Dark Miasma/Storm Summoning - Are They Powerful Sets?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2009-09-10 19:53 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Again I have found that the reality is most people dont know anything about the sets and because they cannot see anything happening to their toons DIRECTLY if buffs, little glowing number over their heads, glowing bodies with RA's and AM's they erroneously assume that these sets ( as well as other by the way. Trick Arrow and Cold often get ignored ) arent as good or dont do much.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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-regen is far from the most useful debuff against an AV. A level 50 AV has 85% resistance to -regen. In contrast, -dmg and -res are only resisted by the particular AV's damage resistance. A dark defender can bring 90% -dmg to the table (stacked Darkest Night and Twilight Grasp from defender and Dark Servant), enough to make any AV into a kitten, as well as 30% -res. And BTW, dark also brings 100% -regen (stacked Twilight Grasp).|
Originally Posted by Celidya
-one or multiples AVs, and against them the debuffs aren't worth much. The most useful debuff is -regen, i would much prefer to have some buffs against an AV than all the DM debuffs together
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Originally Posted by Celidya
Storm ? All it brings is offense.
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Pretty much disagree with everything you said.
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To be fair, -res and -def is offense. But yeah, storm is so much more than offense, apart from what has been listed there's some control/mitigation aspects in the repel, stuns, slows and knockbacks.
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Originally Posted by _Uun_
What? Seriously? How about -res, -rch, -def, -tohit and kd?
Pretty much disagree with everything you said. |
Icelock - Ice/Storm Controller
Command Bot 1 - Bot/Traps MM
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-res can be defense, but only if you've also got -dam (as it increases the effect of the latter)
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Originally Posted by Icelock
To be fair, -res and -def is offense. .
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Well, if you didn't miss on that heal, you wouldn't have had to teleport them to rez them. ;P|
Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
I played a Dark/Dark Defender to 50... and that character was very good at increasing the survival of the team.
Did I get scoffed at when my heal missed? Certainly. But when I teleported the corpses of like 5 team members and simultaneously resurrected them WHILE debuffing all the enemies that had just killed us, they had a different tune to sing. Not to mention all the other things that make me love Dark Miasma (like the singing tentacles  ).It's unfortunate that I have been playing other characters a lot lately... perhaps I should dust him off. (He may just go Rogue.) |
That said, Dark & Storm are great sets. I think people are just going to prefere other sets, because those two sets lack -Regen.
I mean for AV teams, other sets are just better to have.
I know I prefered to take my Cold/ Defender over my Dark/ Defender on most things AV related. The debuff's I just found more useful.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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But Dark does have -Regen: Twilight Grasp has some, and it's stackable with Fluffy's (and I seem to remember reading somewhere that it self stacks too), while Howling Twilight has a pretty nice chunk of it (though it's not perma-able).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
That said, Dark & Storm are great sets. I think people are just going to prefere other sets, because those two sets lack -Regen.
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I am not disputing your words Icelock. I am still simmering over the slanderous remark to which you responded.|
Originally Posted by Icelock
To be fair, -res and -def is offense. But yeah, storm is so much more than offense, apart from what has been listed there's some control/mitigation aspects in the repel, stuns, slows and knockbacks.
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Aye, there are repels, stuns, slows, and knockbacks to be sure.
In addition, O2 - protects from sleep, disorient and endurance drain. Did you ever want to laugh off a full blast from a sapper or a mu adept? Only insulation shield provides such endurance drain protection.
Steamy Mist - General PbAoE defense of 5%, and a base resistance of 20% to energy, fire, cold, and confuse (take that you succubi). I consider this resistance material in protecting a team from foes especially the Circle of Thorns.
Tornado, definitely on the chaotic side, has two delicious attributes, it can't be defeated and it never misses. If nothing else it's the best 'oh crap' button ever.
I will repeat for emphasis: tons of slow, -recharge, stun, repel, knockback and knockdown. There are a couple subtle, immutable benefits of the storm set. Many seem to forget or not know that Snow Storm is an 'interrupt'. See that embalmed abomination... that skyraider raider engineer? Do you hate suicide bombers? forcefield generators. Slap snowstorm on the triggering mob and they cannot perform their most irritating moves. Snowstorm doesn't miss. Second unknown benefit from storm: Gale trumps alpha. I have rarely seen an attack from stealth, in steamy mist, where Gale does not preempt counterstrikes of foes that Gale hits. Gale misses more than I like and counterattacks come from them, but if they go flying they don't do their, 'wait I am prescient and will hold/stun/mez/nuke before the gale takes affect' that some other powers suffer from.
This turned into a rant again... sorry.
TL;DR version 'Oh yeah? what about gale, steamy mist and snowstorm?'
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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500% regen reduction in HT, 180 sec recharge - which you can whittle down with IOs and hasten.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
But Dark does have -Regen: Twilight Grasp has some, and it's stackable with Fluffy's (and I seem to remember reading somewhere that it self stacks too), while Howling Twilight has a pretty nice chunk of it (though it's not perma-able).
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Twilight grasp's -regen definitely self-stacks.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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Okay, then most players of Dark/ and Kin/ don't want to spam their heal. To make it go unnoticed. I never noticed the -Regen component in my Dark/ but then I played it before they showed info, I'll have to go back and check.|
Originally Posted by PhroX
But Dark does have -Regen: Twilight Grasp has some, and it's stackable with Fluffy's (and I seem to remember reading somewhere that it self stacks too), while Howling Twilight has a pretty nice chunk of it (though it's not perma-able).
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I know KIN has it in it's heal, but I find KIN's don't usually want to spam their heal when needed (or at least the KINs I've run with lately, when going up against AVs).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You could not be more wrong if you tried.|
Originally Posted by Celidya
Dark Miasma is about average i think. I think i don't have the same standard as all the posters above shouting how great both sets are, really. DM offers some useful things but when it comes to keep the team alive i think it's barely average.
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Look at my sig. I am a power gamer. There's a reason I have four listed Dark Miasmists. I actually have five, but one's lowish level and thus didn't make the "cut" for my sig.
If you think Dark Miasma is barely average, you don't know how to use it. It's really that simple.
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| one or multiples AVs, and against them the debuffs aren't worth much. The most useful debuff is -regen, i would much prefer to have some buffs against an AV than all the DM debuffs together |
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| massive aggro : the anchored debuffs are inferior to buffs for a good reason : they will NEVER hit all the mobs in the area when the things are not under control. And that's exactly when you need them the most. |
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| An effect applied on the mobs instead of the players will never be as good as the other way around. Against any serious threat, by the time you can cast the debuff and/or manage to bring all the mobs in range of it, it will be too late. Any ambush, unwanted aggro, mobs spread all over the room, and the debuffs are more or less useless while the buffs are useful all the time. So i would take a FF, sonic, cold or even empath over a Dark miasma if what i need is someone to keep me alive. |
One additional note. If you want a Defender or Corr who's good at helping themselves, you can't do a whole lot better than Dark or Rad for the buff/debuff set.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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If you played it a really long time ago (before Issue 4), it was before the -regen effects were added.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Okay, then most players of Dark/ and Kin/ don't want to spam their heal. To make it go unnoticed. I never noticed the -Regen component in my Dark/ but then I played it before they showed info, I'll have to go back and check.
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I consider the effect highly noticeable on things like AVs and GMs. On my DDD I once joined a team consisting only of Tanker and a Scrapper fighting the Kronos Titan just before server maintenance. Before I joined, they couldn't bring its HP down. Once I joined, we defeated it. I'm confident it wasn't my single-target DPS that turned the tide.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Only a selfish person would think that STORM and DARK are weak sets and not want them on their team.
Everyone calls for a KIN. The reason is simple, all they care about is the crack. Kin is all about buffing. Most people only pay attention to their toon. That makes them selfish. Selfish people only care about what something does for them. Most selfish people also want recognition that something is helping them. If they can not see the effects then it is not happening. You never see "Inertial Reduction plz"
Dark Miasma-ists and Storm-ites steal that thunder.
When AVs are involved everyone screams for a RAD. That is because RAD is fire and forget, for the most part. You sit there you put your heal on auto, drop your toggles, and cast AM when its up. Really its the AM that most people are after, since the heal in RAD is pretty crappy when you compare it as a "healing" set. AM fits the build for what most people want out of KINs. They want the buffs because it makes them more powerful. RAD is powerful, there is no doubt. However RAD is not as good in as many situations as a storm or a dark.
That is why people don't care for steamy mist, leadership toggles, etc. They are not persistent on them. You have to be in range, that means they can't then go off and take out the whole map by themselves. That reminds them they aren't as powerful as they think. Cast pain bringer on them and they can go anywhere they want with that and believe they are that good. Now they can be the Michael Jordan they want to be.
The power of Dark Miasma and Storm have been well documented. Dark Miasma is the best user friendly set in the game. You could give the set to a 5 yr old and they will be very good with it. People hate on storm because of the chaos it can create. But any person who actually teams to be a part of the team knows their true benefit/power.
People compare them to pain, because pain is all about buffing your teammates. Since that is all most people really care about it is seen as a better set. Those people could care less what you did to that mob, because all they want is big honking glow in the dark numbers over their head or in their status window. Not one of those people will ever turn and say, "you know that tar patch really helped me kill those guys quickly" or "wow with hurricane up that AV never laid a hand on me"
Just how some people are. Remember people also don't think that trollers are capable of damage, or that defenders have sets other then healing, or that leadership actually stacks and Assault is 18% damage coming from a defender, 15% from a troller or corruptor.
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Not technically, but if you're at the recharge cap, HT's recharge exactly equals its duration |
Originally Posted by PhroX
Howling Twilight has a pretty nice chunk of it (though it's not perma-able).
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(Of course, you've still got to account for the cast time, and getting to the recharge cap is rare)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I love Dark Miasma. My Dark/Rad just hit 50 the other day and I've duo'd him through the levels mostly with an Ice/Fire tank. One of the last mishes before dinging 50 we did was good old Dreck, as an AV. The fight was way too easy because Dreck just couldn't do enough damage and had his Regen and Res debuffed by 50% most of the time (Achilles Heel in Neutrino Bolt ftw!). His nuke hit me for 150 damage. Pathetic!
Now, there are sets that are more efficient at melting the AV faster (like my Cold/Sonic), but Dark certainly is able to make it a safe ride.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
I thank you all!
Because of this thread, I went back and looked over Dark Miasma again.
When I played my Dark/Ice to 50, I didn't know HT had a -regen component. I IOed her out, and she was nice, but now I see...I just wasn't playing her right. I should of been using HT on those AVs!
I just thought HT had a rez and stun ability.
So, what did I do? I went and rerolled a concept I wasn't happy with to Dark/Energy!
So much happier with the concept now! ANd I'm guessing I won't feel terrible on those AV's teams, where I just used TG, TP, DN...for -tohit, -res, and a very small amount of -regen. WIth HT's -500% Regen...I think I'll be very happy with it now VERY HAPPY!
<.< Who care's about the rez. Heh
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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If you're much of a badge hunter, it's nice for the heal badges. Every time you rez someone, you get credit for their full HP bar. And of course, HT is good for multiple targets at once.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
<.< Who care's about the rez. Heh
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All you need is lots of defeated people.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Just about everything is stronger than pain dom, including empathy.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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This has basically always been my theory... The same people, with full backup, tend to be the ones bragging about how uber their damage is today, missing the fact that it's because somebody gave the enemies -80% resistance and that the only reason they're able to string together that awesome AoE attack chain is because they have recovery and recharge buffs.|
Originally Posted by Sagamemnon
Everyone calls for a KIN. The reason is simple, all they care about is the crack. Kin is all about buffing. Most people only pay attention to their toon. That makes them selfish. Selfish people only care about what something does for them. Most selfish people also want recognition that something is helping them. If they can not see the effects then it is not happening. You never see "Inertial Reduction plz"
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| When AVs are involved everyone screams for a RAD. That is because RAD is fire and forget, for the most part. You sit there you put your heal on auto, drop your toggles, and cast AM when its up. Really its the AM that most people are after, since the heal in RAD is pretty crappy when you compare it as a "healing" set. AM fits the build for what most people want out of KINs. They want the buffs because it makes them more powerful. RAD is powerful, there is no doubt. However RAD is not as good in as many situations as a storm or a dark. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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Originally Posted by Sagamemnon
Everyone calls for a KIN. The reason is simple, all they care about is the crack. Kin is all about buffing. Most people only pay attention to their toon. That makes them selfish. Selfish people only care about what something does for them. Most selfish people also want recognition that something is helping them. If they can not see the effects then it is not happening. You never see "Inertial Reduction plz"
Dark Miasma-ists and Storm-ites steal that thunder. |
But at the same time:
*KABOOM!*
Team Leader: What happened?
Defender 1: He got Kinetics in my Dark Miasma!
Defender 2: He got Dark Miasma in my Kinetics!
Blaster: This is awesome!
Also one more thing I'd like to add;
Healing is the attribute that becomes more and more useless the more of it is available. And this happens very fast, generally two healers (yeah, I know, there aren't real healers..) are already too much and the other healer's spot could've been better spent by picking a buffer/debuffer.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
I think some of the problem is, not many seem to know about (At least for Dark Miasma) the -Regen in Howling Twilight.
I didn't know about it when I leveled my first Dark/ Defender. And the Dark/ Defender's I teamed with weren't using Howling Twilight as a -Regen (though I've seen some using it as a mass stun).
The part the really bothers me, is I don't know why I never noticed it before. 
I use Mids all the time, and it says it right there, but I just never noticed it.
As people in I know in game, and only one of them knew about it.
I enjoyed the Dark/Ice I had for the 50 levels, but my lack of -regen knowledge for AVs killed it for me.
But now!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Rip lightning storn ;(
>o> So. How you guys feel about a all dark/dark Superteam? Scrappers tankers defenders? Or even since i16 is going live possibly tomorrow A full Superteam! one of each. Dark/Dark Scrapper,Stalker,Brute,tank,defender,corrupter,Mas termind, warshade (Negative en damage?) \o/ It would be soooo much win.
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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Why bother? Just take 8 D3s, no need for the other ATs |
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
>o> So. How you guys feel about a all dark/dark Superteam? Scrappers tankers defenders? Or even since i16 is going live possibly tomorrow A full Superteam! one of each. Dark/Dark Scrapper,Stalker,Brute,tank,defender,corrupter,Mas termind, warshade (Negative en damage?) \o/ It would be soooo much win.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.