City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Reduced XP for Freakshow now

8_Ball

By 8_Ball,
Posted on: 2009-08-28 14:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzyx View Post
Nothing to see here...just another example of how farming never effects regular game play.
It doesn't. Heavy handed attempts to stop farming affect the regular game play. If the devs would just accept that it's going to happen and there's nothing they can do about it, we could all get on with playing the game...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriFoxfirega View Post

Personally, I think the fact that you get double defeat credit for the Freakshow was gift enough. :/

You still had to defeat them again, no? Or did they dissolve, and grant the xp..


"Frankly, I'm surprised it wasn't lowered long ago - like when Dreck got his timer added. Freaks have always been casual farm-bait."


And there are some vocal players on the forums who would advocate a near zero xp gain, which is why you have the rest of the player base always pushing back against any reductions.





 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
You still had to defeat them again, no? Or did they dissolve, and grant the xp.
I was curious about that.

Where do I find these magic freakshow that bestow double XP on me just for beating them once?

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Posted

The fact is that Freakshow are laughably easy to defeat compared to other groups at the same level... so you might as WELL be getting free XP.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
The fact is that Freakshow are laughably easy to defeat compared to other groups at the same level... so you might as WELL be getting free XP.
I've always found freaks at the lower levels to be as-or-more annoying than the other factions. Flyers, end drain, status effects, everybody has a self heal, hard hitting bosses.
If you're regen, or something with super high s/l resists maybe they're a breeze, but I've never thought they were.

And lets face it, at high levels pretty much everything is a breeze.

They didn't deserve a high XP modifier any more than they deserve a sub-standard XP modifier.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
The fact is that Freakshow are laughably easy to defeat compared to other groups at the same level... so you might as WELL be getting free XP.
I'm sorry Westley, but I call BS, I don't remember mooks ever self healing. Do you?

Have fun storm'in the Castle





 

Posted

With my FF/Elec Defender where *I* have endurance drain, good defense and status resistance, yes, they are a snap for me. Repulsion Bomb + Ball Lightning + Short Circuit, PFF for about two-five seconds and then do it again. BOOM, all dead but the boss, who is completely drained of endurance.

Mooks however have higher reistences to most types of damage, they go down MUCH slower for me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
You still had to defeat them again, no? Or did they dissolve, and grant the xp..
Again, at half-hitpoints, and without Dull Pain in the way. Though, I'm not sure if it's 50% health or only 30%. It's not like it takes a whole lot of additional effort, unless you were already struggling to take them out, or a Boss comes back up.

There's also a noticeable delay between 'defeat', 'rezzing', and 'attacking' that gives plenty of warning and time to react.

Don't over-estimate the difficulty just because they get back up - that's at least 20% of the mob potential of any map increased, with the potential rewards likewise increased by 20% as a result (thanks to Castle for that exact number).

 

Posted

I agree with Nethergoat (et al) for once in that respect, Freakshow have never been "easy xp" for me, certainly no easier than other factions. I consider them fairly standard. Dropping their reward to less than standard does not sit well with me.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primal View Post
I agree with Nethergoat (et al) for once in that respect, Freakshow have never been "easy xp" for me, certainly no easier than other factions. I consider them fairly standard. Dropping their reward to less than standard does not sit well with me.
At less then standard, we can agree. But that doesn't mean I exactly felt it was fair they had such a high modifier in the first place, for stuff that isn't really all that inconveniencing in and of itself. You pinned it exactly - they are fairly standard.

 

Posted

only took 5 years for the nerf... the devs (shakes head) are shooting themselves in foot... I understand the AE nerfing... I really do... and I agree with it....

but to, again, nerf XP on standard content mobs is really a BAD idea. Who cares if some players farm Freaks...

If this tunnel vision, laser sights dont change, the game will not survive. Fact is the majority of players I see/know farm. For different reasons and at different times. Its a very large piece of the player base. The people you seem to be caving into might not think so... but when the subs start falling like pouring rain, you will see that your development time would have been better spent in other areas.

Please reconsider any further nerfing of XP on standard content mobs. Freaks have been in game for years, they have rez'd for years, now this witch hunt hits yet another group.

Castle didnt mention the killer stuns and the KB this group also has....

this attitude the devs have taken has totally destroyed my excitement about i16 and Go-Ro.. keep up the good work...

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman View Post
The answer should be obvious, but I'll indulge you a bit. I personally find them annoying from time to time on any of the AT's you mentioned. Is that better?

As for "always being a cakewalk" are you referring to 40+ play or characters in the 20-40 range? That makes a big difference to the conversation. I will agree that for characters above 40 they are very easy. But, you know, there are other parts of the game. And for the lower level ranges where you can find Freakshow, I personally feel lowering their XP is unjustified as in that level range their challenge level is completely in line with other enemy types. For that reason I say make their modifier 1.0, not 0.8.

On a side note: I ran a Freakshow paper mission about an hour ago. Two of them self-rezzed in the entire mission. So for that mission, in I16, the XP reward would have been below average.
The rez should be a non-factor. It killing a mob, its the same threat, should give the standard xp again. Why not take away their rez instead of nerfing XP... stupid, thats the only word i can think of... sometimes.. i am just amazed of what silly things the devs decide to waste their time on.... Jack would be very proud!

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33n View Post
only took 5 years for the nerf... the devs (shakes head) are shooting themselves in foot... I understand the AE nerfing... I really do... and I agree with it....

but to, again, nerf XP on standard content mobs is really a BAD idea. Who cares if some players farm Freaks...

If this tunnel vision, laser sights dont change, the game will not survive. Fact is the majority of players I see/know farm. For different reasons and at different times. Its a very large piece of the player base. The people you seem to be caving into might not think so... but when the subs start falling like pouring rain, you will see that your development time would have been better spent in other areas.

Please reconsider any further nerfing of XP on standard content mobs. Freaks have been in game for years, they have rez'd for years, now this witch hunt hits yet another group.

Castle didnt mention the killer stuns and the KB this group also has....

this attitude the devs have taken has totally destroyed my excitement about i16 and Go-Ro.. keep up the good work...
This... can't... be... serious...

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Posted

This is a minor issue, seriously. I farm as much as the next guy, probably more. But I don't scribble down every number for maximum results.

Here's the facts. Freakshow have end drain, dull pain, self rez, allies that cast rez, abundant mezzes, and bosses with high Smash/Lethal resist.

That doesn't sound like an enemy group that should be worth less than The Council to me.

But, I don't really care. I might care more on my next run through the game with a Weapon using character though.


Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33n View Post
only took 5 years for the nerf... the devs (shakes head) are shooting themselves in foot... I understand the AE nerfing... I really do... and I agree with it....

but to, again, nerf XP on standard content mobs is really a BAD idea. Who cares if some players farm Freaks...

If this tunnel vision, laser sights dont change, the game will not survive. Fact is the majority of players I see/know farm. For different reasons and at different times. Its a very large piece of the player base. The people you seem to be caving into might not think so... but when the subs start falling like pouring rain, you will see that your development time would have been better spent in other areas.

Please reconsider any further nerfing of XP on standard content mobs. Freaks have been in game for years, they have rez'd for years, now this witch hunt hits yet another group.

Castle didnt mention the killer stuns and the KB this group also has....

this attitude the devs have taken has totally destroyed my excitement about i16 and Go-Ro.. keep up the good work...
Sir, I regret to inform you that geological surveys have declared your mountain a molehill. I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do. It's just simple geology!

Seriously, mang. The rewards were out of wack, and now they're slightly out of wack the other direction. It was silly to have them up that high, and I hope the devs choose to just normalize them so they're at least worth what they're actually capable of - just as much as any other enemy group at those levels.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33n View Post

Castle didnt mention the killer stuns and the KB this group also has....
"Killer stuns?" Have you made it to the higher levels and fought Malta? THOSE are killer - as in very common, often stacked because of how many mobs have them, and exceptionally long - stuns. That aside from Sappers, Gunslingers and the Titans. Freakshow stuns are nothing.

Same with KB. Freakshow KB has nothing notable to make it stand out. Council KBs as much.

 

Posted

Well, nerfing Freahshow exp is fine with me since I feel like I'm effectively losing exp by not fighting them, but making it that much lower just seems silly. Now instead of going out of my way to fight them I'll go out of my way to avoid them.

Can we get some pre-45 Circle of Thorns exp buffage while we're at it? And throw in Malta, Rularuu, and Knives of Artemis too.

 

Posted

Quote:
Now instead of going out of my way to fight them I'll go out of my way to avoid them.
Why? See, this is the mentality that I just don't understand. I play the game to play the game. I don't care how fast I'm levelling or what stuff I'm getting, I just ..... play.

I'd never avoid content because of "lesser" XP or seek out content because of "greater" XP, and I just don't understand the mentality of those that do.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
Why? See, this is the mentality that I just don't understand. I play the game to play the game. I don't care how fast I'm levelling or what stuff I'm getting, I just ..... play.

I'd never avoid content because of "lesser" XP or seek out content because of "greater" XP, and I just don't understand the mentality of those that do.
Protip:

Not everyone is you.


I don't pay much attention to numbers, but if an enemy is extra annoying, or under-rewarding for the amount of effort they take to defeat, I'm going to choose a different path when possible.

So will a lot of other people.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Throwing in perspective - in the same level ranges (20-50) that you encounter the Freakshow, you also regularly encounter the following as well:

The Lost (Exotic damage, Lts at this range start getting sleeps/disorients/KBs, bosses have area sleeps/holds); Are replaced at 30 with the Rikti (who have KD standard, and higher chances of mezzing all the way up, in addition to summoning ability)

The Tsoo (who start off 'annoying' and rapidly ascend into 'debilitating' once the Ink Men become standards)

The Devouring Earth (the emenators can be rough, but as they start gaining levels S/L resist becomes standard)

The Banished Pantheon (Minions have some KD, but the lieutenants and bosses are where the real trouble is)

The Circle of Thorns (they just get worse and worse as you level up, and in the pre-40 range have Earth Thorn Casters which are mez heavy as just minions)

The Warriors (KD/KB heavy; Most of the LTs and Bosses can crit for some ridiculous damage as well)

Cimerorans (Not really a huge threat)

The Council (They start adding more Warwolves, Vampyri, and Mekmen/Drones in this range - the Warwolves have significant mez-resistance and damage output, the Vampyri get some mez capability [especially as Lts and higher], and the Mekmen have high S/L/Psi damage resistance)

Crey Industries (The bosses and Lieutenants are the only worries here)

Longbow (What? Villains count. They start really getting obnoxious in this level range, and just get worse. Also included are the PPD Swat and up in here, because they tend to show up on the same maps)

Arachnos (Heavy on -End, KB/KD, mezzes, and to boot the robots start really showing up in force here with high S/L resistance)

Tell me again how the Freakshow are not standard for their level coverage. They're somewhat below average, frankly, but it's tempered by the equal fact that they're somewhat harder to both put down and keep down. More then enough to get at least a 1.0 experience scale modifier, IMO.

EDIT: Removed a footnote that became obsolete (and inaccurate) with how my train of thought and research went. Still, you encounter all of these groups well before 40, and as they stack up levels they get more and more tricks. Honorable mentions go to the Carnival of Shadows and Malta/Knives of Artemis, who also start showing up at the tail end of 40. Almost all (with the exception of I do believe Crey and the Cimeroran Traitors) show up at roughly 'full strength' by the time you hit 30-35.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
hey... everyone in here dumping on Xyzyx for his statement...

Please carry on.

As to the change in XP, it's been a long time coming. No surprise there.
True enough Bill. I am never surprised at nerfs or changes at this game anymore. It's not a question of why anymore as to WHEN.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
I just don't understand the mentality of those that do.
It's not rocket science...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
Protip:

Not everyone is you.


I don't pay much attention to numbers, but if an enemy is extra annoying, or under-rewarding for the amount of effort they take to defeat, I'm going to choose a different path when possible.

So will a lot of other people.
I'm not sure what makes this position so difficult for some people to understand.

Example. Project Dragonfly, my Ninja Blade/ EA Stalker avoided Freakshow whenever possible. Same thing with Nemean, my Claws/ Regen Stalker. Same reason for both characters. Tanks still have more than 50% of their health after BU+AS. That's a lot of scrapping to hack through without crits. In fact, if it weren't for the Stalker tweaks, I think I'd have pulled my hair out doing it with Claws.

In the same amount of time, either character could have been mowing through Carnies, Council, or hell even CoT. It just didnt make sense for those toons to waste time trying to stab what is essentially a big metal bulkhead.

Other characters of course experienced different results. But the core principle of my argument is this; it is very much a common and understandable position that one would seek only to play the game in a way that is most optimal for one's abilities.

If that means avoiding enemies that are just as hard or harder, but give less rewards than other options, then that is to be expected, and is in no way an oddity.


Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriFoxfirega View Post
Again, at half-hitpoints, and without Dull Pain in the way. Though, I'm not sure if it's 50% health or only 30%. It's not like it takes a whole lot of additional effort, unless you were already struggling to take them out, or a Boss comes back up.
They rez at full health and full end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley View Post
With my FF/Elec Defender where *I* have endurance drain, good defense and status resistance, yes, they are a snap for me. Repulsion Bomb + Ball Lightning + Short Circuit, PFF for about two-five seconds and then do it again. BOOM, all dead but the boss, who is completely drained of endurance.

Mooks however have higher reistences to most types of damage, they go down MUCH slower for me.
They're weak against energy damage, and you don't have to worry about status effects, really, with the big bubble.

They're aren't hard, like the majority of things in game aren't hard, but they give my scrappers headaches because of the S/L resists. Both my scrappers are all lethal damage. ALL lethal. I can't really solo a tank boss on my normal diff. Or if I feel like slogging through it, I have to pop reds or really hope my personal +dam powers cycle fast enough, just because it's that resisted.

I don't mind them getting dropped to 1.0, if they're dropping the xp, but .8 would mean I flat out avoid them at all times on my scrappers, just because the risk vs reward would never be worth it.

 

Posted

Serious question, Blood Spectre:

How often are you encountering Bosses in a situation that is going to make a significant difference in your ability to chew through encounters?

I'm specifically talking of solo play, as in a group that's well put together that 50% life loss is going to make it that much easier for everyone else to drop.

(DISCLAIMER: This is really a serious question. They did tweak the spawn code recently [right? Or am I crazy?] so that bosses spawn more often at even difficulties. But even then...)