Quote:
It would depend on the team, the difficulty setting etc. However i think the point i was going for was that even if they do plow through the content 3 times faster, it means that that 3 times faster is going to equal out to you running solo and getting 3 times the xp. So the xp benefits of teamming are limited. However when soloing your drops are all your own. And when you could argue that previous to i16 you were limited solo by your group size making small spawn, you cant argue that anymore since you can now make 8 man team size spawns solo. |
Originally Posted by Werner
So, 449-499 xp each on your big team vs. 1376 xp solo, or about 3 times less XP. That's about what I already said, but actually slightly better (I figured 3.2 times less XP).
So then the question, which I already posed, is can your team of 8 REALLY not plow through content a mere THREE TIMES faster than I can solo? It's a serious question, and from the two answers so far I'm starting to get the feeling that no, the average team can't, but that really frightens me. |
So when you figure that things drop at no faster rate teamed then solo, the benefits I believe are going to be to solo, since then you dont have to share what drops.
Quote:
See my problem is that there appears to be a good way and a hard way, no matter what a player enjoys doing. Now prior to i16 i might have agreed with you. But now a solo player being able to choose to spawn a map for 8 players and keep the level range below +3 and +2s means that a solo player can crank through content. Be those radio missions, be those contacts, oroborus missions or choosing to farm one mission over and over.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Come on, you have to know that's not what I meant. I'm talking about obtaining purples too, and even said so in my post. Farming is not the only way to obtain purples. It's one way. There is no "best" way, because what works best depends a lot on what each of us do and do not enjoy. I enjoy playing 50s solo and running TFs with veteran teams. I don't farm in any serious way. You want to know what my best farmers are? A Dark/Dark Defender and an Ice/Dark Corruptor. Woo, look out, I'm a machine! And yet I've heavily IO'd eight level 50s, and fully purpled five of those.
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By pure chance that solo player will get all the drops from enemies originally blanced to providing drops for a team. That solo player doesnt have to share. So the chances, not truely reality, but chances are better that when a good drop comes alone, purple or just a good IO set piece, that now it goes only to him.
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| You're characterizing the teaming or team-centric option as a non-starter because of purples, but that's bogus on at least two levels. 1) Not everyone cares about purples. 2) Even if they do care about purples, they can still get them through team play. |
Now if a system is in place that limits the drops off the difficulty slider settings i didnt hear about it, but otherwise, the chance rate is the chance rate, and if all those chances will only benefit one character, that is an obvious boost to what that character will earn. I dont see a way it couldnt be.
Quote:
| I am saying this as a separate complaint from your ideas on buffing team drops, which I am largely neutral on. My complaint is with your hyperbole. Your defending your idea with exaggerate claims of the disparity and its affect on people's play choices. Anyone who decides they must not team because they want purples is foolish, ignorant or both. |
So i guess what i am trying to say is mostly this difference is mostly related to changes since i16. The ability for a solo player, no matter farming or not, to be able to face content that is team size content previous to i16 IMO has the ability to skew more favorable returns to the solo player. Again has the ability to, i agree without dev dataminning we will never know the reality.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
You want to know what my best farmers are? A Dark/Dark Defender and an Ice/Dark Corruptor. Woo, look out, I'm a machine!
|
This was my first laugh of the day.
=D
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
I really don't understand what you're saying here. How would it be possible to both a) guarantee that 1% of recipe drops at 47+ are purple AND b) not change the drop rate? How would it help level the disparity you perceive between soloers and team players? Farming soloers would still be getting their 1% purples much, much faster than non-farming players on a team, because they'd still be getting each 100 recipes much, much faster.|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
100 recipies is not easy. It would mean the game guarentees that 1 percent of your drops when you get to level 47 are purple drops. Not that they will be able to be used by you, or that they are what you want. It would not effect the natural drop rate of the recipies, would not slow down those that earn them more frequently then that.
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As far as I can see, the only way to deliver what you seem to want (parity of purple drops between different play styles) would be to use data-mining of kill rates to set soloing purple drop rates individually not just by archetype, but by powerset combination -- presumably in some way which would then be factored into drop rates for different team compositions. As well as being insanely complicated and highly gameable, I suspect that kind of change would prove mildly unpopular with some segments of the playerbase.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
So unless you're in the market for purples don't farm regular content?
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'm guessing there's not much traction on getting this stickied.
I think it has some valuable insights that would help set expectations for
budding marketeers, and perhaps somewhat clarify why #6 posters are often
met with derision for their sense of entitlement without a pre-req of effort,
rather than sympathy for their abject poverty.
One alternative to a sticky may be to re-package the salient points in the
thread as a guide and post it to that thread if the OP feels so-inclined.
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
/e applause OP
the peeps that moan the most about purps are the ones just farming for them to sell them...
on the otherhand, purp sets arent always the greatest to aim for because of price or availability, and the funny thing you could probably get almost the same out of another set that would cost a tenth of the purple set.
My first big IO attempt, i went purple crazy and put 5 purple sets of 5 in each defender. Luckily, that was pre-AE, so they were still at a reasonable price and the farmers were doing their standard farms, so there were plenty. Ended up being 1bill per defender.
But because of the inflated prices, even 1 purple set was out of the question. The funny thing i pieced together a ridiculous IO build w/o even 1 purple, and got ALL the unique goodies that could be grabbed. This build cost me 1.5 bill per def, prob 750 - 1bill back in the day. Trying to fit in the purps i wanted would have upped it to 2.5-3 bill per def in current days cost, and thats just stupid.
Though the powersets are different between the builds, the current toonz are much more solid and better quality than the ones w/ purple sets in them....
Quote:
I'd say "a fiftieth". Except the purples have things like +53% damage in them that you really can't get anywhere else. (...hmm. One purple +53% damage, one level 51 Acc/Dam Hami-O, I could practically 2-slot a power. Hmm.)
| the funny thing you could probably get almost the same out of another set that would cost a tenth of the purple set. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
I posted some purple drop info before and basically heard I should be more patient. I've tried that but now have enough data to make what I think is a pretty good case.
I've gone through 30+ missions, killing over 6000 MOBs (non-AE of course) and not gotten a single purple. I've heard on this thread you get about 1 purple drop per 1500-2000 minion equivalents (lieuts drop 2x as fast, bosses 3x.) Assuming the more conservative 2000 number is correct, and converting my solo kills into minion equivalents, I've calculated the probabilities (using this calculator) of getting drops.
The data:
4075 Minions
2032 Lieuts at 2x
347 Bosses at 3x
-------------------
9180 Total minion equivalents
----------------
P of 0 drops = 1.0%
P of 1 drops = 4.7%
P of 2 drops = 10.7%
P of 3 drops = 16.4%
P of 4 drops = 18.8%
P of 5 drops = 17.2%
P of 6 drops = 13.2%
P of 7 drops = 8.6%
P of 8 drops = 5.0%
P of 9 drops = 2.5%
P of 10 drops = 1.2%
Sum = 99.2% (so .8% of the time I should have gotten 11+ purples)
In other words, assuming random chance, theres only a 1% chance I wouldn't get a purple drop. While I grant its possible I'm painfully unlucky, it is now much more likely at either that:
1) Unlike other recipes, purples do not drop as a linear function of enemies killed but through some other means that just happened to equate to some minion count (and I'm not doing whatever this is.)
2) There's some problem where I and possibly others aren't getting Purples or at least at a much lower rate than the claimed one (note, no problem with regular drops.)
Conditions: Soloing an Elec/Shield Brute at 8/0/(yes some no some)/no. 30+ total completed missions, several cycled. Includes Airlia arcs (last mish cycled, not completed), Shadow Spider (incomplete), Ghost Widow 2nd arc, paper missions, and 1 flashback arc
Please LMK if I'm missing something, have a good point, etc.
Notes:
1) I also ran ITF, LGSF and several team missions with this toon and RSF and a few other missions at +1, 5, and 8 villain equivs with other toons too that I didn't collect data for in this time (no purple drops though.)
2) I switched from boss yes to no when I heard the 1500-2000 number had come from killing primarily lieuts and minions.
3) Pre I15 I did receive 2 purple drops total (on different characters than this one I'm now running.) I didn't play a lot with my post 50s and didn't keep data, so this rate seems OK to me.
Disclaimer: I know this thread is about how purples aren't needed. I get that and agree. However, I'm a 4.5 year vet, so hunting them is my most recent activity to be entertained and post I16 seemed the ideal time to try it. I hope you'd agree that being annoyed about not getting them at the same rate as other players is different from complaining we need more of them. Also, the devs closed the previous thread on drop rate issues I used, so this seemed a reasonable forum to post on.
I got your purplez
Since i16 release i got more than 10, half on tfs/sfs and half on farms...
Wow Nord,
Thats awsome for you. Funny though, I don't remember selecting the option "Give all my purples to NordBlast"...
So what I gathered from this post, was that I need to respec all my old characters who got purples when the getting was good and sell them for ridiculously high prices.
"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo
... assuming you have something you want to buy that requires a ridiculous amount of money, that isn't a purple, yes.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
It definitely looks like you have a valid concern. The 1500 number came from my Drop listing & analysis thread. I had a larger sample size (18k mobs counting the extra runs listed on page 2 of that thread), but your 6000 is probably statistically significant.|
Originally Posted by Geoff_NA
Please LMK if I'm missing something, have a good point, etc.
|
Has this all been since the recipe patch? Because recipe drops were really broken for a while after I16 came out.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
Quote:
It's one of the settings deep in the menu structure and sometimes it gets switched on by accident.
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Originally Posted by Geoff_NA
Thats awsome for you. Funny though, I don't remember selecting the option "Give all my purples to NordBlast"...
|
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
I've only been able to play a limited amount of time since the drop rates were fixed but I've gotten two in the past two days; one being an Armageddon triple. |
Originally Posted by NordBlast
I got your purplez
Since i16 release i got more than 10, half on tfs/sfs and half on farms... |
I might be able to squeeze an hour and a half of playing tonight so we'll see what happens.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by QuiJon
To the OPer. I think one of the first complaints is that this game really didnt used to have time sink material. Atleast not alot of it. Purples as you point out has changed that.
To another complaint, the system that drops them makes them so rare that people who do want to farm, will probably normally get more of them due to killing more enemies. The inherent problem with this system many have is that its rewarding aberent behavior. The devs overall dont care for farming. But the drop rate is SO rare that to really reap the reward, you have to take part in it. Not just that, but you mentioned that you have to be high lvel to earn them. Not true again. I can SK up my lowbie and work him in a power level and he has the same chance sitting at the door of getting the drop as my main level 50 in the mission. So again a reward for multiple accounts, and a further reward possible for leveling a toon in a way that the devs frown upon. Trust me i am not complaining over all, there really are not to many instances where i want purple recipies. My doms being my main want for them really. In many cases the buffs they give, though nice, are not what i was wanting to buff for a particular toon. However, it does infact feel that keeping them so fricken rare is really a hurt to the normal player and offers a higher reward for those that are working the system. |
And here we have the correct evaluation of the situation. Of course this thread of filled with people cheering on the OP, who claims that anyone not spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours farming minions in repeatable missions doesn't (and I can't believe they actually used this word,) "deserve" to receive the content they paid for. And yet, those three boxing multiple accounts and sweep clearing mission after mission to gank the system and harvest these purps somehow does.
That isn't about working hard for what you want. There is nothing hard about this game, there is nothing hard about farming a mission. It's a game, and a time sink designed to mask the complete lack of high end content that really shouldn't ever have been an issue in the first place.
The current system of risk vs reward pretty much rewards only the farmers, leaving the actual player at the mercy of self important and self congratulating parasites who control the ridiculous anonymous market system. It amuses me when I hear these persons refer to this game's player base as "whining casuals". This is a casual game. That isn't really negotiable, it is a casual game by design. Those that make an unhealthy practice of spending hours and hours on end ganking the system are not the people this game is aimed at. You're welcome here of course. Everyone is, but don't presume that people that don't pervert the design of the game are somehow 'less' than you.
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
Quote:
"high end content" as generally defined is nothing but a timesink itself.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
That isn't about working hard for what you want. There is nothing hard about this game, there is nothing hard about farming a mission. It's a game, and a time sink designed to mask the complete lack of high end content that really shouldn't ever have been an issue in the first place.
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If our timesinks are a bit different than those of most other MMOs, great. Variety being the spice of life and all that.
Quote:
| The current system of risk vs reward pretty much rewards only the farmers, leaving the actual player at the mercy of self important and self congratulating parasites who control the ridiculous anonymous market system. |
Since you say it's so impossible to make money in this game we're obviously very special people, and we deserve the delicious, juicy fruits of our labor. So a little respect, please!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Traditional MMO way:
For the 'best stuff', you MUST raid X and only X, over and over again
Then supplant 'best stuff' with better stuff, only available from Y
CoH way:
For the 'best stuff' run anything you like at level 50 (well 47+)
I know which is preferable to me
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Yes, how conveniently you ignore the voices who play normal content who have earned vast wealth despite your claims.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
And here we have the correct evaluation of the situation. Of course this thread of filled with people cheering on the OP, who claims that anyone not spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours farming minions in repeatable missions doesn't (and I can't believe they actually used this word,) "deserve" to receive the content they paid for. And yet, those three boxing multiple accounts and sweep clearing mission after mission to gank the system and harvest these purps somehow does.
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Claims that one has to farm or play the game in other degenerate ways to earn huge wealth come down to one thing. Lies. If you read this thread at all, you have to know better, and thus have to be lying. Yes, I am calling your post a lie, flat out, no holds barred. For posting it you deserves all the respect any liar does.
Greater power is supposed to take longer attain. Otherwise, there is no achievement. Without "hard" to attain goals, the devs get no sustained subscriptions and the players get no sense of achievement. It's that simple, and the only thing worth arguing about is how "hard" is hard enough.
People like me are proof it's not actually all that hard. People like you are proof that some people don't actually know what they're talking about, but are willing to villify the people who do to make themselves look better.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
And people like me, actually.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
People like me are proof it's not actually all that hard.
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I only marketeer on a few characters, but that doesn't stop the rest from making bank doing nothing but running missions and selling drops.
And it doesn't take much effort above that baseline to rack up tremendous amounts of inf.
Even players who dislike marketeering for whatever reason need only memorize a generic IO recipe or two to join in the extremely profitable fleecing of the sheeple.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Thirding this. Haven't made any serious cash from marketeering for well over a year now and I've managed to get five billionaires since then.
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
And people like me, actually.
I only marketeer on a few characters, but that doesn't stop the rest from making bank doing nothing but running missions and selling drops. |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
Fourthing/Quading that as well. Earning big money markteering recently has been harder due to the number of people that are doing it now; compared to how many were a year ago. I earn plenty of money just running lvl 50 content on my diff toons. Its not as fast as farming but I enjoy it much more and the rewards are still pretty substantial.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Thirding this. Haven't made any serious cash from marketeering for well over a year now and I've managed to get five billionaires since then.
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Active 50's
Darklocked (dm/sd Brute)
Wardman (Fire/sd Scrapper)
Congealer (ice/cold Corruptor)
Peroxisome (mind/psi Dominator)
Evil Thing (Fire/Kin Corruptor)
Proud Member of Repeat-Offenders
See how easy that was
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
The "average" pug might have issues, just because they may have a lot of new players. The "average" SG team is going to be all over the map in performance, but will probably tend towards consistency within the same SG. The average public global channel team will probably be rather pug-like. The average private global channel team is likely to be a lot more polished. But who knows what proportions those categories exist in, and what their internal variance is? I sure don't.
A good team is going to blow away the best farmer on raw kill speed. The main differentiator then becomes mobs per map, because good teams running normal content clear maps fast then have to move to a new one, while the farmer gets all of them to themselves. You also have stuff like contact delivery or zone kill missions, or stuff like looking for the last glowie behind a pillar somewhere, which are things the farmers never worry about. In all, I find that sort of thing makes it unclear to me which really pulls ahead.
Of course, if the answer isn't glaringly obvious, I wonder how important knowing it really is.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA