'people like Uber', that means people who play their 50s and really just sell their drops.
No great marketeering is needed
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Lying may be a strong term for it, but at the very least you are guilty of blatant exaggeration and hyperbole.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
Liar. You actually called me a liar because my experience is different from your own, as is my opinion. Which one of us is morally questionable again?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by King_Moloch
anyone not spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours farming minions in repeatable missions
three boxing multiple accounts rewards only the farmers parasites who control the ridiculous anonymous market system |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by King_Moloch
And since I actually play instead of farm, the fault must lie with me
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Quote:
You did not make a claim about your experience. You made a claim about what's required to get lots of purples. You didn't qualify it with "in my experience". You stated it as a cold, hard fact.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
Liar. You actually called me a liar because my experience is different from your own, as is my opinion. Which one of us is morally questionable again?
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Quote:
| Let's see. I have played the same level fifty character every day, very nearly for about three hours since around early to mid may. I don't know if the development team would be able to verify something like that, but I wish they would. Since that time, I have gotten one purple drop. One. I don't know if there's a record of that somewhere on the server, but I would love it if they could verify that as well. |
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Now, the character is about two and a half years old, and used to be played every other day or so. He runs in level fifty missions often for badging purposes and because there are arcs that I like to do over again. I enjoy the patron arcs, and do any task forces that come my way. In all that time, like I've earlier stated, I have gotten one purple drop. Which was fairly recent, a little less than a month ago I think. |
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| Since my experience is different from yours, and my opinion different from yours, I MUST be lying. |
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| And since I actually play instead of farm, the fault must lie with me, not with the design... |
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| Since I've actually only ever received one purple drop, I must be killing the mobs wrong... No wait, I must be playing the game wrong... No wait... I must be... lying? |
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| Regardless of what you think based on a post on an internet game forum board that you chose to take as a personal attack, I am not what you seem to think. |
Oh, but I should point out that you did personally attack both farmers and "marketeers". Ironically, neither label really applies to me. But don't give us a sob when you get called out for attacks on whole categories of players, one of whom this part of the forum is partially dedicated to.
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| But this game is set up in a manner that no other game is, and trying to have the same kinds of raid rule drop tables as these other games doesn't work very well. These new changes don't seem to have changed anything for me, certainly. So, while the OP and yourself and "people like you" are raking in the effortless rewards, sniping at "people like them" that also play and wonder what all the fuss is about, it is clear that there is a breakdown between your collective experience and mine. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
....getting bent out of shape because you're not happy with the RANDOM drops you're getting.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
In all that time, like I've earlier stated, I have gotten one purple drop. Which was fairly recent, a little less than a month ago I think.
So... Since my experience is different from yours, and my opinion different from yours, I MUST be lying. Yeah.... no.... And since I actually play instead of farm, the fault must lie with me, not with the design... Yeah... no... Since I've actually only ever received one purple drop, I must be killing the mobs wrong... No wait, I must be playing the game wrong... No wait... I must be... |
(shrug) You've gotten one in several months. I saw a post where someone said they had gotten 8 or 10 in the past month. It happens.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
That was 19 posts above -- your "page count" may vary. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
....getting bent out of shape because you're not happy with the RANDOM drops you're getting.
(shrug) You've gotten one in several months. I saw a post where someone said they had gotten 8 or 10 in the past month. It happens. |
I have a blaster who, in her first 27 days of play or so, got NINE purple recipes doing "normal" non-farming content as a sidekick on three, four, and five person teams. My teammates also received an inordinate amount of purples in that time, so she was nicknamed "Miss Purple Magnet." She got her 10th purple recipe on day 31 soloing "The Wall" in Cimerora -- I wasn't trying to farm the wall so much as see if she could actually solo there successfully. Since then, over enough gaming hours to earn another 500k prestige, she's gotten exactly TWO more purples, so I think her lucky streak has come to a screeching halt.
In other news, between double xp weekend and people getting out of the AE farm mindset, purple prices seem to have taken a huge tumble as predicted. On Thursday, my main got a Ragnarok: Recharge/Accuracy which I crafted and put up for sale. Last five prices: 150 million each, with no variation. "Woohoo!" <e rubs hands together ebilly> I just logged in to see if it had sold (it hadn't), and looked at the last five prices today. 90 million, 100 million, 65.5 million, 35.5 million, 150 million. As a seller, ouch. If I were a buyer, I'd be doing cartwheels! Last five for the same recipe? 35-40 million.
There are also currently 3 Apocalypse, 3 Armageddon, 2 Hecatomb, and a total of 5 Ragnarok recipes going for 50-100 million, based on "last five" prices! Maybe they'll climb again dramatically after the market stabilizes in a week or two -- maybe they won't. For now, it looks as if the new mission difficulty sliders are making these things more plentiful and affordable than ever!
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Originally Posted by PHlRE
on the otherhand, purp sets arent always the greatest to aim for because of price or availability, and the funny thing you could probably get almost the same out of another set that would cost a tenth of the purple set.
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Originally Posted by Fulmens
I'd say "a fiftieth". Except the purples have things like +53% damage in them that you really can't get anywhere else.
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Beating up your favorite "bad guy" with friends: $14.95 a month or less.
Shiny new level 50 costume from Icon: 1 million influence.
Their totally tricked-out, multiple purple build: several billion influence (OLD prices)
"Ouch! Here -- need an 'awaken?'": 50 influence...oh, who am I kidding? PRICELESS!
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
Wakies are 150 inf.
(heh.)
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Doh!! Yes, they are -- my bad. </e facepalm>|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Wakies are 150 inf.
(heh.) |
...then again, when you've got a couple billion saved up from NOT buying purples, 50 inf and 150 inf and those 20,000 inf Phenomenal Lucks one overpays Wentworth's for mid-Task Force all qualify as "chump change," right?
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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What's really shocking; so are Essence of the Earth - some of the time. I've seen all five recent prices at 500,000. The next day, there was a 1,000 bid and the other four were between 100 and 150.|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
Wakies are 150 inf.
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(No, I'm not speculating on EoE. I was lowballing them to stockpile some for raiding.)
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Naw, he called you a liar because you told a lie.|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
Liar. You actually called me a liar because my experience is different from your own, as is my opinion.
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Nobody needs to farm to get purples. That's simply not true.
When you publicly proclaim something that isn't true, it's called 'lying'.
Farming is just one of the efficient ways to make the boatloads of inf purples demand.
I've financed purples by farming, I've financed purples with pure marketeering (which is by far the most 'casual friendly' method, requiring at most a few minutes a day), and I've financed them by "playing the game" exactly as defined by legions of have-not crybabies; running contact missions & story arcs.
Do you even have a level 50 character? You don't seem to understand how fast they can pile up inf doing nothing but playing "normally". In the I16 world this is greatly magnified by the new mission settings. Pretty much any level 50 is overpowered compared to the majority of the situations they faced running regular content pre-I16. Now you can tweak things to give yourself a challenge, which also generates better and more rewards, which has the potential to greatly increase their already impressive earning power.
Which gives me an idea- it might be time to resurrect Cat's level 50 earning power thread for a new generation. I'm guessing the new settings will supercharge the earning power of efficient soloists and give most everyone else a pretty big bump.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Here's a random datapoint. Given that it was Double XP Weekendâ„¢, and I shy away from even self PLing my characters past content, this weekend I mostly played 50s for inf. Along the way I broke down and did some farming. Of course, as mentioned previously, my best hero farmer is a Dark/Dark Defender*, so that's who I used.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Which gives me an idea- it might be time to resurrect Cat's level 50 earning power thread for a new generation. I'm guessing the new settings will supercharge the earning power of efficient soloists and give most everyone else a pretty big bump.
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Tuned for 6 players, +2 levels†, and no bosses, I was averaging 6M inf/hour (so 3M/hr non-doubled) in raw defeats, not counting common IO drops, of which I was getting roughly 10 per run. Non-doubled, that's about 4M/hour on probably one of the slowest things anyone interested in farming would ever consider trying it with.
(Which I was actually pretty pleased with. After all, most of what I enjoy about playing my characters is actually succeeding at things they shouldn't be any good at.
)By the way, I didn't get any purples, or any especially good drops period. I only did it for a few hours all weekend, though. This was a major anniversary for the parents and I had a shindig planned, so my DXP-ing was limited.
* Why is a Dark/Dark my best farmer, you might ask? Because I tended to create single-target-centric attackers under the old soloing regime, tuned more towards DPS against hard targets than AoEs against lots of little ones. Since I don't farm much, I've had little motivation to build a character specifically good at farming. Instead, I just use what I have when the whim strikes. My DDD has the best AoEs in my L50 hero stable.
†Why on +2? Because even when the whole point is mowing down lots of foes, it bores me when it's too easy. My characters are all generally built towards taking on +2/+3 level foes, so anything less gets feels too cheesy.‡
‡ So I was earning 3M/hr or 4M/hr depending on how you measure it on a doubly handicapped farmer.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Anniversaries must have been in the air- my play time was also gimped by a landmark wedding anniversary.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
This was a major anniversary for the parents and I had a shindig planned, so my DXP-ing was limited.
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| † Why on +2? Because even when the whole point is mowing down lots of foes, it bores me when it's too easy. My characters are all generally built towards taking on +2/+3 level foes, so anything less gets feels too cheesy.‡ |
I run my ar/dev at +0/x3. Enough enemies to make me think a bit and make him break a sweat, but not super tough individually (which is aggravating when the bulk of your damage is smashing/lethal).
It's let me make playing him feel suitably heroic (it is a rare spawn where he isn't flirting with defeat) without crossing over into slow-paced tedium.
The utility for farming got most of the pre-release press, but its actually been a bigger help for my non-farmers. Go figure!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Me thinks this thread went from informative to full retard in 10.5 pages. I motion a lock
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Everybody knows you never go full retard...
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Me thinks this thread went from informative to full retard in 10.5 pages. I motion a lock
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Quote:
Absolutely, Probe the high end rather than the low.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Which gives me an idea- it might be time to resurrect Cat's level 50 earning power thread for a new generation. I'm guessing the new settings will supercharge the earning power of efficient soloists and give most everyone else a pretty big bump.
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@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TopDoc
I've seen a few posts recently in which people complain that they can't get the nicest stuff in the game (purples). I wanted to explain a few things, so that in the future I can just point to this thread every time someone complains.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Devs set the drop rate. There is absolutely nothing that we as players can do about that. The Devs want purples to be ultra-rare, so they are. Complaining here about the drop rate is not productive. Go to the Developer's Corner forum, or the Suggestions and Ideas forum. SECOND MOST IMPORTANT, purples are not needed. People played the game before purples. Characters loaded with just SOs can usually take on 3 even con minions, unless they made some bad choices when picking powers and slotting. No content is limited to chars with purple IO sets. I've never seen anyone require purples for a team, or even set IOs. Granted purples make the game easier. Purples make it possible to do some silly hard things, like solo AVs, or Rikti Pylons, or massive spawns of high level mobs. But the Devs DO NOT want everyone doing that, so purples will NEVER be easy to obtain. Purples are an end-game activity. You only earn them by fighting high level mobs, a WHOLE LOT of high level mobs. They are designed to be a time-sink, something to do with your char after you hit level 50. If you want purples, you better be prepared to play your level 50 chars a WHOLE LOT. It used to take hundreds of hours to hit level 50, and the Devs probably started out with that same general time scale (or longer) to fully IO out a character with purples. If you are not prepared to jump through the hoops the Devs created in order to earn purples, then you do not deserve them. If you feel you deserve them simply because they exist, and you pay your $15/month, I recommend you keep it quiet. You have a sense of entitlement that people in this forum will laugh at. It's about as silly as demanding a Hummer just because you have a Driver's License. Things do not work that way in the real world, and they don't work that way in the game. The high end loot in this game is already far easier to get than in most other MMOs. The Devs will NEVER make purples common enough that casual players can get lots of them. How long does it take to get purples? My average from farming is one purple every 1500 minions. I could get on average one per hour with my very fast farming char. Your average character is significantly slower, and it could take upwards of 10 hours of play per purple. Teaming may take longer, just due to the lower defeat speed on teams. I'm giving you these numbers to help set your expectations. Run Hero Stats and find your kill rate, divide it by your team size, figure out how long it'll take to defeat 1500 mobs, and that'll give you an indication of how long on average it'll take to find one random purple. You only deserve the purples that you get as drops. If you want MORE than that, you have to convince other players to give them to you. Other players can be very unreasonable. You may have to give them a WHOLE LOT of Inf to get what you want. This is normally done on the Market. If you want to complete a purple set, you have the same problem. It is unlikely you'll get a whole set from drops, given their random nature. The Devs added the Market specifically so people could sell the recipes they don't need and buy the ones they do need. You may be able to complete a set by asking friends, SGmates, or global chat channels. But for ultra-rare things, the Market is often your only choice. A LOT of people come to the Market looking for purples. Casual players don't play enough to get many purple drops, so they want to buy them at the Market. People who like playing lowbies don't get purple drops, so they come to the Market. Players with purples who want to finish a set come to the Market. Powergamers who want to solo AVs come to the Market. On the other hand, not a whole lot of people are selling their purples at the Market. If I find one that I think I may be able to use some day, I'll store it in my base, or keep it in my Enhancement Tray. Lots of people would never consider selling a purple. Low Supply and High Demand have massively increased the price of purples. Supply has taken a lot of hits recently. You can't earn purples in AE (except in Dev Choice arcs), and a WHOLE LOT of people were just doing AE for months. Issue 16 has gotten a lot of people out of the AE building, but there's at least one bug that has significantly reduced recipe drops. I'm getting 1/8 of the usual Recipe drops on one of my farm maps. Some farmers have simply stopped farming till the bug gets fixed. Nothing has reduced Demand. In fact Demand has increased significantly in the past few months, due to the amount of PLing that went on in AE. And all that PLing has produced a lot of Inf that can go to purchasing purples. The absolute richest players in the game set the price for purples. If a single Armageddon: Acc/Dam enters the market each day on average, then it will be purchased by the one person who bids highest. Now there are a LOT of rich people in the game. There are Ebil Marketeers, farmers, PLers, and hardcore players who have a LOT of Inf. There are probably people who have used exploits (snake egg farm or some Duping hack) to rack up huge amounts of Inf. And there may be people who buy from the RMTers. So there are plenty of people with a billion or more Inf. That single Armageddon: Acc/Dam each day will go to the single ultra-rich person who bids the highest. The Market is a PvP zone. You are competing with other players to buy purples. You need a WHOLE LOT of Inf to win there. You need to be the single ultra-rich person who bids the highest. Patience helps too, as you may be able to win with a lower bid if no ultra-rich person happens to be bidding that day. Now there are a lot of different ways to earn enough Inf to become the winning bidder. You can become an Ebil Marketeer, or a farmer, or just a hardcore player. But there's no way you'll ever earn enough Inf to buy multiple nice purple IO sets if you remain a casual player. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to become good at Market PvP, and most marketeers believe the rewards are better than anything else in the game. There are a lot of threads in this forum about earning Inf fast and easy using the Market. Complaining about the price of purples won't really accomplish anything. But earning massive Inf using the Market will. tl;dr THE PUPLE ANSWER: Play your 50s a WHOLE LOT, or play the Market. |
I agree and disagree with your post. It is well written and places the absolute truth that whinning about drop rates will NOT change because the devs don't want tem to change for reasons they feel just/logical. However, if indeed purples where created as an end-game activity then we need to speak to the devs about a lack of end-game material... Logically, doesn't it make sence to make an end-game "activity" actually an activity that can be frequented often?!
There are larger issues here than simple in game drops. I'm one of those people that used to farm day end and day out and used my "winnings" to make me a lot of inf then bought everything at cheaper prices. But even I understand that if you isolate the end-game material to only the "Hard-Core" players you kill the game in its entirety. Casual players feel isolated and weak the complete opposite of what you want. Yea you can talk all the smack you want about people who whine 99.9999% of the time its people who just don't want to jump through the hoops and why the heck should they for end-game material?
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There are. I join Hamidon raids regularly. I run 1-3 TFs a day, usually level 50 ones. Even after what I view as the pillage of PvP that was I13, people PvP with 50s. |
Originally Posted by ___TK___
I agree and disagree with your post. It is well written and places the absolute truth that whinning about drop rates will NOT change because the devs don't want tem to change for reasons they feel just/logical. However, if indeed purples where created as an end-game activity then we need to speak to the devs about a lack of end-game material... Logically, doesn't it make sence to make an end-game "activity" actually an activity that can be frequented often?!
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You're confusing "end game content" and "things to do at 50". You can have the latter without the former. This game is founded heavily on repeating content, and not so much on epic activities that take hours and a hundred people to do. You can experience that repeating content as a new character with new AT and/or powersets, or you can repeat it as a level 50 working towards your purples. (That's actually an over-simplification. You can do both at the same time thanks to the market.) There's not perfect overlap in the two, but there's a lot.
Purples and end-game activities are not related. There are lots of people willing to play the game we have while they work towards purples. There are lots of people who want bigger, badder raids. There are people who don't want any raids. Only some of them will be satisfied.
Right now, purples are for people who either PvP, or who PvE with their 50s for the sake of playing 50s, and who want to chase a goal while doing so.
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| But even I understand that if you isolate the end-game material to only the "Hard-Core" players you kill the game in its entirety. |
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| Casual players feel isolated and weak the complete opposite of what you want. |
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| Yea you can talk all the smack you want about people who whine 99.9999% of the time its people who just don't want to jump through the hoops and why the heck should they for end-game material? |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
There are. I join Hamidon raids regularly. I run 1-3 TFs a day, usually level 50 ones. Even after what I view as the pillage of PvP that was I13, people PvP with 50s.
You're confusing "end game content" and "things to do at 50". You can have the latter without the former. This game is founded heavily on repeating content, and not so much on epic activities that take hours and a hundred people to do. You can experience that repeating content as a new character with new AT and/or powersets, or you can repeat it as a level 50 working towards your purples. (That's actually an over-simplification. You can do both at the same time thanks to the market.) There's not perfect overlap in the two, but there's a lot. Purples and end-game activities that you might like more are not related. There are lots of people willing to play the game we have while they work towards purples. There are lots of people who want bigger, badder raids. There are people who don't want any raids. Only some of them will be satisfied. Right now, purples are for people who either PvP, or who PvE with their 50s for the sake of playing 50s, and who want to chase a goal while doing so. Perhaps you missed the part where there's no end-game material that's isolated to hard-core people. I mean, seriously, what are you referring to? There is nothing in this game you need purples or even IOs for. They just make it easier. You can raid Hamidon or the RWZ ship with SOs. It works. Hell, most of that stuff is predicated on having buffs and heals coming out of your ears - if there's the expected amount of support running around, a lot of builds won't even be able to tell the difference in having no IOs at all. Casual players never, ever do that. If they do that, then they are not casual. By definition, a casual player does not care about the high-end loot. What game are you talking about? That seriously makes no sense to me. |
Very true, there are many "activities" that you can activily participate in before reaching 50 as often as you want. And you are correct I did confuse content with activity. This is always such a debate. While simply saying the game still works without high-end loot and you can still experience anything in the game with normal loot, you leave out the very important part that you just wont have the same survivability as those with high-end loot (yes this should be understood before ahnd, but it should also be said as often as it doesn't matter what you have) Go ahead meet me in RV with an SO toon and see me "twix" yur lil but until you leave. Have a good experience yet, did you feel as though you had fun? If not too bad you need to play 100s of hours to do so and repeat the same crap over and over again and on top of that you need to solo if you want the really high-end loot OHHH and just incase you thought getting a new build will be easier you need to realize that after you hit the lvl cap the cycle starts over. Sorry if its snippy, just saying my peace. Peace out!
Outside of PvP, where tiny edges in performance matter.
the highest of the high, STF/LRSF (maybe the Recihsman SF/TF) is entirety runable with SO builds.
heck the LRSF arrived in I7, 2 whole issues before IO and as it was the only source redside for HO, it had to be completable with just SO.
The STF arrived concurrent with IOs, so the first runs through were indeed with SO/HO builds.
So for PVE content, IOs period are just not required. Helpful yes, but not required.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Quote:
Can you name me an MMO with PvP where the best (PvP) gear doesn't provide an advantage, and where the person with the most of it wouldn't have the edge in a contest between equally skilled opponents?|
Originally Posted by ___TK___
Go ahead meet me in RV with an SO toon and see me "twix" yur lil but until you leave. Have a good experience yet, did you feel as though you had fun? If not too bad you need to play 100s of hours to do so and repeat the same crap over and over again and on top of that you need to solo if you want the really high-end loot OHHH and just incase you thought getting a new build will be easier you need to realize that after you hit the lvl cap the cycle starts over. Sorry if its snippy, just saying my peace. Peace out!
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That's what gear is for. If it didn't do anything no one would want it.
If you can't name a game like that, what are you asking for? If you can name a game like that, why aren't you playing it?
And please, please don't head down the road of mixing PvP and "casual" players. That will never end well. There is not, and never will be, such a thing as "casual PvP" in any open-access PvP environment. The "hard core" players will always have the best, most tweaked, and most effective builds, gear, tactics and planning. The "casual" players never, ever get to compete on even footing with them, because (by definition), they don't put in the time and effort the hard core players do. The minute the "casual" player starts working to catch up with the hard-core crowd they stop being "casual" and start down a road to being more hard core.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
And here is the problem that you don't want to openly admit to. I'm not even talkin about casual players. I brought them up becasue like you said casual players BECOME hardcore players. If you have casual players who feel the reward is not there, wrather than just out |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Can you name me an MMO with PvP where the best (PvP) gear doesn't provide an advantage, and where the person with the most of it wouldn't have the edge in a contest between equally skilled opponents?
That's what gear is for. If it didn't do anything no one would want it. If you can't name a game like that, what are you asking for? If you can name a game like that, why aren't you playing it? And please, please don't head down the road of mixing PvP and "casual" players. That will never end well. There is not, and never will be, such a thing as "casual PvP" in any open-access PvP environment. The "hard core" players will always have the best, most tweaked, and most effective builds, gear, tactics and planning. The "casual" players never, ever get to compete on even footing with them, because (by definition), they don't put in the time and effort the hard core players do. The minute the "casual" player starts working to catch up with the hard-core crowd they stop being "casual" and start down a road to being more hard core. |
extremely hard to reach then you will loose them.
The rate at which highend loot is dropped affects all aspects of the game, PvE and PvP. To simply say the game is still functional or you can still play the game without these items totally misleads people into believeing the quality of gameplay stays the same. It does make a difference when your teamed with someone on a mission that you yourself have but they are able to handle the mission much better because of high end loot. It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak. These are things you are not saying that make your original argument just as bad as people who whine for the easy way out.
Earlier I mixed end game content with activities. This was not by mistake, purple drops have become end game content. At 50 the race is on for the Broken build pure and simple. I
won't go back into PvP because you obviously agree that Purple drops DO make a difference in the type of experience a player gets if they are on the low end. Which is different than a player that does not know how to PvP. They can learn how through time (granted they have some comprehension for whats going on) even with that they may or may not get highend loot.
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If they are casual, they don't care much about these rewards. If they are going to leave over feeling they can never achieve hardcore rewards, then they are not casual players.|
Originally Posted by ___TK___
And here is the problem that you don't want to openly admit to. I'm not even talkin about casual players. I brought them up becasue like you said casual players BECOME hardcore players. If you have casual players who feel the reward is not there, wrather than just out
extremely hard to reach then you will loose them. |
You don't make this binary transition from being a casual player to a hardcore one. This game has absolutely excellent support for making that transition gradually. You don't start with hard core IOs. You can improve your characters significantly by using cheap common and uncommon IOs. Then, if you want to keep investing, you can escalate to rare IO sets. They cost more, but except for the most amazing of them, they're quite attainable if you do any of the following.
- Play often at 50
- Use the market as an income generator
- Focus on merits and sell random rolls
- Focus on merits and sell key, valuable recipes or crafted IOs
Then, if you really want to be the hardest of the hardcore, you can look at purples. Because you only need them to be the most extreme of builds. Their biggest benefits are their high recharge, which not all builds even benefit that much from.
Purple drop rates do not influence any of the above.
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| To simply say the game is still functional or you can still play the game without these items totally misleads people into believeing the quality of gameplay stays the same. |
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| It does make a difference when your teamed with someone on a mission that you yourself have but they are able to handle the mission much better because of high end loot. |
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| It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak. |
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| These are things you are not saying that make your original argument just as bad as people who whine for the easy way out. |
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| Earlier I mixed end game content with activities. This was not by mistake, purple drops have become end game content. |
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At 50 the race is on for the Broken build pure and simple. I won't go back into PvP because you obviously agree that Purple drops DO make a difference in the type of experience a player gets if they are on the low end. Which is different than a player that does not know how to PvP. They can learn how through time (granted they have some comprehension for whats going on) even with that they may or may not get highend loot. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Seriously, I cannot relate that to the game I play in any way, to the extent that I don't even feel like we're both talking about CoX.|
Originally Posted by ___TK___
It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak.
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I have one super-purpley character, one character with a couple of purple sets, and a bunch of characters who have either modestly priced set IO or common IOs. I've never, ever felt that they provide much of a different teaming experience. There are so many buffs and debuffs flying around on most teams that pretty much anything feels uber.
Maybe it's different on other servers, but I've never, ever seen anyone putting a team together care a whit about IOs, either. Offer a team a purpled-out blaster, or a generically-IOed rad/rad defender, and I think most teams would rather have the latter.
The one area I'll grant that puples do make a big difference is exemping down (kind of the opposite of end-game content, but let's ignore that). Purples are *great* for running the low-level TFs and still having enough recharge etc to splat stuff at a satisfying rate. However, I understand that it's possible to maintain high numbers with all sets, by buying the doubles, triples and quads at the appropriate levels.
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Originally Posted by ___TK___
If you have casual players who feel the reward is not there, wrather than just out extremely hard to reach then you will loose them.
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I consider myself a semi-casual player, despite the amount of time I spend on the game, because I'm not all that into the numbers, or min-maxing builds. F'rex, I'd rather stick X-ray eyes in a build because it looks cool, even if I have to drop hasten to fit it in. And, like I said, I have a couple of characters with purples in their builds, and they are just not so awesome that I feel I'm missing anything by not having them in other characters. It impacts my enjoyment of playing them not at all. I see plenty of 50s, including long-term vets, running around the game with zero set bonuses, which suggests there are large numbers of very experienced players out there having a fine time without any sets.
I think it does more service to casual players to tell them 'no, really, purples are not as uber as you might think, they're candy for the hardcore, just don't worry about them', than to suggest that if they don't have them they won't be able to team well.
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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This. How much do you have to spend on IO's to get the equivalent of Adrenaline Boost?
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Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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This is the only MMO that I consider myself a hard-core player of. The rest I've merely dabbled in, and consider myself a casual player. In this game, I'll do whatever it takes to get my Gladiator's Armor +3% defense IO. I know exactly how it fits into my build, why it's there, and what I would lose if I didn't have it. In other games, I frankly couldn't care less what raid gear the hard core players are using. Why should I? It has NOTHING to do with my enjoyment of the leveling up experience and exploring the game, which is all I'm there for.|
Originally Posted by ___TK___
And here is the problem that you don't want to openly admit to. I'm not even talkin about casual players. I brought them up becasue like you said casual players BECOME hardcore players. If you have casual players who feel the reward is not there, wrather than just out
extremely hard to reach then you will loose them. |
Do you REALLY think casual players care about high end raid gear? That's just so... well, I'm just one guy, and maybe I'm not typical, but I couldn't care less.
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Originally Posted by ___TK___
To simply say the game is still functional or you can still play the game without these items totally misleads people into believeing the quality of gameplay stays the same.
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Look, I like a challenge. I assume most people do as well. I assume most people want to feel threatened by their enemies. To triumph, yes, but to always be at SOME risk.
Guess what happens when you make an uber build? The challenge vanishes. Ah, but now we have the new difficulty levels so we can add it back! Yes, but do YOU enjoy spending five minutes on each spawn because you cranked it up to +4x8? Do you WANT your missions to take hours? Would that make it more fun for you?
When you make an uber build, the challenge becomes FINDING a challenge. Because the regular game is pretty much RUINED for you.
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Originally Posted by ___TK___
It does make a difference when your teamed with someone on a mission that you yourself have but they are able to handle the mission much better because of high end loot. It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak.
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But since there are a lot more SO, common IO and frankenslotted perfectly-average builds out there, chances are you'll find a team that's a better match for you by NOT giving yourself an uber build.
OK, I suppose it could inflate your ego to be BETTER than everyone else on your team, but at that point, you're no longer the casual player struggling to keep up, and you get even less sympathy from me if you complain. You probably get open mockery at that point.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Claims that one has to farm or play the game in other degenerate ways to earn huge wealth come down to one thing. Lies. If you read this thread at all, you have to know better, and thus have to be lying. Yes, I am calling your post a lie, flat out, no holds barred. For posting it you deserves all the respect any liar does.
Greater power is supposed to take longer attain. Otherwise, there is no achievement. Without "hard" to attain goals, the devs get no sustained subscriptions and the players get no sense of achievement. It's that simple, and the only thing worth arguing about is how "hard" is hard enough.
People like me are proof it's not actually all that hard. People like you are proof that some people don't actually know what they're talking about, but are willing to villify the people who do to make themselves look better.
As for your claims...
Let's see. I have played the same level fifty character every day, very nearly for about three hours since around early to mid may. I don't know if the development team would be able to verify something like that, but I wish they would.
Since that time, I have gotten one purple drop. One. I don't know if there's a record of that somewhere on the server, but I would love it if they could verify that as well.
Now, the character is about two and a half years old, and used to be played every other day or so. He runs in level fifty missions often for badging purposes and because there are arcs that I like to do over again. I enjoy the patron arcs, and do any task forces that come my way.
In all that time, like I've earlier stated, I have gotten one purple drop. Which was fairly recent, a little less than a month ago I think.
So...
Since my experience is different from yours, and my opinion different from yours, I MUST be lying.
Yeah.... no....
And since I actually play instead of farm, the fault must lie with me, not with the design...
Yeah... no...
Since I've actually only ever received one purple drop, I must be killing the mobs wrong... No wait, I must be playing the game wrong... No wait... I must be... lying?
Yeah... no...
Since I find that in my experience this manner of dropping recipes is not working, and am irritated about it, I must be... "one of those OTHER people that aren't like you".
Yeah... no.
You claim that "people like you" (and how interesting is that) are proof of a thing. Well then, "people like me" must be proof of something else. I don't mind working to achieve a thing. At all, and kind of prefer it actually. I am certainly not one of "the people like them" that want something for nothing. I've been playing a dom with an (until recently) gimped primary for nearly three years. Something for nothing is not on my list of necessaries.
Regardless of what you think based on a post on an internet game forum board that you chose to take as a personal attack, I am not what you seem to think.
But this game is set up in a manner that no other game is, and trying to have the same kinds of raid rule drop tables as these other games doesn't work very well. These new changes don't seem to have changed anything for me, certainly. So, while the OP and yourself and "people like you" are raking in the effortless rewards, sniping at "people like them" that also play and wonder what all the fuss is about, it is clear that there is a breakdown between your collective experience and mine.
So, I'll just leave this with "people like you" and your militant charm on one side of the equation, and "people not like you" on another, and we'll see what happens as things move forward.
What's also interesting to me is the assumption that I am "whining" because I'm not rolling in infamy/influence. I don't recall ever stating anything of the kind, and am actually doing quite well in the course of normal gameplay. My statement wasn't even related to game currency, just the state of affairs on how it is being managed or not managed.
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!