out building all the IO sets I need to finish them.
I've found plenty of short term goals to aim for in the forties, for my squishies at any rate.
Scrappers probaby get the least out of epics, but then again they need the least of any archetype.
Some powers I have drooled over...
At level 41:
PFF on a Blaster
Fireball on my first Controller.
Oppressive Gloom on two Defenders to date.
Fissure on my plant Controller.
Thunderstrike (the power) on my FF defender to slot Scirrocco's in and complete my 45% Psi defence masterplan!
Earth Immobilise on my Fire Tank to pair with Burn (never quite got there though, but it sounded good..)
At level 44:
Armours in general, but especially Charged Armour on my Sonic Defender.
Laser Beam Eyes will be a big draw for the right Tanker one day, just for concept.
Seismic Smash on my Plant Controller
Shocking bolt for a second hold for an Elec Blaster, or Char for a first hold for a Fire Blaster.
At level 47:
Force of Nature on my Blaster
Power Boost on my Fire/Rad Controllers
Rise of the Phoenix, although this really kicks in at 50.
On top of that, the 40's is a time for completing those odd sets and finishing off the IO bonuses. eg Taking Manouvers and slotting with Red Fortune, or Tactics with Gaussian's.
On top of that I find that most characters play really well in the forties - plowing through content with the odd panic moment more than covered by a big tray of 20 insps.
Of course, once they get to 50 I generally drop them like a ton of bricks and make a new alt, but I find that last leg very fun to play.
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I rarely find this problematic. I just take some power at this level that doesn't need more than 4 slots. Often, I can stick something there that will get by with one slot, and use the level 50 slots elsewhere entirely.
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
Level 48+ is especially bad, since level 49 nets you a power that you can't possibly fully slot and level 50 gets you... three slots.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I take my time getting the last handful of levels. I mostly watch the global channels and if someone is running an ITF or LGTF and is willing to take non-max-level toons, I'll switch and join. Do that enough times and you'll hit 50 with enough merits to help get you kitted out.
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Likewise, as a fairly new player for about six months, I have rolled only seven characters and only one of them has reached 50. I have others at 49, 45, 43 and 37, with two new ones (one a Peacebringer) reaching 20. I like to savor those last few levels, either in going in SG TF's/SF's or rigorously testing them solo in still-outstanding arcs at higher difficulty levels to verify their effectiveness.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I play my forties on whim or to hang with others or when I once again have a character development idea. Most of my 50s sat at 49 for a month or three.
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Also, taking your time to reach 50 can allow a character to build up some inf through a little market play and further enhance their sets and/or a respec revamp (which I also haven't done yet for any of the characters).
I go with character concept first, then carefully consider the primary/secondary power sets for how they might perform and complement each other, along with the character's versatility in combined solo/team play. So far, I haven't deleted any characters, satisfied with how they have unfolded over the levels. At this rate, I might not even use up the allotted free slots for new characters for years (even as more are given as veteran rewards!).
50? Sure, but I like to take my time, savoring the journey to reach it and play beyond it.
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Originally Posted by Kurugi
So, I've managed to get quite a few toons into the 30's. I even managed to get up to 45 on one way back when, but I just can't seem to summon the willpower to push it all the way. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why. I thought I just simply got bored or found something else that caught my interested, and while that is part of the truth I think I've found out the missing piece to this puzzle...
Once you've gotten to 32+ you're pretty much "over the hill" when it comes to your powers. You've gotten the last power of your primary and probably have at least one or two more you're looking to grab from your secondary, so by 35-38 you're done with your primary/secondary powers. I think my problem is once I reach this stage there's nothing else I'm really looking forward to in the last 10 or so levels. Sure, I get my ancillary powers but they only seem to help round out my character and not really give it that "umph" that those last couple of powers in the primary/secondary sets give you. That's not to say that they're suppose to or that I wish they did, my only point is after 35-38 or so there's nothing really left that makes me go "oooh shiny, I can't wait for that". Does anyone else share this problem or a similar one, or have any tips on how to overcome it? The toon I got to 45 I lvled with my brother and some other friends so that gave me the incentive to make it that far, but when I'm on my own I just tend to get burnt out by the time I get to the 30s. |
My game play changes in the 30's. Per 30, i solo the vast majority of my content. I may run a tf or two, but that's about it. Post 30, i tend to team the vast majority of the time. And that's when the game IMO really gets going. I have the MOSTfun in the late 40's to 50's.
I see my per 30 levels as my building block levels. getting all my key powers ready and slotted, so i can be an effective teammate. Then i IO up, and start TFing in my 30's. Add polish to my build in the mid 40's, and finish up. Start over.
Nearly 30 lvl 50's after 5.5 years of play. (I have 28 50's, and 3 guys lvl 45+ currently make the push) My system is fun and works for me.
And only ONE of them had any notable PLing done. An MM i just wanted to get into teaming range asap. He was my 3rd MM, so i didn't swet alittle PLing on him... >.>
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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Switf or Combat jumping are 9 times out of 10 my "throwaway" power at 49. Swift if i already have combat jumping, or combat jumping if i don't... for an Acc prog. The 3 lvl 50 slots are spent elseware.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I rarely find this problematic. I just take some power at this level that doesn't need more than 4 slots. Often, I can stick something there that will get by with one slot, and use the level 50 slots elsewhere entirely.
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@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
I get to 50 the same way I get to 32, mostly... playing with friends.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
For me its about making the character the best it can be within the concept I have designed them for, and reaching 50 is a part of that. I have tweaked builds many times even after hitting level 50 because I had a new idea or a better idea of how to use a power.
Its not just about powers. Slots are just as important because they allow you to utilize your powers more effectively. Granted slots arent as sexy as new powers but IMO they are just as important and although you dont get as many powers after level 38 being able to slot things effectively is a huge issue for me.
To me the character isnt complete until it hits 50. Iam about to respec my first two level 50's from five years ago all over again !!!
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I used to have the problem the OP had. Then IO's came out.
When I started digging into into IOs and min/max-ing builds, I found myself playing through the first 30 levels as fast as possible and focusing my efforts on the last 15 levels and beyond.
I find I solo for the first 35 levels and start to team more and more in the later game.
Nowadays I solo to level up my current project... usually playing through dev content, reading stories as I go at no real rush. I keep my costume fresh and interesting (to me anyway) and frequently tweak the build along the way with new enhancements funded by my market endeavors.
When someone on a global channel decides to start a high level content team, I switch to whichever 50 I feel like playing, then go back to the level up solo project when that team finishes/breaks up.
I think the big difference between where I was before, unable to make it much past 35 and where I am today is a better network of teaming opportunities for end game content, and a desire to make post-50 uber builds.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
I believe the game STARTS at 50. IO sets and all the good late game content and the fact that the best TFs are all late-game lead me to desire less and less to start from scratch. It's like there are two games:
Game 1: Leveling Up. You play from level to level, getting new powers and slotting standard IOs and SOs as you go along. Once you get to 50 and do the content there, well, you're done. The market is just a handy place to sell off any rare stuff you get.
Game 2: Crafting the Ultimate Hero/Villian. Anything before 50 is incidental. Once you get to 50, you spend all your time earning influence so you can get your perfect sets. You play the market to help with this. You hoard merits. You farm.
They are both a grind, I suppose, but at what level you are grinding is the main difference. I used to play Game 1... now I play Game 2. Sadly, one of my best buddies in real life who I play with is still playing Game 1. He gets characters to 50 and doesn't play them much after, except to remake their costumes, which he is extremely good at. He cares about the grind up to 50 considerably more than I do. It's a perfectly valid way to play, but we are often on different pages, and so it usually means that I have to play some lowbie that I find somewhat boring. I took him on his first ITF the other day and he was impressed. Hopefully, he can appreciate Game 2 and we can kick some butt together more often.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
If there was another costume slot for getting to 50, I'd have a lot more 50s.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I was going to say something close to this. It took me years to get my first lvl 50 and I think a big part of the reason was that I almost always soloed and just got burnt out by the mid-20s. I got my one character up into the low 30's and then decided to start getting "active". Left my LFT flag on all the time, joined the server's chat channels for groups & badges, started answering calls for task forces (which I previously avoided as a "n00b" but got over it and just started joining and told the leader it was my first time on that TF -- they always welcomed me and told me what I needed to know), etc. Hit my first 50 on my first mothership raid in RWZ. I had left the game for years and returned in May but made a decision not to play my main in the AE until I had leveled a character to 50 the traditional route so I got to experience the whole game.|
Originally Posted by KingSnake
My game play changes in the 30's. Per 30, i solo the vast majority of my content. I may run a tf or two, but that's about it. Post 30, i tend to team the vast majority of the time. And that's when the game IMO really gets going. I have the MOSTfun in the late 40's to 50's.
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The benefits of this were twofold: One, I was greatly increasing my leveling rate vs solo (this was for a defender so YMMV for scrappers & stuff) and secondly I became interested in getting things like the Leadership pool or other "team" type powers to increase my value to the group.
I can't speak for the OP but that's what helped me. Now, I'm not only interested in my lowbie's next power but I'm interested in their entire climb to 50 and seeing how they perform in Masters Task Forces and stuff.
So, I've managed to get quite a few toons into the 30's. I even managed to get up to 45 on one way back when, but I just can't seem to summon the willpower to push it all the way. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why. I thought I just simply got bored or found something else that caught my interested, and while that is part of the truth I think I've found out the missing piece to this puzzle...
Once you've gotten to 32+ you're pretty much "over the hill" when it comes to your powers. You've gotten the last power of your primary and probably have at least one or two more you're looking to grab from your secondary, so by 35-38 you're done with your primary/secondary powers. I think my problem is once I reach this stage there's nothing else I'm really looking forward to in the last 10 or so levels. Sure, I get my ancillary powers but they only seem to help round out my character and not really give it that "umph" that those last couple of powers in the primary/secondary sets give you. That's not to say that they're suppose to or that I wish they did, my only point is after 35-38 or so there's nothing really left that makes me go "oooh shiny, I can't wait for that".
Does anyone else share this problem or a similar one, or have any tips on how to overcome it? The toon I got to 45 I lvled with my brother and some other friends so that gave me the incentive to make it that far, but when I'm on my own I just tend to get burnt out by the time I get to the 30s.