The Purple Answer


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___TK___ View Post
But even I understand that if you isolate the end-game material to only the "Hard-Core" players you kill the game in its entirety.

If anyone has ever wondered what exactly the gibbering of a confused, deluded mind sounds like, this is your lucky day!


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchybeast View Post
I think it does more service to casual players to tell them 'no, really, purples are not as uber as you might think, they're candy for the hardcore, just don't worry about them', than to suggest that if they don't have them they won't be able to team well.
Exactly. Rarest does not mean best. Let's take my newest multi-billion influence build project. As currently planned, I have one set of five purples and two single purples. I also have a set of three Nightmares, which are usually vendor trash. I bought crafted ones at buy it nao prices, and they were STILL less than the crafting cost. Purples are just a tool like any other set. Use the right tool for the job, even if it's vendor trash.

I have found purples most useful for three different cases. First, a build that depends on high recharge for performance - perma Dull Pain, high end DPS chain, whatever it might be. Second, in an attack that needs high recharge enhancement. Third, where you're frankenslotting a power and a specific purple offers a big dose of the needed enhancements.

So yes, purples are not as uber as you might think from their rarity. They're just sets. They happen to be good sets for particular purposes, but that's all. Mako's Bite is also a great set for a particular purpose. Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control is a MUCH more important set for most of my builds. Blessing of the Zephyr are amazing. It goes on and on. Purples are nothing particularly special; they're just rare. If you treat purples like they're BY DEFINITION better than all alternatives, and squeeze in as many as you can, your build is going to be borked.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
I have found purples most useful for three different cases. First, a build that depends on high recharge for performance - perma Dull Pain, high end DPS chain, whatever it might be. Second, in an attack that needs high recharge enhancement. Third, where you're frankenslotting a power and a specific purple offers a big dose of the needed enhancements.
I'd add throwing a purple proc into an aoe power to that list.

Sure I'm easily amused, but the Goat dropping Rain of Fire on a big pull and knocking half of them on their keisters never gets old. Thank you, Ragnarok: Chance for Knockdown!


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
I'd add throwing a purple proc into an aoe power to that list.

Sure I'm easily amused, but the Goat dropping Rain of Fire on a big pull and knocking half of them on their keisters never gets old. Thank you, Ragnarok: Chance for Knockdown!
Totally agree here. And the procs are nearly always (dare I say, always) the cheapest of the 6 enhancements or recipes when purchasing on the Market, which just adds to their attractiveness.

Werner's point is right on -- purples are rare, but rare does not equal uber (necessarily). IO sets are highly situational, and what works for one power, AT or character concept does not necessarily work as well in another.


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Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___TK___ View Post
To simply say the game is still functional or you can still play the game without these items totally misleads people into believeing the quality of gameplay stays the same.
I have a number of rather heavily IO'd builds, including purples. I have even more characters that are not. Guess what? Both types are fun to play. The level of difference between the two is much smaller than you make it out to be. A good player, with a well thought-out SO build will outperform a bad player with a poorly constructed build any day of the week, no matter how many billions the bad player spends on purples for his gimped build.

Quote:
It does make a difference when your teamed with someone on a mission that you yourself have but they are able to handle the mission much better because of high end loot.
envy
1. a feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.

Quote:
It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak.
I'm calling shenanigans here. In the entire time I have been playing this game, I have never once seen an example of a player being kicked from a team or otherwise discriminated against because they didn't have an IO'd build.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
I'm calling shenanigans here. In the entire time I have been playing this game, I have never once seen an example of a player being kicked from a team or otherwise discriminated against because they didn't have an IO'd build.
The awesome thing about this urban legend is that it's the same as the "I didn't have an SO'ed build so nobody would team with me!" urban legend of the pre-inventions game.

On my last foray into WoWlandia the phrase "must be well geared" was attached to a majority of the team requests I saw. I can honestly say I've *never* seen anything like that in this game.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
On my last foray into WoWlandia the phrase "must be well geared" was attached to a majority of the team requests I saw. I can honestly say I've *never* seen anything like that in this game.
I did once see someone on global channels trying to form a team for STF and insisting that all participants be IO'd, he got roundly mocked for it .


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
I did once see someone on global channels trying to form a team for STF and insisting that all participants be IO'd, he got roundly mocked for it .
As he deserved. I would have joined in the mocking as well given the opportunity.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Exactly. Rarest does not mean best.

...


Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control is a MUCH more important set for most of my builds. Blessing of the Zephyr are amazing. It goes on and on. Purples are nothing particularly special; they're just rare.
I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head. For my builds, having a set of Gaussian's, BotZs, Basilisk's Gaze or even Crushing Impacts are far more important than having purples in the build. Purples basically come when I have played the 50 a ton and have the opportunity to replace the Crushing Impacts for the miniscule amount of additional recharge they offer. I put them in not because I need to, but because I can.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Exactly. Rarest does not mean best.
<snip>
So yes, purples are not as uber as you might think from their rarity. They're just sets. They happen to be good sets for particular purposes, but that's all. Mako's Bite is also a great set for a particular purpose. Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control is a MUCH more important set for most of my builds. Blessing of the Zephyr are amazing. It goes on and on. Purples are nothing particularly special; they're just rare. If you treat purples like they're BY DEFINITION better than all alternatives, and squeeze in as many as you can, your build is going to be borked.
This.

I still don't have a single purple IO slotted in any of my toons. It's got nothing
to do with price (since I have 5-10B in inf across my active toons - I've stopped
counting exactly but I know it's somewhere in that range).

It's a simple fact that the sets I buy for those various toons are more than
effective enough that I've never felt any particular need for purples (tho
I do kind of like the Goat's Ragnarok proc idea - hmmm).

I've never gone in for Pylon or AV soloing or other similar activities (though
I don't have a problem with folks that enjoy that), but, my AoE toons can
run the Cimeoran Wall with impunity, my PvP toons have earned their 400
rep, and all of my toons perform well (according to the standards and
playstyle I set for them).

Simply put, purples are reasonably obtainable if you actually want them,
and completely forgettable if you don't.


Regards,
4


I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.

 

Posted

I wouldn't go quite that far. You're not going to get your attack chain down to followup, slash, focus, repeat while solo without purples.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

I use them to get gobs of recharge while putting other things in the usual suspects, such as Numina sets in my heals or ToD in my melee attacks. It helps me focus on multiple set bonuses at once for builds that can use them. (+Def and +Rech on a /Regen character comes to mind.)

But they still aren't a universal end-all-be-all for sure. I really like them, but like anything, they have their uses and aren't a panacea for every build. (Pun mostly unintended.)


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___TK___ View Post

The rate at which highend loot is dropped affects all aspects of the game, PvE and PvP. To simply say the game is still functional or you can still play the game without these items totally misleads people into believeing the quality of gameplay stays the same. It does make a difference when your teamed with someone on a mission that you yourself have but they are able to handle the mission much better because of high end loot. It does make a difference when you try to team with people but you can't because your build is too weak. These are things you are not saying that make your original argument just as bad as people who whine for the easy way out.

.
Kinda.

I run ITFs, TFs, missions on Pinnacle, Champion and Infinity all the time. Regularly do 25-40 minute ITFs and not a lot of those are with 8 people with super purple builds. All people do is follow instructions and we move on.

I have hardly ever seen someone turned down because their builds were too weak. What might happen, though, is people will take 50s first then fill with 35s or 40s for an ITF or whatnot. The only time I've seen preferences for IOd builds was for Master ITF/LRSF/Reichsmann TF/SF runs. Even then, preference goes to people that are excperienced with their builds over those all twinked out.

Sure, for PvP I can see it or for speed running certain tasks or for very quick accomplishment of exemplared tasks.

You really do just need SOs though. My Illusion/Trick Arrow is level 36 and has only used SOs. She does fine. She cooperates with mission leaders, helps with crowd control and debuffs, has stealth/temporary team recall/vet recall when needed...nothing fancy here. Of course, her build two will have a ton of purples and set IOs.

Heck, we had some PvP within sg the other day and people with average builds did well after I explained to them what inspirations would be best, how to best synergize use of their powers, etc...I am simply not seeing 'teh d00m' as far as IOs go, though admittedly some of the groups that I run with are rather hardcore as far as that goes.

Remember, the mobs are just as easy to punch out as they were 'in the day'.


Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
You really do just need SOs though.
Agreed, although I go for generic IOs because I hate scrolling through the stupid disorganized confusing SO listings at the stores.

But I have a bunch of characters at various levels who do great without a single set bonus.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Standard intro = As per my other threads, people can know, I am complainer. About the rain. About people. About Paris Hilton on Supernatural. About everything. If you hit 40 years old+ like me, knock on my door and come show me how you’re a nice guy halo-head; then more power to you. You’re better than me.

I complained about the AE badge removal. Few people agreed. It didn’t get reversed. I didn’t leave CoH. I’m just doing MUCH less AE, that’s all. No interest? No playing. The end.

However, I can’t in good conscience complain about purple drops. I’ve moved from doing regular content, having read almost all of it; to repeating my favourite arcs, and chip away at the INF needed to get purple recipes / ENH. I get a purple during a run? Cool. I either use it, or sell it to get an equivalent purple.

I play with Zero, Zip, Nada, Bupkis challenge, and I like it that way. I play CoH (when I solo that is… different animal with RL friends and with wife… they now like to charge and sort the bodies, ours or theirs… later) like Tetris permanently stuck on L1. 1-3 times a week, I try either my favourite Task Force (A Hero’s Hero, just for the variety), or, another on a whimsy, and spend 2 hours daydreaming, thinking about my day, clicking auto-attack when an Elite Boss is a guaranteed win, but a long Fred Flintstone fight (you hit me, I hit you, you hit me, I hit you…) and get myself a drink.

I don’t think you get more casual than that.

Out of the 30 Purples I want, I have 18. 18! And some are the “good” ones. You know, the 200M+ ones. Sure, some are the cheap 50M. but most are 110M+. If I really wanted to, I could have played 2 TF a day, 4-5 days a week, and I’d have my sets by now.

But, for me, why would I rush to get to a point where Redeemer (my main) is essentially shelved until Rogue, or some other expansion / issue comes up? Why hurry to be on top and have nothing to do? (Obviously, I’m not PvP, so I’m not commenting about that aspect of the game)

Hate to be old, crotchety, and all that, with the usual platitudes, but I gotta. It’s the journey, not the destination. I like playing CoH, so I play it. That why I ran… RAN away from EverQuest when I found CoH. EQ, for me at least, had been 8 years of destination > journey, with the first 3 being tolerable only because RL friends played. Then they quit. So now I’m here.

So, Purples are, well, just fine the way they are, at least for me. Between purples, and the now more reasonable “epic” badges, I’m in no hurry to make the game obsolete for me. And, as many others have said, CoH is almost unique in its measure that end game equipment is Timesink based, not raid based.

Can’t get better than that for me.

So, if you forget all else I said, remember this please = enjoy playing the game. Don’t focus so much on the goals. Don’t rush to make the game obsolete for you. After all, it is a game, not a job. Enjoy it while it lasts…


 

Posted

I loved that post.

Someone around here has a quote in their sig from another forum poster, saying something like "Racing to 50 in CoH is like racing to the end of your vacation." Purples are supposed to be like that too. When we have no more goals to achieve, why are we playing?


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
I loved that post.

Someone around here has a quote in their sig from another forum poster, saying something like "Racing to 50 in CoH is like racing to the end of your vacation." Purples are supposed to be like that too. When we have no more goals to achieve, why are we playing?
Pretty sure that quote was from Arcanaville.


@Demobot

Also on Steam

 

Posted

I'm pretty sure you're right.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
I'm pretty sure you're right.
I am certain it was Arcanaville also (I recall seeing the sig quote, not the original post by Arcana).

It stuck in my memory because I completely disagree with it -- I commonly "race" to 50 on every new toon I create, because for me, the game BEGINS at 50. I play my 50s exclusively (save any projects I'm working on getting to 50, and that's usually by using another 50 to help them get there).

Of course, many people enjoy playing their characters on the journey to 50 -- and that's great. It's something I really like about CoX, that there are SO many ways to enjoy the game, and there's certainly no "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy it (except for exploits).

But I get the quote, and it is a great quote for those who do primarily enjoy the journey.


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StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here

 

Posted

I'm not crazy about PLing or racing to 50. There are some great story arcs in between 1 and 50 including all of Faultline, some in FF, and Brickstown. One of my favorites is the Revenant Hero Project, I wish they'd revamp that story and bring it up to date with some new features.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
I loved that post.

Someone around here has a quote in their sig from another forum poster, saying something like "Racing to 50 in CoH is like racing to the end of your vacation." Purples are supposed to be like that too. When we have no more goals to achieve, why are we playing?
Confirmed. Here's the thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=136868

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Level 50 doesn't unlock fun. Level 50 will be about as much fun as levels 1 through 49.

Unlike some other games for which the level progression is the means to unlock a different game, in CoH racing to 50 is like trying to race to the end of your vacation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Enigma View Post
[ QUOTE ]
...in CoH racing to 50 is like trying to race to the end of your vacation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great comparison. Sigged.
Nothing like a good mystery. And a good quote!


 

Posted

Excellent post. I especially enjoyed this bit:

Quote:
If you are not prepared to jump through the hoops the Devs created in order to earn purples, then you do not deserve them. If you feel you deserve them simply because they exist, and you pay your $15/month, I recommend you keep it quiet. You have a sense of entitlement that people in this forum will laugh at. It's about as silly as demanding a Hummer just because you have a Driver's License. Things do not work that way in the real world, and they don't work that way in the game. The high end loot in this game is already far easier to get than in most other MMOs. The Devs will NEVER make purples common enough that casual players can get lots of them.
Announcement: The following comments are not intended to be self-aggrandizing in any way, shape or form. They are , however, intended to support the OP's thesis and point out the utter futility of time spent shiny hunting just for the 'look at me, aren't I l337' attitude.


I have spent countless hours in endgame content in EQ2 before coming to this game. During the last two years, nearly all of my time was spent in raid zones when not farming to support raiding (vicious circle, yes indeed ). During that time, I was able to acquire zero, yes zero pieces of endgame armor for my Inquisitor. Most of this had to do with rarity of the drops, but the other bit had to due with my horrible luck.

"OK Dom, we get that you couldn't win a lotto with noone lotting against you and loaded dice...so what?"

A valid question. The point is this. As those around me began to acquire their respective gear, a very curious thing happened. While watching parses, we all discovered that everyone's performance was relatively the same as it had always been. I would routinely place first, second or third on the healing parse dependant on what we were fighting and other factors related to the specific encounter in question. Of the 6 healers on the raidforce, 3 of us would rotate within the top three. The other three never made it past fourth. This same scenario was repeated among the different classes of damage dealers.

The Takeaway: gear is not a substitute for knowledge and skill.

All to often we heard complaints such as: " if I can just get the Helm of (X), I'll be awesome", and " I can never top the parse because you all have the (x) and I don't." That last was was particularly amusing as only one person of those pointed out actually had that item, and they were never at the top of the parse...

So in the end, MMO's have three types of people when it comes to endgame. Those that work hard and (sometimes) earn their gear and rep. Those that ride the coattales of the first and whine about not having the best gear untill they are placated. And the last group, to which I now belong...those that no longer care and just want to log in and have a good time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
But I get the quote, and it is a great quote for those who do primarily enjoy the journey.
More to the point, though, even though you personally do race to 50, and maybe even race to purples for those 50s, you seem to have other goals that keep you going. Maybe it's creating a lot of different characters. Maybe it's something completely not goal-driven - you might completely space on what the game is like if you play with friends every night. The important lesson in the quote's message is that if you race to the end of your personal journey, you won't have anything else to do.

And here's the part so many posters don't seem to get. The devs intended attaining multiple purples sets was to require a journey.

Just like we aren't supposed to *poof* and hit 50, they wanted us to have to take time to attain purples. Now, there are people who race to 50 likely faster than the dev's target speed for that, and there are people who attain purples more quickly than others. Both undertake various specific strategies to achieve those rapid attainments. Everyone is welcome (within some dev-imposed restrictions) to emulate those strategies. No one should expect the devs to make the same rewards available at the same speed to people who do nothing special.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Eric Nelson: What exactly do you do at 50 that is so much better than what you do at 49?
Everything.

LGTF. ITF. STF/LRSF. Hami Raids. Accolade collecting. Slotting/enhancing. Customizing powerset colors. Helping out others (SG, global channels, friends). The list goes on and on.

And before you say, "But you can do all those things at 49!", your question is flawed. Does anyone "race to 49"? The way I read your question is more "What exactly do you do at 50 that is so much better than what you do at [1/8/15/23/31/42]?" And my answer is in my original post. I like to play a fully-realized character, one who has all resources available to her/him.

That's how I enjoy the game. I just got my 27th 50 today, and I'm sure I'll be getting more. I don't denigrade anyone for enjoying the journey -- that's great and I'm glad they are digging that aspect of CoX. I remember playing my first toons, and it's a wonderful memory, going through the content for the first time. But I've "been there, done that" and doing the same lowbie content with character after character (with relatively limited resources) just isn't interesting to me. I get excited to add another potentially-useful toon to my stable of 50s, get it all set up and working (and not in all cases with purples -- generic IOs work just fine and can be had on a budget if one pays attention) and then be able to swap over to it when someone needs assistance with something.


Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
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StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here